The most ruthless Shredder?

[The Great Saiyaman]

Originally Posted by newfan

I'm only in season 3 somewhere still with 2k3 so can't comment too much yet with Shredder and Karai, other than I notice he has her call him master and not father.

2012's couldn't put his feelings for her before his need for revenge, which she suffered for. The mutation was never meant for her though, thinking of the comment above, but it was his fault obviously.

I meant the further mutation when Stockman gave her the brainworms. That mutation meant that she could change at will and easier than she could before. Because before that she could change into a Hybird form but never truly back into a human being.

You can see it in "Serpent hunt" when the Turtles meet up with Karai in that warehouse, she changes back into a human but still kept the fork tongue, snake eyes and scaly skin.

After Stockman modified her, she could change back into a human 100%. In a way that would have been a nice gesture on Shredder's part. If it weren't for the fact that the transformation itself is pure agony for Karai.

If you look at what happened in "City at war" when she changes into her hybrid snake for to take on Tigerclaw, you see her body convulsing and you hear her groan as if she has a grand mal seizure. Note also that every single time she transforms, she screams.

Old Hob once described the mutation process as "Going through a sausage maker, you go in one thing and come out something different." There's just no way that transformation can feel pleasant and knowing Shredder, he wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

[newfan]

Oh, I just thought Shredder was trying to change her back (as he had previously asked the Kraang to do) but given the unique mutation that was the best Baxter could do. Could be wrong ofc, just never suspected her remaining part snake was intentional on Shredders part.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Originally Posted by newfan

Oh, I just thought Shredder was trying to change her back (as he had previously asked the Kraang to do) but given the unique mutation that was the best Baxter could do. Could be wrong ofc, just never suspected her remaining part snake was intentional on Shredders part.

It wasn't, that was a result of the chemicals that Stockman spilled into the mutagen. Look up the episode, after Karai escapes Stockman's lab, it is revealed that she can change back but not 100%.

But the pain that's involved with that transformation is the reason why Karai only uses her full snake form as a last resort.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

It wasn't, that was a result of the chemicals that Stockman spilled into the mutagen. Look up the episode, after Karai escapes Stockman's lab, it is revealed that she can change back but not 100%.

But the pain that's involved with that transformation is the reason why Karai only uses her full snake form as a last resort.

Think I got cross wires along the conversation. Gone back and re-read, I thought you meant that she was left to be part snake (at the 2nd mutation) intentionally rather than made fully human again but you were not saying that.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Originally Posted by newfan

Think I got cross wires along the conversatio. I was referring to your comment about the further mutation. I just thought she couldn't be de-mutated back to normal which is why she wasn't

Ah, sorry my bad. There's a difference between talking normally and just typing stuff down. The main difference being that we can explain ourselves better.

Going over the thread again, I saw that it was mentioned that Ch'Rell tried to enslave the Utrom race, which made me wonder if Kraang Prime from the 2012 series was Ch'Rell's counterpart. Because Kraang Prime actually succeeded in doing what Ch'Rell set out to do.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

Ah, sorry my bad. There's a difference between talking normally and just typing stuff down. The main difference being that we can explain ourselves better.

Going over the thread again, I saw that it was mentioned that Ch'Rell tried to enslave the Utrom race, which made me wonder if Kraang Prime from the 2012 series was Ch'Rell's counterpart. Because Kraang Prime actually succeeded in doing what Ch'Rell set out to do.

I changed my last post just as you replied sorry. Anyway, I got it. Yeah chat is better for crossed wires than forum posts but I that was my fault anyway.

[Utrommaniac]

Originally Posted by newfan

I'm only in season 3 somewhere still with 2k3 so can't comment too much yet with Shredder and Karai, other than I notice he has her call him master and not father.

She calls him "father" on some occasions, one time in particular when she was in a deeply emotional spot.

[DevilSpooky]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Even with everything, Ch'rell was capable of actually loving Karai to what little extent his psychopathy would allow.

Until he decided to erase her, himself and everything from existence just so he could destroy his enemies.

[Utrommaniac]

I was thinking more of when he attempts to attack/kill her for getting in his way of killing Leo, but yeah, that's a good point too.



Though, I think he was more mentally unsound than usual in Turtles Forever. Any other time, I don't think he would have done that.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Honestly, I felt that whole thing was way OOC for even him. His obsession in the main series NEVER went so far that he'd endanger his own existence for the sake of revenge. He was, if anything, very pragmatic in his attempts at retaliation against enemies. He used them to achieve his own goals when it was possible, and tried to kill them if they got in his way, but didn't go out of his way to destroy them if it meant harming his own interests. So TF was very much jumping the shark with that plot. Not to mention making him out to be far more unstable than he really was. Like a kid throwing a tantrum and stomping on the toys because he got banned from the playground for acting up. He was too smart and manipulative for that.

[Utrommaniac]

And like...it was all because he found out there were more dimensions where the turtles were always a constant threat to Shredder.

But again, I don't think Ch'rell would have cared. A more in-character response would probably have been more along the lines of "Well that was inevitable"


I also think a more realistic reaction to Krang would have been to click pretty well with him. Maybe not as well as IDW Ch'rell to his Krang, but well enough that they'd be a well-functioning team.

(And together with Karai, 87 Shredder would see no mercy in all the mockery that would surround him)

[Prowler]

I wonder how ruthless FW Shredder would have been if the entire show was like Red Sky. In Get Shredder he tried to kill off the entire Channel 6 news staff and also it's implied he killed a couple of cops early in the episode.

"I never bluff"

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I wonder how ruthless FW Shredder would have been if the entire show was like Red Sky. In Get Shredder he tried to kill off the entire Channel 6 news staff and also it's implied he killed a couple of cops early in the episode.

"I never bluff"

Pretty ruthless. You can compare the Shredder of Red Sky with Season 1, they are pretty much written the same.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Pretty ruthless. You can compare the Shredder of Red Sky with Season 1, they are pretty much written the same.

He also tried to kill April a few times and tried to condemn the Turtles to a life of slavery in Shredder Triumphant. He just wasn't a very competent villain. Not saying he was the most ruthless Shredder, but clearly his incompetence and the censors/ratings held him back.

[Utrommaniac]

The censors are probably the exact reason why he was written as incompetent...not to mention the need for a "what does the Technodrome need fixing now???" story on a near-regular basis.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Prowler

He also tried to kill April a few times and tried to condemn the Turtles to a life of slavery in Shredder Triumphant. He just wasn't a very competent villain. Not saying he was the most ruthless Shredder, but clearly his incompetence and the censors/ratings held him back.

Yeah I mean back then they couldn't make it too dark.

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

- Mirage Shredder only existed for 1 issue and the Turtles killed him, so we have no idea what he did otherwise aside from killing Hamato Yoshi.

- Original cartoon Shredder was a typical 80's cartoon supervillain. To be fair he had the most world domination plots of any Shredder with Krang.

- Movie Shredder from the original 90's trilogy trained New York's teens into Foot Clan for a crimewave.

- 2k3 Shredder wanted to conquer Earth, enslave the Utroms, and take over the universe. Then wipe out all of existence. He was like Freeza and Xeno from DBZ.

- Demon Shredder from 2k3 also wanted to take over the world and turn it into Hell for demons.

- Nick Shredder had plans to control the city, but most of it was trying to kill Splinter and the Turtles. He did raise his enemies daughter as his own child for 16 years though, so that's dark.

- IDW Shredder was a feudal Japan warlord, but that was the norm for ancient Japan.

To be fair Mirage Shredder does show up later issues thanks to bein revived twice thanks to cloning and the clone retaining all of his memories of both his life and death in issue 1. He also had other versions of him called Doctor Shredderus and Oroku Yoshi.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Toxin45

To be fair Mirage Shredder does show up later issues thanks to bein revived twice thanks to cloning and the clone retaining all of his memories of both his life and death in issue 1. He also had other versions of him called Doctor Shredderus and Oroku Yoshi.

Isn't he supposed to be an Utrom or was that something they added to the 4Kids series? I know the fans weren't happy about it.

[Kenwatanabesclone]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Isn't he supposed to be an Utrom or was that something they added to the 4Kids series? I know the fans weren't happy about it.

4kids.

——

[Toxin45]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Isn't he supposed to be an Utrom or was that something they added to the 4Kids series? I know the fans weren't happy about it.

I was talked ng about mirage not 4kids dude.