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Old 04-22-2018, 12:20 PM   #1621
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Planet of the Apes, Blade Runner, Mad Maxx, etc. all have had successful reboots.
He had said "most" not "all".
Besides, Blade Runner is a sequel and Mad Max more of the soft reboot / sequel.
And Planet of the Apes had failed reboot back in 2001.,
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:25 PM   #1622
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Originally Posted by Sumac View Post
He had said "most" not "all".
Besides, Blade Runner is a sequel and Mad Max more of the soft reboot / sequel.
And Planet of the Apes had failed reboot back in 2001.,
They're still rebooted franchises even if some are sequels, especially given the 30+ year gap for Blade Runner. As for the 2001 Planet of the Apes, sure, but that was 15 years ago now. They waited 10 years to 2011 for the next Planet of the Apes reboot and its been successful enough for 3 sequels and a 4th is planned.

There's also a bunch of other stuff I could mention, but given what Vegita-san said, old franchises are rebooted all the time. Almost any popular franchise right now has been around for decades, I said this when I realized everything I liked as a kid back in the 80's-90's is still around today in some form just in a new incarnation.

Anything that made a tremendous amount of money in the past never truly dies. Same reason Dragonball came back with Super after an 18 year hiatus.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:52 PM   #1623
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Back in the day they were called remakes, and Planet of the Apes 2001 was called a remake. Back in the day they also mentioned "everything in the cinema's is now a remake or a sequel".


Things haven't changed since the early 00's.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:16 PM   #1624
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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
They're still rebooted franchises even if some are sequels, especially given the 30+ year gap for Blade Runner. As for the 2001 Planet of the Apes, sure, but that was 15 years ago now. They waited 10 years to 2011 for the next Planet of the Apes reboot and its been successful enough for 3 sequels and a 4th is planned.
Erm, do you know the concept of the "sequel", right?
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:03 PM   #1625
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All I know is I felt so alone after The Force Awakens released since no one shared my opinion but now I feel the majority is on my side.


They want to treat Star Wars like Marvel and put people in charge who are OT fanboys. There's also the political agenda but that's not the reason Disney Star Wars sucks now no matter how much people may make it out to be, but I do think it's the reason so many are defending this garbage (not to say there aren't fans who may like it).
as i recall, there where people who hated TFA and knew it was nothing but an ep 4 rip off. but, it was fun enough, most where willing to give it a pass...hoping they fixed what was wrong in the sequel. that didn't happen, they made things worse, and that IMHO is why the tide is turning fast.

not to get into this again, but the political agenda is a HUGE reason why things are the way they are. I imagine KK sitting in an office and saying 'OK, first up, make sure shorter brown haired british woman is in this film and in 80% of the scenes. after that, do whatever the hell you want'. I also imagine her story group has a check list of things papa disney and KK want included.
they could probably care less if the story makes sense.

they probably spend so much time getting THOSE things in order first, that by the time the story comes along, they are too tired to care about quality and just greenlit whatever comes in first.


that's my opinion and i'm stickin with it
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:30 PM   #1626
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There's also the political agenda but that's not the reason Disney Star Wars sucks now no matter how much people may make it out to be, but I do think it's the reason so many are defending this garbage (not to say there aren't fans who may like it).
There was always a political agenda in Star Wars.
Every movie has one. Every work of fiction has one.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:39 AM   #1627
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Looking at Rottentomatoes, here are the audience rankings for all of the Star Wars movies:

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope = 96%
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back = 97%
Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi = 94%

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace = 59%
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones = 57%
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Jedi = 65%

Rogue One = 87%

And now we have the first two installments of the sequel trilogy...

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens = 88%

Which brings us to "The Last Jedi."

Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi = 47%

47%? Shesus. "Some fans" may have really liked "The Last Jedi," but it's apparently less than half of the audience. It's literally the least liked of any Star Wars film, and by a significantly large margin.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:57 AM   #1628
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
Looking at Rottentomatoes, here are the audience rankings for all of the Star Wars movies:

Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope = 96%
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back = 97%
Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi = 94%

Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace = 59%
Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones = 57%
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Jedi = 65%

Rogue One = 87%

And now we have the first two installments of the sequel trilogy...

Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens = 88%

Which brings us to "The Last Jedi."

Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi = 47%

47%? Shesus. "Some fans" may have really liked "The Last Jedi," but it's apparently less than half of the audience. It's literally the least liked of any Star Wars film, and by a significantly large margin.

That's pretty damned harsh. Yeowch.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:59 AM   #1629
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except for the inspid anakin/padme 'romance' scenes, I Actually quite liked Episode 2. Fett as the clone template was a bit much. but think they made up for it by making fett a clone.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:11 AM   #1630
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47% of users who rated a movie is not the same thing as half the audience.

That's like trying to pass off 47% of voters as the same thing as 47% of the people who came out to vote.
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just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:11 AM   #1631
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How accurate of a reflection is that site? Genuine question, I don't know it well (it's user groups etc)Anyway, ouch!
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:15 AM   #1632
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How accurate of a reflection is that site? Genuine question, I don't know it well. Anyway, ouch!
As with any election, the numbers only reflect those who showed up to vote.
So they're very accurate when it comes to representing the thoughts of certain people.
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There's no sense catering just to one demographic which is idiotic.
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just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:25 AM   #1633
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I think all of those percentages are fair. I'd be interested, though, to see if "The Force Awakens"' audience "voting booth" had a moratorium on votes for about... the first two months when it was released. People went in really excited and wanting to like it no matter what... by "The Last Jedi," expectations were well tempered.

But I guess you could say the same about the prequels, and those scores are notably still lower than the OT's.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:26 AM   #1634
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There was always a political agenda in Star Wars.
Every movie has one. Every work of fiction has one.
Not like this one, there's different approaches. I personally loved the way the prequel trilogies showed us how the senate was able to be manipulated, the way TLJ did it was not the way to do it as it'll rub off on people the wrong way and they didn't even have entire scenes related to politics like the Prequels did (though I guess these scenes also rubbed people the wrong way since most hate them).

Again, I didn't even notice these things while watching The Last Jedi, it wasn't until it was pointed out to me that I saw it. I also don't see things like Rey/Fynn being the main characters as "political", they added diversity. I don't think it's the problem with Disney Star Wars even if I may not be a fan, it's far from ruining Star Wars.

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How accurate of a reflection is that site? Genuine question, I don't know it well (it's user groups etc)Anyway, ouch!

Up in the air I'd say.

This Rotten Tomatoes score culture is poison and I hate it how people always try to back up their arguments because of it. You can enjoy or dislike stuff and it doesn't matter what these "scores" say. With that said, many people base their opinions based on those scores so it ends up being somewhat accurate. "Oh it has a bad score so it's bad" and they go ahead and write or make videos about it regardless.

However RT actually had glowing scores for TLJ and it's fans who rated it so low because they hated it. "geek culture" blogs for whatever reason may be (I have my theories) kept doubling down and defending TLJ and saying most people loved it and that only a "loud minority" was making trouble online and that they were "racists/sexists" and later they said it was 4chan trolls etc. But now most people accept people hate the movie and they have to go for arguments like Plastron's of "some people like it some people hate it". But just ask around and the majority dislike it, just ask your different friends and co-workers to get a "real" feel of what people like or dislike. If you go by the internet you'll get extremely skewed answers depending on where you ask.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:40 AM   #1635
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The plot of the original trilogy was that a homogeneous authoritarian regime was taken down by a ragtag group of diverse people.
The badguys were dressed in outfits inspired by the sartorial choices made by the Third Reich.
With the exception of the post production addition of James Earl Jones, everyone in the Empire is a white dude.

These aren't politically neutral.
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just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:55 PM   #1636
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Originally Posted by plastroncafe View Post
The plot of the original trilogy was that a homogeneous authoritarian regime was taken down by a ragtag group of diverse people.
The badguys were dressed in outfits inspired by the sartorial choices made by the Third Reich.

These aren't politically neutral.

I don't think most people considered having the Empire resemble the Nazi's too be a big political statement. Pretty much everyone considers Nazi's the bad guys*, hell having the Nazis was just an easy way to say who the bad guy was if you were lazy.

The prequels are a better example of the point you want to make, they were using fear and war as a way to get a hold of more power which was more relevant at the time since it's when the US was going into war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The new movies cut out all the "politics" because it was boring in the prequels apparently, I found that to be the most interesting part about the prequels but whatever. These Disney films are going one extreme of a political ideology though but that's as far as I'll get into it because it's an endless debate and we differ in opinions and it's just a small reason as to why Disney Star Wars is not any good.

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With the exception of the post production addition of James Earl Jones, everyone in the Empire is a white dude.
Well James Earl Jones was playing the voice of Darth Vader so he's also "white" regardless. This is actually brought up in the Expanded Universe somewhat, not so much about color but that the Empire was "speciest" and if you weren't human then you couldn't get a good rank or promotion if you were an alien. This is why everyone in the empire is usually human and the only one who isn't and got a high rank was Grand Admiral Thrawn which meant he was a total badass to make it to that level as an Alien.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:07 PM   #1637
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The prequels are a better example of the point you want to make, they were using fear and war as a way to get a hold of more power which was more relevant at the time since it's when the US was going into war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No they're really not, but thanks for the suggestion?

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The new movies cut out all the "politics" because it was boring in the prequels apparently, I found that to be the most interesting part about the prequels but whatever. These Disney films are going one extreme of a political ideology though but that's as far as I'll get into it because it's an endless debate and we differ in opinions and it's just a small reason as to why Disney Star Wars is not any good.
I'm confused, if the new movies cut out all the politics, then what's left to "rub people the wrong way" and how did they "go about it wrong?"
Or is it not political if there isn't a council meeting of some sort?

The original trilogy presented a space opera that had echos of the last great world war, and was made by a generation of people dealing with the US involvement in Vietnam. A far more murky endeavor than WWII.

The Prequels dealt with the political wheeling and dealings that brought us the rise of an authoritarian regime, by echoing the nation building going on in the middle east.

Where as the most current movies touch upon the fact that even if you defeat a group that most would agree are the personification of evil, that doesn't mean they're eradicated from the earth.

Taking down the Emperor didn't destroy either his methods or his philosophies, all it did was throw the universe into an intermediate period of chaos where those with means could take advantage of the power vacuum.

Instead of old white dudes running things with a supremacist bent, now we've got young white dudes running things with a supremacist bent.

And folks are making money hedging their bets on which ever side will come out victor...all while making a profit by selling arms.

You didn't like it. It didn't work for you.

I liked a good chunk of it, and while I enjoyed TLJ fleshed out the world a bit more, it had pacing and tone issues.
Basically, I liked the tent pole plot points, and saw what they were trying to do with the story, but didn't necessarily agree with how they got there.
But as I've said: I'm no less a fan of this franchise for enjoying the parts of this movie, than someone who hated it because...Rey's elbows were too pointy for their taste.
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just ignore what you don't like rather than obsessing over it and move on with your life.
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:15 AM   #1638
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There was always a political agenda in Star Wars.
Every movie has one. Every work of fiction has one.
Wrong.

Agenda means "intention" on the part of the author to push their views on people. Yes, it is true, that all authors influenced by their surroundings, however, it's not true, that every piece of work actively attempts to push some kind of political or any other views on people.

In that case, original Star Wars didn't largely had agenda. It was originally conceived as take on the US politics in Vietnam, however, message was largely diluted, especially since key segment, where bunch of aborigines take on advanced empire tech and won with stick and stones, was cut from the story (and later reinstated in Return of the Jedi). And the main good guys, rebels, are not really at technological advantage, when compared to empire.

In the end, it was generic "good guys rebels" against "bad guys empire" space opera. Not much of agenda.

Also, not every work fiction has "agenda" as a whole. Sometimes a story is just a story.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:27 AM   #1639
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and even if there where an agenda, with the original star wars, the STORY came first. any 'agenda' came second.

with these new movies, it's the reverse. agenda first, any attempt at story second or third.

it's pretty clear the agenda is there, most just don't want to deal with it or admit it.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:50 AM   #1640
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and even if there where an agenda, with the original star wars, the STORY came first. any 'agenda' came second.
Precisely.

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with these new movies, it's the reverse. agenda first, any attempt at story second or third.
I'd say it's not much political agenda, as much marketing agenda. Lefties are popular now (by "virtue" of being loud and scandalous, like kids) and it's a fad to pander to them to build a "progressive image" for the company and make good word of mouth for their products..
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