The Ultimate Ninja?

[ToTheNines]

I was just thinking about this episode, and it really makes no sense.

I understand that the "ultimate ninja" was just a young prick looking to make a name for himself, that's fine. But what's up with Gyoji officiating the fight, and Splinter acting like they had to obey?

I mean, if you can just go around challenging any warrior in any dimension, and force them to fight or else their family dies, then what's the point of the Battle Nexus?

[ABrown]

I think TMNT fans really start to hate me when I get into this. See I think that The Ultimate Ninja came looking for the Shredder because he was a Battle Nexus Tournament champion, whether it was the most recent one, or otherwise. This furthered my belief that the creators originally intended the Shredder to have been human. Because the concept of the Utrom Shredder competing in a tournament like that just made absolutely no sense to me. It would make sense for a human Shredder to have competed in the tournament. Which leades me to believe that the human tengu Shredder won a battle nexus tournament at some point, and that's who the Ultimate Ninja came to battle, not knowing that the utrom and tengu Shredders were two different individuals.

[FearlessLeader]

I actually agree with your whole Shredder idea there ABrown. I think the Ultimate Ninja did want to battle him and then took on Leonardo when he somehow (probably through magic) found out Leo had at that point we thought taken out the Shredder.

I also agree with the Tengu Shredder portion of your statement because I feel like if Ch'rell knew there was this gateway to multiply universes some place he would try to take it over, because that seemed to be what he did.

As for the Ultimate Ninja showing up and everyone obeying and allowing the match. As shown later in season 4's "Grudge Match" exhibition fights in between Battle Nexus Tournaments are not unheard of so when the young Lord called his right to one I think everyone felt compelled to honor his wish. Even if later his father did chastise him for not actually having the privilege to make this request. Royalty get's away with a lot

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by ABrown

I think TMNT fans really start to hate me when I get into this. See I think that The Ultimate Ninja came looking for the Shredder because he was a Battle Nexus Tournament champion, whether it was the most recent one, or otherwise. This furthered my belief that the creators originally intended the Shredder to have been human. Because the concept of the Utrom Shredder competing in a tournament like that just made absolutely no sense to me. It would make sense for a human Shredder to have competed in the tournament. Which leades me to believe that the human tengu Shredder won a battle nexus tournament at some point, and that's who the Ultimate Ninja came to battle, not knowing that the utrom and tengu Shredders were two different individuals.

Make a lot of sense. Really good point, but I think they always intended the utrom shredder to be an utrom

[Genesis]

I hate the character. The so-called "Ultimate" Ninja was an obnoxious jerk in a way that I didn't think added anything to the story. Ultimate Drako played an important role, but they really could have just left it as Drako alone, not that it really matters. I just think UN was an ugly guy who was constructed as a cheap means to tell kids not to cheat, or whatever. They could have made him at least a little less colourful. He was a real strain on the eyes, but that's just me.

That is a really interesting theory. I'm not sure why that never occurred to me. The only thing is, well, wouldn't there have been a statue of the Shredder? I'm pretty sure either Shredder would have tried to take over the multiverse, so it's hard to agree with the part of Shreddy-bear winning the Battle Nexus tournament. It's hard to say which Shredder UN was really after, since Ch'rell was living essentially off of the Tengu Shredder's reputation. It's possible that no one in the other dimensions knew they were different people.

[CyberCubed]

Its possible the Shredder who won at the Battle Nexus was the original Oroku Saki before he merged with the demon. If it were Ch'rell its possible he might have tried to take over the whole place.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader

As for the Ultimate Ninja showing up and everyone obeying and allowing the match. As shown later in season 4's "Grudge Match" exhibition fights in between Battle Nexus Tournaments are not unheard of so when the young Lord called his right to one I think everyone felt compelled to honor his wish. Even if later his father did chastise him for not actually having the privilege to make this request. Royalty get's away with a lot

But gyoji straight up tells them their lives are forfeit if Leonardo refuses to fight. That'd be like me rolling up Floyd Mayweather's house and telling him to fight me or else his family dies... and then getting my ass kicked. Which would surely happen.

To get down to it, it was just lazy writing to make them fight.

Originally Posted by Genesis

I hate the character. The so-called "Ultimate" Ninja was an obnoxious jerk in a way that I didn't think added anything to the story. Ultimate Drako played an important role, but they really could have just left it as Drako alone, not that it really matters. I just think UN was an ugly guy who was constructed as a cheap means to tell kids not to cheat, or whatever. They could have made him at least a little less colourful. He was a real strain on the eyes, but that's just me.

I've always hated him too, but he's one of those character you're supposed to despise.

Tell you I REALLY hate is freakin gyoji. I literally cheer out loud when he dies in Big Brawl Part 4.

That is a really interesting theory. I'm not sure why that never occurred to me. The only thing is, well, wouldn't there have been a statue of the Shredder?

There was at least one statue of Shredder.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Its possible the Shredder who won at the Battle Nexus was the original Oroku Saki before he merged with the demon. If it were Ch'rell its possible he might have tried to take over the whole place.

Coulda been either.

I dunno, he was a megalomaniac for sure... but he was mainly hellbent on getting revenge on the Utroms for the past 1000 years. Plus he would have been overwhelmed by the Daimyo's magic.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Its possible the Shredder who won at the Battle Nexus was the original Oroku Saki before he merged with the demon.

Not the way the legend of the 5 dragons was told. They were literally given the armor immediately before riding into battle against the demon. Those horses couldn't have been too happy.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

But gyoji straight up tells them their lives are forfeit if Leonardo refuses to fight. That'd be like me rolling up Floyd Mayweather's house and telling him to fight me or else his family dies... and then getting my ass kicked. Which would surely happen.

To me the main problem is we never really had solid rules for the Battle Nexus laid out for us anywhere, so everything can simply be explained away with, well that is a technicality in the rules.

I always just assumed the Ultimate Ninja was a young lord probably twisting and bending around rules in order to achieve this battle he wished to fight because it was the only way he felt he could prove his worth.

I would also be interested to understand the aging progress of Tengu and if the Ultimate Ninja could have actually seen the Shredder's battle as a boy and maybe idolized him and that's what originally lead him down a less then honorable path.

Everything is just rampant speculation. I personally would have loved to have seen an entire season devoted to the Battle Nexus because it was more interesting to me at least then a lot of the stuff they did with Ch'rell.

[CyberCubed]

Nah. Season 3 was one of the best arcs simply because we got to see the business side of Oroku Saki, something we didn't see in Seasons 1 or 2. The fact that we don't even see Ch'rell to the finale and the Turtles don't even fight Shredder himself till the end says a lot.

I really liked all the Battle Nexus episodes, I wouldn't have mind if they did another full tournament sometime later had the Fast Forward rebranded not have happened.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader

To me the main problem is we never really had solid rules for the Battle Nexus laid out for us anywhere, so everything can simply be explained away with, well that is a technicality in the rules.

I always just assumed the Ultimate Ninja was a young lord probably twisting and bending around rules in order to achieve this battle he wished to fight because it was the only way he felt he could prove his worth.

But Splinter and gyoji both act like he's following the rules.

I just makes no sense. They have this great big tournament, wherein if you're about to get killed you get teleported to safety... but if some ass hole randomly challenges you to a fight while you're minding your own business on the street YOUR EFFING FAMILY DIES if you say "no", even though it's officiated/operated by the same people.

Lazy writing.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I wouldn't have mind if they did another full tournament sometime later had the Fast Forward rebranded not have happened.

Well apparently the tournament only happens every 3 years and during the early winter, and by my calculations that would place the following tournament after "Wedding Bells and Bytes", before Turtles Forever.

[BubblyShell22]

I thought the Ultimate Ninja had promise as a character before they merged him with Drako. Don't get me wrong, I liked those arcs as well, but I always thought that maybe UN would've had better character development without that.

I also am intrigued about how he became so pompous and arrogant. Maybe he did see one of the Shredders fight in the tournament and had the desire to do so himself. It would make sense in a way.

[CyberCubed]

It amused me that some of the creatures Kirby created in that drawing dimension wound up competing in the Battle Nexus somehow. Even one of the human gladiator people were there.

Probably just re-used character designs from the animators side, but a cool thing to see from fans.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Lazy writing.

What was your first clue? Splinter taking everyone out for ice cream?

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Nah. Season 3 was one of the best arcs simply because we got to see the business side of Oroku Saki, something we didn't see in Seasons 1 or 2. The fact that we don't even see Ch'rell to the finale and the Turtles don't even fight Shredder himself till the end says a lot.

I really liked all the Battle Nexus episodes, I wouldn't have mind if they did another full tournament sometime later had the Fast Forward rebranded not have happened.

Season 3 really was the best. It seemed like the Turtles kept to the shadows a lot more, and they moved much more swiftly, with flips and swooshy motions abound. It was wonderful.

I would have liked the Big Brawl episodes more if there weren't so many little bits of stupidity scattered throughout. Donatello losing so early and so easily makes for a great example, but at least he got more of a proper fight than Raphael did against Mike. My main problem, though, was the aggravating inconsistency of the winning terms. At first, it seems like you get teleported out if you're about to receive a killing/maiming strike. Then, they just got kinda lazy with it. Some of the simplest strikes started counting as victories. Raph in particular just kind of hit a wall, if I recall correctly. My nitpicking aside, the Battle Nexus arc was pretty cool, but with a bit more attention to detail (besides more violence - I know, I know, it's a kids' show), it could have been really awesome.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Genesis

I would have liked the Big Brawl episodes more if there weren't so many little bits of stupidity scattered throughout. Donatello losing so early and so easily makes for a great example,

They did that so Donatello can fight off those Shadow warriors with Usagi protecting both the sick Leonardo and the Daiymo. In fact Donatello's fight scenes during that whole sequence were excellent, and showed how strong he was.

but at least he got more of a proper fight than Raphael did against Mike.

That was my favorite part. The way Mike took down Raph by getting him angry was done extremely well.


As for the other stuff I agree the win terms of characters getting transported out when they could still fight seemed off at times, but whatever.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

But gyoji straight up tells them their lives are forfeit if Leonardo refuses to fight. That'd be like me rolling up Floyd Mayweather's house and telling him to fight me or else his family dies... and then getting my ass kicked. Which would surely happen.

I just makes no sense. They have this great big tournament, wherein if you're about to get killed you get teleported to safety... but if some ass hole randomly challenges you to a fight while you're minding your own business on the street YOUR EFFING FAMILY DIES if you say "no", even though it's officiated/operated by the same people.

Did the guy tell Leo that he had to fight or die? I don't remember that, but I believe it. I'll have to pay attention next time I watch that episode.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It amused me that some of the creatures Kirby created in that drawing dimension wound up competing in the Battle Nexus somehow. Even one of the human gladiator people were there. Probably just re-used character designs from the animators side, but a cool thing to see from fans.

Did some of them appear in the Battle Nexus? I never noticed that.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Did some of them appear in the Battle Nexus? I never noticed that.

Yes, one of the human gladiator guys was there as well as three of the monster designs.

On the animators side it was probably just re-used character designs so they didn't have to design generic aliens. But from an in-show perspective, its a neat thing for fans.

[TobTurn]

Originally Posted by ABrown

I think TMNT fans really start to hate me when I get into this. See I think that The Ultimate Ninja came looking for the Shredder because he was a Battle Nexus Tournament champion, whether it was the most recent one, or otherwise. This furthered my belief that the creators originally intended the Shredder to have been human. Because the concept of the Utrom Shredder competing in a tournament like that just made absolutely no sense to me. It would make sense for a human Shredder to have competed in the tournament. Which leades me to believe that the human tengu Shredder won a battle nexus tournament at some point, and that's who the Ultimate Ninja came to battle, not knowing that the utrom and tengu Shredders were two different individuals.

They didn't plan that far ahead. They planned one season at a time. Your Tengu Shredder idea is impossible too - the Utrom Shredder WAS The Shredder when they planned Season 2, they had no idea they were gonna introduce a new Shredder 3 years later. The Ultimate Ninja came to battle the Utrom Shredder. He went to Leo because Leo defeated the Utrom Shredder, and he's the one the Ultimate Ninja wanted to defeat.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by TobTurn

They didn't plan that far ahead. They planned one season at a time. Your Tengu Shredder idea is impossible too - the Utrom Shredder WAS The Shredder when they planned Season 2, they had no idea they were gonna introduce a new Shredder 3 years later. The Ultimate Ninja came to battle the Utrom Shredder. He went to Leo because Leo defeated the Utrom Shredder, and he's the one the Ultimate Ninja wanted to defeat.

No, I agree. I too don't think that they had actually planned that far ahead with the Tengu Shredder idea. I'm just saying that looking back after the fact, it's possible that maybe it was the tengu Shredder that won a battle nexus tournament. Because it makes a lot more sense to me that the tengu Shredder would've competed in the battle nexus than the utrom shredder.