Did you like Krang's retcon?

[WebLurker]

The thread seems to have been completely derailed. I think that this back and forth would be better suited to its own thread, private messaging, or something; it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I guess the retcon doesn't really make any sense given what we knew about Krang, but then again, we are talking about a retcon to a show with two unrelated and contradictory depictions of Atlantis. I'll just pretend it's a subtle jab at the writing of the Fred Wolf cartoon and leave it at that.

My theory is that the first Atlantis, off the Greece coast in the Mediterranean Sea, is the real island that once Plato described sinking into the seawater. The later, which thinks Bebop is a king, is an old civilization adopting the name.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

But we're talking about those who aren't active fanse still today.

I meant before I got back into it, those three never left my mind.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I meant before I got back into it, those three never left my mind.

Some years ago. I watched a Youtube clip with two persons playing "Turtles in Time" for SNES. They couldn't even simpy remember the very simpliest characters, like the name of Krang.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Some years ago. I watched a Youtube clip with two persons playing "Turtles in Time" for SNES. They couldn't even simpy remember the very simpliest characters, like the name of Krang.

Wow, how could anyone forget Krang with the way he talked? >< Oh well. Some things stick with you while others don't.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Wow, how could anyone forget Krang with the way he talked? >< Oh well. Some things stick with you while others don't.

I don't know, but I guess they weren't able to watch many episodes, just a few comics?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

This is laughable. The general public and most critics have not seen the show since childhood, if you think they would consider the show well written, I would gladly know where you got that impression.

You would be surprised. For us older members Turtles comics, cartoons etc never really left us which is why we know about stuff years later, it's called being a fan. People who write these articles grew up with the cartoon, some can probably remember quite a bit of the show. The same probably goes for writers discussing other cartoon shows from way back because after all why would you review something you have no knowledge of?

Originally Posted by neatoman

Most people I talk to who watched it as children can barely remember it,

Most people you talk to are probably 14 years old.

Originally Posted by neatoman

and he's pretty clear on his affinity for the show has far more to do with nostalgia than the actual excecution.

That's his opinion, not everyone's. He approached those reviews with the attitude that the show doesn't hold up and so that's what he found.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Most can probably not even remember an episode (knowing its official name and its main-storyline).

Actually with a lot of popular cartoons like TMNT and RGB the average viewer doesn't remember episode titles but they do remember episode stories which is why we get so many "Looking for the name of an episode" not just on here but on other forums as well.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm not even sure it's true that it's all that memorable or iconic in the eyes of the public to be honest, if anything it seems to have started slipping into obscurity seeing how blatant throwbacks to it are failing draw attention.

It's like one of the most famous cartoon series of all time. The fact you think it's obscure is what I call laughable.

Originally Posted by neatoman

As for the toyline marketing... Are you serious? Do you honestly believe a toy fair is the difference in the strategy? Pretty sure those existed in 1988 as well.

Nope. Now I understand the Internet has existed throughout your entire life but once upon a time the Internet wasn't commonly used by anyone. The way things were marketed, the overall marketing strategy was totally different. Back then if kids wanted toys based off a cartoon they would go to their nearest toys shop or if they were lucky perhaps glanced at a catalogue telling them the exact store they could find a that Turtles toy. Yeah there were toy fairs but most people who visited those fairs were investors or buyers. People did not generally visit toy fairs as fans! It was very uncommon and there was no Internet to spread the word toys were approaching. Today we have the Internet. Pre-orders can be setup online at a click of a button. We can see YouTube videos of well known YTs at toy fairs. People know about toys now months before due to advancements in technology. In this case most aren't going to think tie-in merchandise is a simple cash-in for the cartoon because the toys have been previewed months before! This leaves the actual episodes of a TV series to sell the cartoon, not the toys. Different marketing strategies see? That's your history lesson for today.

Originally Posted by neatoman

And that "not restricted by the toyline gibberish"? Tattoo is just a small sample of toy marketing in an episode entirely made for toy marketing, a perfect example of the toys being put before the show.

Strange, but when I look at one of my all time favourite Ninja Turtles episodes I don't go "look at all those toys, look at Groundchuck and Dirtbag toys on screen" I go "Groundchuck and Dirtbag are fun characters, I love this plot where the Turtles travel to a world of Turtles and deal with those consequences while Shredder builds a new Technodrome to conquer the Earth". The story you point to was a PrimeTime Special so obviously they wanted to include new characters related to a toyline but there isn't many examples of this throughout the show's run again compared to The Transformers.

Originally Posted by neatoman

At least none of the episodes contain internal contradictions, at least none of the episodes are at odds with other episodes, at least none of the episodes contain immedietly noticable animation errors, at least none of the episodes, etc.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. The 80s cartoon series didn't have Viacom behind it. MWS did pretty well with what it had. Consider perhaps that in thirty years time teens your age will poke fun at the Nick's silly elements, animation and storytelling with some accusing you of keeping those rose tinted glasses on.

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yes, both shows were made explicitly for the purpose of marketing a toyline and that's not a good thing when the toyline could just use the show for a basis, but at the very least they at least tried to make it presentable as an actual show this time around. And don't give me that "it was the times" or "it was the budget excuse" crap, if you release a show in such a sorry state where it has shoppy animation and still needs to rely on still frames in places alongside obvious animation errors to meet the deadline then you don't care about making a good show.

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. You have no idea that marketing strategies are different when comparing the 80s and 2010s, you have no idea what resources an animation company back in the 80s had and you also don't have a clue about what writers or animators were allowed and not allowed to do back then as animation was fairly looked down upon.You are basically saying that the 80s cartoon is inferior because of the Nick series was made in the 21st Century as it's CGI because apparently they didn't know what they were doing back then. That to me is ridiculous to anyone who even understands how animation works. You can keep spouting BS man but it can feel weary after a while because you aren't listening to people here that have been around longer, who were there at the time to understand the history and methods of the whole thing. If you want to be a knowledgeable you should listen to a range of opinions on the history of the franchise, not just dismiss a part of the franchise you know next to nothing about.

[Vundi]

Why is everyone ripping it apart? Who cares about what universe or reality they exist in. It's all made up and that episode was pure fan service. Glad they did it and can't wait for the next!

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by Vundi

Why is everyone ripping it apart? Who cares about what universe or reality they exist in. It's all made up and that episode was pure fan service. Glad they did it and can't wait for the next!

Yeah, the conversation isn't really even about the OP anymore.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I wonder if the person who wrote this, published here in early-April 2004, reacts:

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/fanfics/eok/eok.shtml