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Old 06-15-2018, 11:01 AM   #1
neatoman
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Would Fichtner as Shredder have worked better?

In a morbid way, I'd actually like to see the original cut of the movie. You know, the one where Sacks is Shredder, rather than the corporate partner of Shredder. In general because I legitemately wonder if the movie would have made more sense that way. Neither this movie nor its sequel are good, but Out of the Shadows is still the worse movie by far. However, OotS was (presumably) not chopped up and reshot like the 2014 movie. This makes me wonder, would it have been better or worse if it wasn't heavily edited?

On one hand, the obvious reshoots are about the only thing legitimately worse about the first one. On the other hand, it was still made by mostly the same people (aside from the director), meaning it could have been more similar to OotS.

I don't think the original cut will ever be released, or even leaked online, but I do wonder about it. It's not a popular movie by any means, so it doesn't warrant a "Director's cut" release, which means we'll never know for sure.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:52 PM   #2
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I'd lean towards yes. I mean, it couldn't be much worse.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:09 PM   #3
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In a morbid way? Sure, I'd watch it. I'd put money on me feeling just as indifferent towards the movie though no matter what the cut.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:32 PM   #4
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If April can be black why can't Shredder be white ?
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:54 PM   #5
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While writing could have been done differently, I wouldn't have liked that.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:00 PM   #6
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If April can be black why can't Shredder be white ?
Assuming that's a serious question, because it's considered whitewashing.

Taking a character who was conceived of as white, the majority in the United States, and changing them to belong to a minority group tends to get praise from left wing press and critics. While others who don't share their politics tend to react in a neutral manner. Taking a character who is a minority in the US and changing them to be white, tends to get a very negative response.

And yes, it's true that either case has very little to do with the quality of the end product, most of the audiece will also be ignorant of the source material regardless of what it is. It's just a good idea not to alienate critics or the media, who have an impact on people's decision to see it.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:14 PM   #7
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Personally, I think improvements would still only be limited. Their true enemy is still an evil businessman who wants to get "stupid rich" by hurting people and Shredder is basically just his attack dog. Splitting it into two characters may have left out this Shredder's having any reason why he should even give a crap about Sack's scheme or the Turtles (would it have been so hard to give him some kind of stakes in the matter?)... but on the other hand, even if Sack's remained Shredder, it still doesn't make sense because he has NO clue that his so-called "cure" would for some inexplicable reason mutate his lab animals into intelligent humanoid people, doesn't question it, and is completely unsurprised that it even happened. (Sure, he was mildly impressed, but definitely not the right reaction...)

And instead of changing course because the new mutagenic revelation SHOULD have kind of interested him... no, he still just wants to make the city sick to get rich while he STILL also hasn't any idea if the mutagen will cure anyone. Will be a bit hard to get rich if you just end up killing everyone instead.

Meanwhile... yes, "even if it kills them"... lets just murder one of the most massive discoveries in science history that could have made you rich and famous. Harming the citizens of the city - including perhaps killing some of your clientele/business partners/etc who give you money - is so much more attractive then telling the world you found a way to turn animals into people.

Sack's doesn't need to be Shredder to still not make sense, he did a pretty good job of that himself, too.


These films have a major problem with the motivations of characters and how people feel about and react to things or making it come across as natural. It's hard to understand how human writers don't understand how a human would react in a situation. The reason I like OotS better even though the story is weaker... the brothers are at least better in that regard and react well to their interactions and situations, even if the humans are idiots. Well, the police force at least reacted appropriately.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:14 PM   #8
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No a disgusting 60 year old white man being Shredder was offensive and shark jumping material, even more than Turtle nostrils. There's a reason even they decided to change it and make Saki Japanese, they knew they couldn't get away with it.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:35 PM   #9
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I'm shocked that none of the early scripts have leaked. Would be interesting to read.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:40 PM   #10
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For the narrative flow? Yeah I think the Sacks Shredder cut would have been structurally less fractured and less messy, but still a mess.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:53 PM   #11
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I'm shocked that none of the early scripts have leaked. Would be interesting to read.
The Blue Door script was interesting - just not at all Ninja Turtles.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:54 PM   #12
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I would've liked Sachs as Shredder better than what we got, heck they should've gone with the original idea of Colonel Schrader.

And I think the whitewashing arguement is complete garbage. So many of the Shredders over the years have had traits that were not Japanese. OT and Nick Shredder didn't sound like Japanese men at all (barring OT Shredder in season 1) and 2k3 Shredder was not even human, let alone Japanese.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.

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Old 06-15-2018, 04:01 PM   #13
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The movie invested a lot of time on Sacks only to then say "oh Shredder is his master LULZ", maybe it would've been better to have Sacks as Shredder. This was a new interpretation after all, it was already pissing off the entire fanbase so that didn't matter. At least Sacks would've had some pay off and the stakes would've been higher and more personal since this new interpretation already had all their origins interlaced.

Taking Sacks out not only hurt TMNT 2014 but also TMNT OOTS.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:02 PM   #14
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I'm shocked that none of the early scripts have leaked. Would be interesting to read.
The "Alien Origin" script was leaked. Obviously it wasn't ever used for shooting the movie but it was leaked. Here's a summary in video form and a link.



https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-EqA_...cript_djvu.txt

If you don't have the time to watch or read, here's the basics.
  • Turtles and Splinter are indeed aliens from Dimension X but have falsely thought they were mutants.
  • They were part of some prophecy nonsense, which is why they're on earth hiding.
  • Shredder is an alien pretending to be an army guy.
  • Casey is a nightguard who plays hockey.
  • April is an intern who pretends to be a journalist.
  • Krang built the Technodrome on earth and plans to take over Dimension X.
  • The turtles beat Krang and Split up to protect the world.
  • Bebop and Rocksteady are there but it's unclear if they're aliens too.
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:29 PM   #15
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wow

I guess you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to changing things up
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #16
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I was referring to the earlier shooting drafts, not The Blue Door. The actors have said they shot versions of the movie with entirely different tones, stories, etc. Bay apparently changed up the tone quite a bit after he saw a rough cut.

I would have rather had The Blue Door, to be honest. It was one revision away from being a fun Fred Wolf adaptation. Don't get me wrong, there were some baaadddddd decisions in it, but I think it would have been a better movie overall.

Has any concept art from TBD ever surfaced?
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Old 06-15-2018, 04:56 PM   #17
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Funny thing is, one of the most complained about problem in the movie would be resolved if Sachs was indeed Shredder, the Splinter-Shredder feud. With Sachs being Shredder we have a reason for Splinter to want revenge, because he killed his "master"
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:35 PM   #18
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Has any concept art from TBD ever surfaced?
Well there were those horrid looking (as far as trying to be the TMNT goes) alien turtle things (esp that one in the upper right, geezus) that are clearly from back when they were still planning to go the alien route.

I think a full quarter of the fanbase would have had died of a stroke had they used those models. What we got is almost adorable in comparison.

I still think they'd have made cool turtle-like alien enemies for our Turtles to fight, but those AS our TMNT... Oh hell no.


edit: Why do they have dewclaws...



I don't even remember seeing these 'teasers' back then...

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-.../08/TMNT61.jpg
http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/wp-.../08/TMNT71.jpg

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Old 06-18-2018, 11:13 AM   #19
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From what I understand, tha particular art was part of a spec pitch to get conceptual/design work on the film. It wasn't ever in-play by the production.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:45 PM   #20
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It would only serve to further make the movie even more vehicle for Megan Fox than it already was, they were just using the TMNT for brand recognition. Making the guy who killed her Dad the Shredder just makes him her enemy and cuts the TMNT further into the corner.
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