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Old 01-03-2018, 10:45 AM   #121
Andrew NDB
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Are the Turtles just basically normal human teenagers and should they be gauged as such?

Of course not, that's dumb. That's always been dumb. Every time I hear that (whether it's from creators or fans), this expectation of "I really want the Turtles to act like teenagers," it's just ill-thought out and dumb, dumb, dumb.

Did the Turtles spend their adolescence lusting after a bunch of human ladies?

No, not really. They were probably too busy training day in, day out to one day kill Oroku Saki. Again, these aren't normal human teenagers going to high school and taking Suzie to the prom or playing after school sports... that's a dumb expectation. None of the formative things growing up that happen to normal human teenagers would have ever happened to the TMNT. The closest example would be... I dunno, find like some monastic brothers who were home-schooled all of their adolescence and teenager years and not allowed to ever leave the house.

Would the Turtles ever be attracted to females?

Sure. There's plenty of examples of that.

But surely they'd be attracted to human females?

Not really. And despite the "Leonardo gets with Radical in the future" thing that slipped through the cracks when Laird was not at the helm and temporarily not doing approvals, there was always a very hard line from the TMNT creators about "The TMNT do NOT bang or lust after humans." Mikey saying, "Whatta babe!" to someone he sees on the TV is one thing, actively going after and pursuing romantic and/or sexual relationships with them is quite another.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:06 AM   #122
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That's some nice fanon you've got there.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:24 AM   #123
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I'm with Plastron on this.

Relationships are a normal, typical part of growing up and the human experience. Most versions of TMNT demonstrate the Turtles wishing they could have a more normal, human experience. It's also quite relatable.

Just because most of the examples in TMNT are abysmal or lazy writing tropes (Irma + love potion, Donnie + April, et al) doesn't mean that real serious stories couldn't explore the concept very well.

I just don't expect it to ever happen in a way that won't irritate me.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:41 PM   #124
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Usually, too many shows rely on romance for plot points/arcs, and usually, they tend to fail spectacularly, either through unfortunate circumstances/implications and/or using too much time/episodes that could be focused on developing characters, world-building, story-lines, etc.
........
Just view the Apriltello/Capril love triangle plot-line (2k12 TMNT) as an example. It was riddled with unpleasant messages/implications (Girls are prizes that should be oogled/ fought over. Just keep pressuring them until they say yes.) Not to mention, it had the unintended of taking up to much time that could've been focused on more important aspects of the show.
........
Romantic plot-lines can also raise the issue of character derailment, either through out-of-character moments and/or regressing character development. For Leonardo, his ship tease with Karai made it feel like his character had regressed (in my opinion). He would act really arrogant around her. It always seemed to bother me.

........
It never seems that female characters can/could develop separately from the male characters, let alone stay single. It always seems that they have to revolve around said male characters, by being the target of their affections or even dating them. Not only does it negatively affect female characters, but it would also basically ruin the male characters as well.

Well, I have had this stuff turn the last season of one of my other favorite shows to complete ass (Samurai Jack) so I can totally understand. Especially when it's the creator (at a much, much later stage -think years) warps the older established characters' personalities to fit it in, and breaks known universe laws of the show to fit it in. If the forced romance and women as objects pisses you off, one thing they did in this last season of this show was have an infectious substance (Aku's essence) react differently to men then it does women, without any good in-show explanation of why.
It infected Jack once and almost turned him into an Aku demon, it was used by Aku to turn some of Jack's male allies into more little Aku demons during on of the very last fights, but a crazy woman voluntarily drinks a whole friggen bowl of the stuff... and all it does is make her pregnant. No 'equal' horrific demonic transformation like the men get, no siree, you'll just be a brood sow to get pregnant instead and pop out a bunch of babies, because that's what women 'are' and who wants to 'ruin' what might have been a hot screwable woman by making her into an ugly demoness? As such, it's always for a woman a preservation of her sexiness, because who wants to see an Aku demon with breasts? Naturally this double standard is defended by the hardcore shippers, because it resulted in the production of the love interest Jack falls in love with, no matter that she herself is also reduced to an object, Jack 'deserves' her because it makes him happy.

As you can tell, I'm still royally steamed by it. Your description of the romance thing is very similar to what I've seen on this other show, because it tends to not only radiate out from romance, but how some writers (and creators) tend to think of women as. Basically slaves to romance, and then later a mere vessel for pregnancy.

I alo had to mention that women characters aren't just forced into male-female relationships, they will force them into lesbian relationships too if they are feeling 'progressive.' It's as if a single female is creative Kryptonite, and the writers will rush to pair her off with anyone (or anything!) before she sucks all of the creative life out of the room, because God forbid she has anything major in her life or other interests that don't involve relationships or romance. I don't mind romance in some cases, but 80% of the other times it's just blatant fan service or a ratings grab if the show looks to be dying.



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But surely they'd be attracted to human females?
But don't you know Andy, that would sink a thousand fan ships if they were not? Ever notice the collective hissing and mental gymnastics whenever anyone mentions the word 'bestiality?'

Now notice people will give them almost all of the other features of turtles, but yet their *ahem* reproductive organs are somehow almost always exempt. It's also automatically assumed that they will like human females, but yet nothing is ever considered that they could sigh longingly at anthropomorphized female turtle drawings someone might make, or what they might find 'sexy' is stuff you would not normally see on a human woman (but would find on a female turtle.) No it's always has to be human women for some reason, despite female turtles being the more logical choice, and the only ones that could safely withstand their 'amorous affections.'

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Old 01-03-2018, 01:59 PM   #125
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Now notice people will give them almost all of the other features of turtles, but yet their *ahem* reproductive organs are somehow almost always exempt. It's also automatically assumed that they will like human females, but yet nothing is ever considered that they could sigh longingly at anthropomorphized female turtle drawings someone might make, or what they might find 'sexy' is stuff you would not normally see on a human woman (but would find on a female turtle.) No it's always has to be human women for some reason, despite female turtles being the more logical choice, and the only ones that could safely withstand their 'amorous affections.'
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:14 PM   #126
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Love this community... I mean, how it can go from "Look, a sketch of the next April!" to once again discussing the TMNT's potential private lives (and parts) is just...

Not that I don't find this discussion amusing every time.
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:17 PM   #127
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But don't you know Andy, that would sink a thousand fan ships if they were not? Ever notice the collective hissing and mental gymnastics whenever anyone mentions the word 'bestiality?'

Now notice people will give them almost all of the other features of turtles, but yet their *ahem* reproductive organs are somehow almost always exempt. It's also automatically assumed that they will like human females, but yet nothing is ever considered that they could sigh longingly at anthropomorphized female turtle drawings someone might make, or what they might find 'sexy' is stuff you would not normally see on a human woman (but would find on a female turtle.) No it's always has to be human women for some reason, despite female turtles being the more logical choice, and the only ones that could safely withstand their 'amorous affections.'
I think you hit the nail right smack on the head.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:47 PM   #128
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I don't want to encourage a trip to the disintegration unit for this thread so I'll just lightly point out that they are not regular turtles so far as what they are attracted to goes and from the kids show point some other things aren't going to be confirmed, nor will relationships go past a kiss at the very most.

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Old 01-03-2018, 03:55 PM   #129
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It is inevitable that this thread be disintegrated.

I wonder when the first look at any other characters will happen...
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:56 PM   #130
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Mhmm... All a matter of preference and perspective on the TMNT, and I'm sure for any argument most could try to find reasons to "prove" why they're the one who is right. Be it cannon, speculation that might make sense, comparatives with regular turtles in nature (or why the TMNT might drastically differ)...



But anyway... How 'bout that April?

I kinda hope she's got at least one parent, maybe a mom, that we see now and then.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:04 PM   #131
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Now notice people will give them almost all of the other features of turtles, but yet their *ahem* reproductive organs are somehow almost always exempt.
Is now a bad time to point out duck anatomy and the fact that Disney has been drawing cartoon versions sans pants for decades?
(duck sexuality is...something.)

?

I can find that case study of the female chimpanzee raised as a human child and as a result only found human males attractive, if ya'll really want me to.

I'm not a No Romo person, but I will say that I'll take the No Romo side of things if presented with creators incapable of writing female characters as anything BUT a love interest.
Because that sort of thing is only really indicative of illustrating just how bad a writer is at their job.

In conclusion:
Spoiler:

Blurry image taken from Mirage, Vol 1, Issue 44.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:09 PM   #132
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Interesting that Raph is eating pizza in that Mirage issue, they eat pizza in Mirage more often than people remember.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:59 PM   #133
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Oh sweet baby Jiminy Cricket, where can I get a pizza that has steam coming off it like that . That looks magnificent.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:16 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
Is now a bad time to point out duck anatomy and the fact that Disney has been drawing cartoon versions sans pants for decades?
(duck sexuality is...something.)

?

I can find that case study of the female chimpanzee raised as a human child and as a result only found human males attractive, if ya'll really want me to.

I'm not a No Romo person, but I will say that I'll take the No Romo side of things if presented with creators incapable of writing female characters as anything BUT a love interest.
Because that sort of thing is only really indicative of illustrating just how bad a writer is at their job.

In conclusion:
Spoiler:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSptpSXXkAAcum5.jpg
Blurry image taken from Mirage, Vol 1, Issue 44.
Was she anything like Oliver? There was an interesting case of a chimp with amorous interest in humans if ever there was one. He was even billed for a long time as a living "missing link" of sorts.

As for ducks, that particular anatomic detail has always been a bit disturbing to me. Especially in terms of Disney (or Loony Toons) characters....

And I have been around Deviant Art and the fan-fic community long enough to know that MANY fans who "ship" the TMNT with humans often do so while fully acknowledging their physical differences. And are often pretty descriptive of them too. Sometimes said differences are a major plot-point or obstacle to the relationship. Those who dismiss such romantic relationships are almost always thinking very narrowly regarding the definition of romantic love, or how it is expressed or experienced. TMNT would no doubt define it very differently than the typical human would, simply due to their unique circumstances. In other words, they would find ways to adapt and make it work. If Raph can have a long term relationship with Ninjara in Archie, why not with a human too? Leo and Radical seemed to work out ok, if that issue is to be believed.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:33 PM   #135
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As for ducks, that particular anatomic detail has always been a bit disturbing to me. Especially in terms of Disney (or Loony Toons) characters....
It's downright...screwy, if you ask me.
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[TMNT 1990 director Steve] Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:39 PM   #136
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So, ... I wonder if Casey will be in his senior years.

That would be a nice change.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:13 PM   #137
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So, ... I wonder if Casey will be in his senior years.

That would be a nice change.
I don't think thats its likely for this series but I would be welcoming of the change.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:20 PM   #138
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So, ... I wonder if Casey will be in his senior years.

That would be a nice change.
Yeah. Homless pregnant teenager April and in relationship with ex-hokeyplayer vigilante 40ies Casey... on Nickelodeon in a comedic kid's show!
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:47 PM   #139
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Well back on topic.....

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From Nick Designer's Twitter. My source confirms that this is almost the final version.

Its a little preemptive to judge a design a character from a single design sketch.

I am not to fond of the idea of "Black-Washing" / Changing a characters ethnicity. Like they did with Baxter in the 87' series. Or what they tried to do with the Platinum Dunes series with shredder.

If I didn't know this was a April design I would think it was a design for Angel....

I really don't have high expectations for this April or this show. I didn't Like April from the previous serious that much and was drastically different from any previous incarnation. At this point I think they should create a new character to fit what they are going for.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:52 PM   #140
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Now my 50 cents to the whole romance-debate. I don't think that any love-relationship would happen in the new show, but yes crushes will definitely happen.
It's not because the turtles are teenagers. It's because the AUDIENCE is.
It will be a kid's show so there will be no real relationship. Why? Because sexuality is taboo in a kid's show.
But to have crushes is a very important theme in the life of every kid, and a kid's show that is depicting interactions between characters can't do not to react on that in a way.
That's it.

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