Things the FW series doesn't get enough credit for?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Multi-coloured bandanas. I don't know if it deserves any credit for that, it's just something we take for granted.

That was actually the Playmates line. The 1987 cartoon just made it definitive and carried it into being every version staple.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

That was actually the Playmates line. The 1987 cartoon just made it definitive and carried it into being every version staple.

But the original action figures weren't released until June 1988.

https://ew.com/article/1990/03/30/te...atre-near-you/

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I just find it rather silly when people try way too hard looking for depth in this or any show that isn't there by design.

I guess it's like all those Avengers Endgame theories. They're made by fans who are deeply interested in something therefore they put more thought into something than the writers intended. I never said the FW episodes have huge levels of complexity but the mixture of genres and elements allow it a depth some other cartoons from that period didn't have. Also on your point in the last post you made about putting the 'toys' away as an adult the Mirage TMNT comics was originally targeting teens so I guess that would mean I would have to let go of every iteration targeting that demographic as well, meaning TMNT as a whole.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Agreed. I never watched Thundercats, but the Fred Wolf toon was one of my favourite shows growing up. Was the best show on the Den (Irish children’s tv strand) imo. I still like it, but I can acknowledge too that a lot of it hasn’t aged well, even though some of the humour went over my head as a kid.

I can see problems with the Fred Wolf series but I will defend it in areas where I think it's good if not great.

Originally Posted by Wesley

I agree with mostly everything Voltron said. If it wasn’t for the FW series, most of us probably would never have become big TMNT fans in the first place.

I mean I still stand by that it was one of the better written/better handled cartoon shows of the era. Fred Wolf says in the Turtles documentary back in 2014 that he wanted the series to be more than just a toy commercial and he succeeded if you compare the series to GI Joe and Transformers which were limited and controlled by the toy company. Fred Wolf Films were fairly free in this regard which is why there is that disconnect with the toys. The lack of reliance on the toys allows better writing. Certainly TMNT isn't the best written show of the 80s but it's nowhere near the worst. Not sure if people understand this. A lot of the comments in praise of the series are mostly surface level which as I said before is kind of a sad legacy to leave behind.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I guess it's like all those Avengers Endgame theories. They're made by fans who are deeply interested in something therefore they put more thought into something than the writers intended.

On this I completely agree. Much has been written and said by fanboys trying to make the movie's plot make sense, but it ultimately does not. The writers and directors completely disagree about the film's "rules" for time travel, and every explanation any of them tries to give completely contradicts the others, to the point where there really is NO point in trying to explain it beyond saying, "It's just a silly movie and it's all just for fun, just roll with it and try not to think."

In and of itself, that's fine, kinda. I hate movies like that, but I'm also often accused of thinking too much. But if something wants to be complete nonsense and people are in turn entertained by complete nonsense, that's entirely their prerogative. I simply find it silly when people go out of their way to try and reconcile the irreconcilable because it makes them feel smarter, or like the thing they like is so much more intelligent and important than it really is.

"Endgame" is one example, Fred Wolf TMNT is another. Some things are simply "Entertaining Nonsense" and that's that. No need for logical gymnastics to try and explain things that really weren't designed to be put under such scrutiny in the first place. Just have fun with it or don't. Simple.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I mean I still stand by that it was one of the better written/better handled cartoon shows of the era.

Which is the most well-written US-American cartoon between 1983 (Masters of the Universe launches a new era of cartoons) and 1992 (debut of the Animated Batman Series).

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I can see problems with the Fred Wolf series but I will defend it in areas where I think it's good if not great.

I mean I still stand by that it was one of the better written/better handled cartoon shows of the era. Fred Wolf says in the Turtles documentary back in 2014 that he wanted the series to be more than just a toy commercial and he succeeded if you compare the series to GI Joe and Transformers which were limited and controlled by the toy company. Fred Wolf Films were fairly free in this regard which is why there is that disconnect with the toys. The lack of reliance on the toys allows better writing. Certainly TMNT isn't the best written show of the 80s but it's nowhere near the worst. Not sure if people understand this. A lot of the comments in praise of the series are mostly surface level which as I said before is kind of a sad legacy to leave behind.

I haven’t watched that Turtles documentary, but I agree with mostly everything you said. One other thing the FW series doesn’t get credit for is the fact that it got an ending and a good one to boot imo, considering a lot of shows never get closure.

I also think the FW series had interesting one-shot characters such as Shreeka and Chronos. Unpopular opinion: I liked Lord Dregg and he’s still one of my favourite TMNT villains. He was very cunning, especially in season 10 when he was one step ahead of the Turtles and Shredder/Krang most of the time. Him turning the city against the TMNT in season 9 did get old after a few episodes, though.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Unpopular opinion: I liked Lord Dregg and he’s still one of my favourite TMNT villains.

Is Dregg really that unpopular?

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Is Dregg really that unpopular?

I assumed he was at least at the time he was introduced.

[Prowler]

Dregg isn't that unpopular. He was voiced by the late great Tony Jay and even was brought back in the Nick toon, wasn't he?

Carter is a lot less popular. I feel like most TMNT fans dislike him or don't care about seeing him in any future TMNT versions. He seems to be a quite forgotten character for someone who was in like 13 episodes, more episodes than Leatherhead and Casey Jones

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

He seems to be a quite forgotten character for someone who was in like 13 episodes, more episodes than Leatherhead and Casey Jones

Even more than Rat King who appeared in 10 episodes, and General Traag who appeared in 12.

And despite appearing less, the side characters during the main seasons (Baxter, Casey, Leatherhead, Rat King, Traag, and Slash), are far more memorable than the new characters introduced in Red Sky.

Aside from Dregg himself, everyone else I thought was pretty forgettable (Mung, Carter, Hi-Tech etc.)

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Even more than Rat King who appeared in 10 episodes, and General Traag who appeared in 12.

And despite appearing less, the side characters during the main seasons (Baxter, Casey, Leatherhead, Rat King, Traag, and Slash), are far more memorable than the new characters introduced in Red Sky.

Aside from Dregg himself, everyone else I thought was pretty forgettable (Mung, Carter, Hi-Tech etc.)

Tbh the Red Sky seasons were much less popular than the others. So a lot less people watched those episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if the Red Sky seasons didn't air in a lot of countries.

When people think of the FW series they think of its first 3 or 4 seasons only.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Dregg isn't that unpopular. He was voiced by the late great Tony Jay and even was brought back in the Nick toon, wasn't he?

Carter is a lot less popular. I feel like most TMNT fans dislike him or don't care about seeing him in any future TMNT versions. He seems to be a quite forgotten character for someone who was in like 13 episodes, more episodes than Leatherhead and Casey Jones

Agreed. I’m indifferent to Carter myself.

Originally Posted by Prowler

Tbh the Red Sky seasons were much less popular than the others. So a lot less people watched those episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if the Red Sky seasons didn't air in a lot of countries.

When people think of the FW series they think of its first 3 or 4 seasons only.

True. I think Ireland was one of the few countries to air Red Sky, though I didn’t know seasons 9 and 10 even existed until mid 1998 (they were first shown on Rte Two along with Turtle Trek at that time).

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Agreed. I’m indifferent to Carter myself.



True. I think Ireland was one of the few countries to air Red Sky, even though seasons 9 and 10 even existed until mid 1998 (they were first shown on Rte Two along with Turtle Trek at that time).

I watched the reruns back in 2003 or 2004. But I'm not sure if they aired originally back in 1994-1996 or not. I was too young to remember the FW when it was still around. Luckily the FW series reran here often from the late 90s to the mid-2000s. And a few years ago the 2k3 series was rerunning on TV.

[Sobble]

America only got reruns for FW with seasons 8 9 and 10 from 1996-1997 according to wikapedia

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Sobble

America only got reruns for FW with seasons 8 9 and 10 from 1996-1997 according to wikapedia

That would accurate. As of Labor Day 1997 it was pulled from both CBS and USA's Cartoon Express blovk. It has yet to reappear anywhere in the United States.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I wouldn't be surprised if the Red Sky seasons didn't air in a lot of countries.

TMNT had already been taken off air past-season 5 in Sweden. With a much smaller market, the franchise delined much earlier.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Leo656

On this I completely agree. Much has been written and said by fanboys trying to make the movie's plot make sense, but it ultimately does not. The writers and directors completely disagree about the film's "rules" for time travel, and every explanation any of them tries to give completely contradicts the others, to the point where there really is NO point in trying to explain it beyond saying, "It's just a silly movie and it's all just for fun, just roll with it and try not to think."

Not quite. Endgame specifically states time travel seen in other TV and films is nonsense and explains why. The writers/directors themselves explained some of the plot inconsistencies so what you say doesn't add up here because they meant for it to make some kind of sense even when it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Wesley

I haven’t watched that Turtles documentary, but I agree with mostly everything you said. One other thing the FW series doesn’t get credit for is the fact that it got an ending and a good one to boot imo, considering a lot of shows never get closure.

That is definitely one of the main differences between cartoon shows of the 80s and of the 90s/today. I think that's definitely one advantage today's cartoon shows have. I guess syndicated cartoons back in the 80s made renewal more confusing which is why many were left open. D & D even had a last episode written but it wasn't made due to the studio not wanting to put up the cost of finishing the series leaving Adam, Eric, Sheila and co still stuck in that land forever.

Originally Posted by Prowler

Carter is a lot less popular. I feel like most TMNT fans dislike him or don't care about seeing him in any future TMNT versions.

According to David Wise Carter was a network idea, not his own idea. Probably one of the few times Wise hasn't taken credit for something.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Which is the most well-written US-American cartoon between 1983 (Masters of the Universe launches a new era of cartoons) and 1992 (debut of the Animated Batman Series).

I can think of other examples like the early seasons of The Real Ghostbusters and most of DuckTales, two examples I'd put in my A tier category of quality. I'm sure there's more. FW TMNT was probably B-tier while most 80s cartoons (like most today) fit within C-tier or D-tier.

[Wesley]

The OT was maybe ahead of its time with the pop culture references. For example, the monster in Splinter No More had a HP Lovecraft-like vibe to it.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Wesley

The OT was maybe ahead of its time with the pop culture references. For example, the monster in Splinter No More had a HP Lovecraft-like vibe to it.

How does that denote it being ahead of its time? Like, at all?

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

How does that denote it being ahead of its time? Like, at all?

I think he probably means the TMNT cartoon referenced it "before it was cool."