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Old 08-31-2019, 09:16 PM   #21
CyberCubed
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Assuming Joker doesn't die or something by the end of the movie, I'm going to headcanon this as a prequel and origin story to Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight. So that way we can see this Joker go up against Batman.

Yes I know it doesn't really fit, but who cares.
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Old 08-31-2019, 09:27 PM   #22
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Assuming Joker doesn't die or something by the end of the movie, I'm going to headcanon this as a prequel and origin story to Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight. So that way we can see this Joker go up against Batman.

Yes I know it doesn't really fit, but who cares.
No, it makes me no sense, but whatever makes you feel better . My mind does strange things to justify Terrance Howard turning into Don Cheadle in the MCU films.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:44 PM   #23
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Some people are being ridiculous with this film, I did read the left crazies talking about how the movie was glorifying incels so they were likely doing damage control and also likely censoring some scenes from the movie and now it's the right crazies saying that it's an "important" movie, jeeze, can someone make a movie nowadays without either of the crazies influencing the product into something it's not?



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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Assuming Joker doesn't die or something by the end of the movie, I'm going to headcanon this as a prequel and origin story to Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight. So that way we can see this Joker go up against Batman.

Yes I know it doesn't really fit, but who cares.
I'm sure if this movie is successful we'll either see a movie with the new Batman or even an entirely different Batman. Hell I'm sure we'll see Harley interact with this Joker as well. The DCEU is dead and WB is doing their animated strategy of convoluted continuity of yes but not strategy.

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You mean 4. Because of Cesar Romero. The original Joker.
He wasn't a live action joker in my lifetime for what it's worth.

Also as far as Jared Leto, I agree he's a horrible Joker but at the very least I'll give him that he interpreted a very different Joker from Ledger which became the "defacto" Joker to people.
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:35 PM   #24
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Some people are being ridiculous with this film, I did read the left crazies talking about how the movie was glorifying incels so they were likely doing damage control and also likely censoring some scenes from the movie and now it's the right crazies saying that it's an "important" movie, jeeze, can someone make a movie nowadays without either of the crazies influencing the product into something it's not?
Agreed 100%
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:22 PM   #25
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So... are any of these reviewers givng it these rave reviews actual comic fans... like have they ever picked up a comic book in their lives, or just kinda get a vague idea of the Joker's existence since he's kinda mainstream.

Just wondering.
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:26 PM   #26
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Some people are being ridiculous with this film, I did read the left crazies talking about how the movie was glorifying incels so they were likely doing damage control and also likely censoring some scenes from the movie and now it's the right crazies saying that it's an "important" movie, jeeze, can someone make a movie nowadays without either of the crazies influencing the product into something it's not?
I've heard the take that this movie implies that poor should violently rebel against the rich. And every time it was in very excited tone.

If the "incel take" is just retarded, than "rebel against rich" is dangerous.
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:27 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
So... are any of these reviewers givng it these rave reviews actual comic fans... like have they ever picked up a comic book in their lives, or just kinda get a vague idea of the Joker's existence since he's kinda mainstream.

Just wondering.
Some are, some aren't. There are a lot of reviews out there.

What makes you wonder? What would the implication be?

For what it's worth, I've been reading Joker comics for 25 years. Love when he is written by Moore, Morrison, or Miller. I'm a diehard comic book fan, and I'll probably be raving right alongside those reviews by the time I see it.

Anything is possible, but all signs point to me loving it.

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Old 09-01-2019, 03:46 PM   #28
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Some are, some aren't. There are a lot of reviews out there.

What makes you wonder? What would the implication be?

For what it's worth, I've been reading Joker comics for 25 years. Love when he is written by Moore, Morrison, or Miller. I'm a diehard comic book fan, and I'll probably be raving right alongside those reviews by the time I see it.

Anything is possible, but all signs point to me loving it.
IDK, I just never saw Joker as a rob from the rich, give to the poor kinda guy.

This whole thing about getting people to wear clown masks and form a mob mentality, I at least hope when all is said and done, he thanks them all by unleashing the laughing gas on them.
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:51 PM   #29
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IDK, I just never saw Joker as a rob from the rich, give to the poor kinda guy.

This whole thing about getting people to wear clown masks and form a mob mentality, I at least hope when all is said and done, he thanks them all by unleashing the laughing gas on them.
So the idea is that the reviewers are able to appreciate the film because they aren't comic fans? Idk seems pretty flimsy to me, because I'm a fan of the comics and I think it looks fantastic.

It's clearly not what you want from a Joker movie, at least if you're going to come to a conclusion before seeing the film, but don't forget how flexible of a character this has always been. I don't think there's a correlation between positive reviews and lack of comic book fandom.
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Old 09-01-2019, 04:14 PM   #30
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So the idea is that the reviewers are able to appreciate the film because they aren't comic fans? Idk seems pretty flimsy to me, because I'm a fan of the comics and I think it looks fantastic.

It's clearly not what you want from a Joker movie, at least if you're going to come to a conclusion before seeing the film, but don't forget how flexible of a character this has always been. I don't think there's a correlation between positive reviews and lack of comic book fandom.
I'm sure Joker has never looked like a Party City version of himself.
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Old 09-01-2019, 04:29 PM   #31
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I'm sure Joker has never looked like a Party City version of himself.
Not following. The character has definitely looked like a "party city version of himself" lol. Ceaser Romero, for one.

But I was asking if the reviewers have to be comic book fans for their opinions to be valid, but I suppose it was rhetorical, because I know the answer is actually "no."

Sorry you dont like the makeup though. I think it looks great.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:02 PM   #32
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And as Andrew predicted, it is indeed an "Important Political Movie", right down to Joker's antics inspiring the common rabble to don clown masks and carry "Kill The Rich!" signs.
It's a cliche tactic that always works. And a lot of people eat it up. People who are educated and have aspirations and get to know successful people don't have this mindset - whether they are having money troubles or not.

It's just another way to embrace counter culture and it works - people who haven't grown up yet eat that **** up and then people who become culture dwellers doing nothing with their lives continue their subscription to this as a way to cope.

Most normally operating people know that it's just a trope and often that the "evil rich" messages aren't true.

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We got 3 great live-action Jokers in our lifetimes.

Jack Nicholson as Joker '89, Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight in 2008, and now Joaquin Phoenix in 2019.
I am not hyped for this movie at all, but I really liked this post. Perspective! -thumb's up-

On a side note for anyone here that subscribes to the "evil rich" thing - then you are a fool for seeing this movie if you do because you are being manipulated by a large group of extremely rich people who are taking your money to see their movie while they talk down to you. On that note, I am not rich basically at all.

On the other hand if you are seeing this movie and don't give a crap about the context, and are just seeing it for a few hours of popcorn and escapism, then that's cool too.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:45 PM   #33
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No one is actually seeing this for political reasons or out of some sort of devotion to an ideal.

It's just the radicals, on both sides, finding another thing to complain about. In this case, a movie they have not seen.
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Old 09-02-2019, 12:51 AM   #34
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Not following. The character has definitely looked like a "party city version of himself" lol. Ceaser Romero, for one.

But I was asking if the reviewers have to be comic book fans for their opinions to be valid, but I suppose it was rhetorical, because I know the answer is actually "no."

Sorry you dont like the makeup though. I think it looks great.
Naw, at the time Cesar Romero was pretty much the Joker brought to life. They didn't give him weird wacked-out make up or whatever that didn't match the comics.

IDK, it just feels weird taking a character that well-known and making him so different he's Joker in name only.

Leto was bad, but at least he was barely in the movie and the movie wasn't named after him.

I enjoyed the Crow and the Mask and while the Crow was 80% or so percent faithful to the comics, the Mask was not. But they both had the benefit of being unknown indie characters that didn't become mainstream until the movies came out.

The Joker doesn't have that benefit. You can't get away with making some weird-ass version of him and then 10 years later make some sort of 'did you know the Joker in the comics has permanent white skin?' unknown Joker facts video or whatever. He's just too well-known to mess with IMO.

And to top it off, people eat it up. I say those people that do have lost their 'not faithful to the comics' card the next time some other comic book movie comes out and bombs.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:50 AM   #35
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Double post

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Old 09-02-2019, 07:55 AM   #36
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Naw, at the time Cesar Romero was pretty much the Joker brought to life. They didn't give him weird wacked-out make up or whatever that didn't match the comics.

IDK, it just feels weird taking a character that well-known and making him so different he's Joker in name only.

Leto was bad, but at least he was barely in the movie and the movie wasn't named after him.

I enjoyed the Crow and the Mask and while the Crow was 80% or so percent faithful to the comics, the Mask was not. But they both had the benefit of being unknown indie characters that didn't become mainstream until the movies came out.

The Joker doesn't have that benefit. You can't get away with making some weird-ass version of him and then 10 years later make some sort of 'did you know the Joker in the comics has permanent white skin?' unknown Joker facts video or whatever. He's just too well-known to mess with IMO.

And to top it off, people eat it up. I say those people that do have lost their 'not faithful to the comics' card the next time some other comic book movie comes out and bombs.
This film has a world-renowned actor, more creative freedom than any other comic book film out there, and is recieving Oscar Buzz, but you are upset about the makeup not being accurate. I'm just glad we have dissimilar taste.

So you don't like Heath Ledger's Joker either?
He also had normal skin & hair, unlike the comics.
He didn't have the comedian-related origin from the comics, which this new film does faithfully adhere to.
Also, if we are concerned with, arguably, trivial relations to the comic book character, Heath's Joker had scars, unlike Joaquin's version and the version from the comics. In many ways, the new version is more reverent to the comic books than Heath's. Not that it really matters. I love Heath's Joker, by the way.

I rather a story take creative liberty than be 100% devoted to someone else's comic book, if it means they reach the heights this film appears to reach. Being a complete slave to the material is so....rote.

And at the end of the day, why are you so sure it is unfaithful to the comics? There is the psychosis, the danger, the clown make-up, the charisma, the unpredictability. Any fan could tell you this is a Joker film, by the trailer, whether the films title is there or not.

So that combined with the fact that we havent even seen this film , just makes me puzzled by your strict apprehension to this film and devotion to the idea that it is unfaithful/unworthy. All due respect though.

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Old 09-02-2019, 09:40 AM   #37
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Guys, we've already had this discussion and you all said it was impossible to discuss this without it getting political.

Against my better judgment, I'll let this go so long as people remain civil.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:50 AM   #38
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This film has a world-renowned actor, more creative freedom than any other comic book film out there, and is recieving Oscar Buzz, but you are upset about the makeup not being accurate. I'm just glad we have dissimilar taste.

So you don't like Heath Ledger's Joker either?
He also had normal skin & hair, unlike the comics.
He didn't have the comedian-related origin from the comics, which this new film does faithfully adhere to.
Also, if we are concerned with, arguably, trivial relations to the comic book character, Heath's Joker had scars, unlike Joaquin's version and the version from the comics. In many ways, the new version is more reverent to the comic books than Heath's. Not that it really matters. I love Heath's Joker, by the way.

I rather a story take creative liberty than be 100% devoted to someone else's comic book, if it means they reach the heights this film appears to reach. Being a complete slave to the material is so....rote.

And at the end of the day, why are you so sure it is unfaithful to the comics? There is the psychosis, the danger, the clown make-up, the charisma, the unpredictability. Any fan could tell you this is a Joker film, by the trailer, whether the films title is there or not.

You mean... besides the fact that the people behind the film said it will have 'nothing to do with the comics'?

Ledger's Joker was a bit different. The Nolan trilogy tried so hard to somehow make Batman work in the real world. In fact The Dark Knight was more of a crime drama rather than a comic book movie and kept everything so grounded, the only cartoonish thing was the guy running around in the batsuit. They had to adapt Joker into that kind of movie, the comic book one would have been too cartoony in Nolan's world.

But that was a sequel, with rules established from a previous movie. This is a whole new thing. They could have done something more comic accurate but they went with the usual 'no, my version is better' mindset. It almost comes off as some sort of ' random guy in clown make-up goes crazy' type movie, they didn't have faith in their characer, so hey let's slap the Joker label on it and people will eat it up.

So far, it's working.

I mean, would people have cared is this was just called 'The Clown' or 'Look Who's Laughing Now' or whatever?
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:11 PM   #39
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You mean... besides the fact that the people behind the film said it will have 'nothing to do with the comics'?

Ledger's Joker was a bit different. The Nolan trilogy tried so hard to somehow make Batman work in the real world. In fact The Dark Knight was more of a crime drama rather than a comic book movie and kept everything so grounded, the only cartoonish thing was the guy running around in the batsuit. They had to adapt Joker into that kind of movie, the comic book one would have been too cartoony in Nolan's world.

But that was a sequel, with rules established from a previous movie. This is a whole new thing. They could have done something more comic accurate but they went with the usual 'no, my version is better' mindset. It almost comes off as some sort of ' random guy in clown make-up goes crazy' type movie, they didn't have faith in their characer, so hey let's slap the Joker label on it and people will eat it up.

So far, it's working.

I mean, would people have cared is this was just called 'The Clown' or 'Look Who's Laughing Now' or whatever?
I would have cared to see this film under another name, sure - great cast, creative freedom, exciting critical reception. But I care more, because I can see elements of The Joker in it. It doesn't feel like too strong of a left turn to me...at all.
Like I said, all the elements that are essential to the Joker, in my mind, are loud and clear in the trailer.
I don't need him to take an acid bath in order to become The Joker anymore than I need a bat to physically crash through Bruce Wayne's window, as the catalyst to him taking on the theme of a bat. It's just not essential to the character, for me. People will differ on whatis essential to the character - even in the comics, Bob Kane's Joker is not Frank Miller's Joker is not Grant Morrison's joker - but it doesn't make it necessarily right or wrong.

I respect your reasons for excusing how different Heath's joker was, but they don't hold water for me. Heath's joker was different and fit the world they had envisioned, yes. The results were fantastic! If the same equation happens here, that's a wonderful thing, in my eyes.

If it makes you feel better, Todd Phillip's recently name dropped The Killing Joke when discussing his influences for the film. Other reviewers have said there are elements of the comic in there as well. I really think you could be jumping to conclusions. I mean, I can understand why, if that is the case, based on the press tour. They are being loud and clear that this film is "it's own thing", but they have also referenced the comics as an influence, and more importantly, you can see it in the trailers.

That's aside from the fact that we disagree on how faithful this film should be to the comics.

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Guys, we've already had this discussion and you all said it was impossible to discuss this without it getting political.

Against my better judgment, I'll let this go so long as people remain civil.
Thank you.

Seems like cooler heads are prevailing so far.

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Old 09-09-2019, 12:52 PM   #40
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Joker won "Best Film" award at the Venice Film Festival.

http://collider.com/joker-wins-venic...val-top-award/

Often in the past, films that win this award go on to win Oscars as well.
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