Does anyone else feel disillusioned with their fandom?

[Dejablue]

Originally Posted by Galactus

We still have IDW (which may not be everyones cup of tea but it's popular among the fanbase) and while I've never been a huge collector of TMNT since I've been an adult there's been great collectibles that are still coming out and not all exclusively based on the current show or the 80s series. There's certainly been worse times to be a fan if not for the future prospects being than iffy.

Yeah I enjoy IDW. Currently I download them from the comic app.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Mao Mao is pretty much my favorite kids cartoon right now and has no reason being as good as it is. Also I don't know if you are watching Rise but I found it a good substitute for Mao Mao's hiatus

I'm not a big fan of Rise but I adore MaoMao. Badgerclops is the best.

[TommyT]

@Papatroll

Look, it had it's shot, you got two seasons of this crap. They tried. The brand dug itself an even deeper hole from Bayturtles, something nobody thought even possible, but Rise managed it. How? By serving up something nobody but a few of you wanted.

A teapot? Balls.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Okay how many TMNT properties have been done properly in the last decade

So far, yeah, we've yet to have Turtles done right, aside from some fan art here and there, and done right, it's Mirage, not 2k3, with it's obnoxious colors and angry Laird. Mirage done right, brings it to life, and honors the origin.

They've tried everything else. BY YOUR LOGIC, what's the harm in trying something "new".

Originally Posted by PApagreg

There is nothing to define Cal Arts because ...blah....blah...

This doesn't deserve any response. You're being pedantic. Everybody can point out the cal arts style. Iron Giant isn't included, ever.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

isn't it a time to experiment with new stuff also your idea of quality might be different from somebody else.

The experiment is a failure. Moving on.

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Mao Mao is pretty much my favorite kids cartoon right now and has no reason being as good as it is. Also I don't know if you are watching Rise but I found it a good substitute for Mao Mao's hiatus

So stop trying to make our thing your thing because you're bored. This sums up everything I've been saying since the start. You're on vacation over here, because there's nothing to see over there. you are trolling because you like how unhappy the fandom is, and you're feeding the misery.

We're done here. Scamper back home now. This is getting old.

[AquaParade]

Tommy T. I'm jumping in mid-convo here, and maybe you're exaggerating to make a point, but I think it's a hard-sell to say that "Rise..." dug the franchise into a bigger hole than Bayturtles. I'd disagree.

The thing is, hardly anyone even knows "Rise..." exists and it is mainly aimed at children to sell toys. Whereas Bayturtles - the first one anyway - was actually aimed at the older, comicbook-movie-watching public. I mean, they butchered it and threw in fart jokes, but from a fan standpoint, it's scary to think that the producers might be thinking "okay, the problem with this film is that it wasn't aimed at 5 year olds" - which, judging by the sequel, I'd be surprised if that sentiment wasn't floating around the room.

Bayturtles also had much more riding on it, in general. Big, blockbuster franchise. The movie theater is where a franchise goes to show off to the rest of the world what it has been up to - it is representative. And the Bayturtles totally blew it in that sense.

Anyway, that's just my two cents, but I'm pretty sure this point wasn't the crux of your post anyway.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Tommy T. I'm jumping in mid-convo here, and maybe you're exaggerating to make a point, but I think it's a hard-sell to say that "Rise..." dug the franchise into a bigger hole than Bayturtles. I'd disagree.

The thing is, hardly anyone even knows "Rise..." exists and it is mainly aimed at children to sell toys. Whereas Bayturtles - the first one anyway - was actually aimed at the older, comicbook-movie-watching public. I mean, they butchered it and threw in fart jokes, but from a fan standpoint, it's scary to think that the producers might be thinking "okay, the problem with this film is that it wasn't aimed at 5 year olds" - which, judging by the sequel, I'd be surprised if that sentiment wasn't floating around the room.

Bayturtles also had much more riding on it, in general. Big, blockbuster franchise. The movie theater is where a franchise goes to show off to the rest of the world what it has been up to - it is representative. And the Bayturtles totally blew it in that sense.

Anyway, that's just my two cents, but I'm pretty sure this point wasn't the crux of your post anyway.

Absolutely, whatever TPTB will take away from the failures "Out of the Shadows" and "Rise of the TMNT" will be the wrong take aways.

[CyberCubed]

Regarding IDW, is it weird they're about to hit the milestone of issue #100, something no other TMNT comic has ever done (even if you include all of Mirage together, it took YEARS to get there), and it feels like there's just not that much hype?

I mean this comic started way back in 2011, we had no idea it would be successful or last this long. It's about to hit the milestone issue 100, and there's not really THAT much hype. Sure I see people interested and I am too, but I dunno, I just feel, "eh" about it.

Maybe it has to do with old age. I know if I were 10 years younger in my early 20's still, I'd probably be more hyped. I always got more excited about stuff when I was younger.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by TommyT

@Papatroll

Look, it had it's shot, you got two seasons of this crap. They tried. The brand dug itself an even deeper hole from Bayturtles, something nobody thought even possible, but Rise managed it. How? By serving up something nobody but a few of you wanted.A teapot? Balls.

Uh no it didn't, like how did it dig itself into a deeper hole than Bayturtles

Originally Posted by TommyT

So far, yeah, we've yet to have Turtles done right, aside from some fan art here and there, and done right, it's Mirage, not 2k3, with it's obnoxious colors and angry Laird. Mirage done right, brings it to life, and honors the origin. They've tried everything else. BY YOUR LOGIC, what's the harm in trying something "new".

You literally said that you wanted a Joker TMNT to kickstart turtlemania ignoring that it was OT that started it in the first place also this kinda proves my point there are lot of people who would call any incarnation of doing it right you and Andrew say it Mirage, some people say its OT, some people say its 2k3 and other people say its 2k12 the point I'm trying to make is that different people have different ideas of what are true turtles.

Originally Posted by TommyT

This doesn't deserve any response. You're being pedantic. Everybody can point out the cal arts style. Iron Giant isn't included, ever.

You said Rise was Cal Arts because Andy Suraino worked on Samurai Jack and taught there for 10 years so again by your logic Iron Giant is Cal Arts. Also you are literally the first person I know to refer Samurai Jack and Powerpuff girls as Cal Arts

Originally Posted by TommyT

So stop trying to make our thing your thing because you're bored. This sums up everything I've been saying since the start. You're on vacation over here, because there's nothing to see over there. you are trolling because you like how unhappy the fandom is, and you're feeding the misery.

We're done here. Scamper back home now. This is getting old.

I like a show you don't like, grow up.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Tommy T. I'm jumping in mid-convo here, and maybe you're exaggerating to make a point, but I think it's a hard-sell to say that "Rise..." dug the franchise into a bigger hole than Bayturtles. I'd disagree.

The thing is, hardly anyone even knows "Rise..." exists and it is mainly aimed at children to sell toys. Whereas Bayturtles - the first one anyway - was actually aimed at the older, comicbook-movie-watching public. I mean, they butchered it and threw in fart jokes, but from a fan standpoint, it's scary to think that the producers might be thinking "okay, the problem with this film is that it wasn't aimed at 5 year olds" - which, judging by the sequel, I'd be surprised if that sentiment wasn't floating around the room.

Anyway, that's just my two cents, but I'm pretty sure this point wasn't the crux of your post anyway.

So, here's my angle, as i've said to others here, in private.

This is our chance. Our chance for a real do over. Nick is freaking the hell out, not sort of, not maybe, but seriously. They don't have anything but spongebob that generates the REAL revenue that TMNT is supposed to. They don't understand it, and they don't get it. There are tons of politics, much like the stupid back and forth I've been having with some members here. People, who can't be seen to have been wrong. People who are trying to figure out how to make this a brand "kids" will respond to.

They don't get it.

NOT. FOR. KIDS. This needs to be the UNITED message from the fans. Look what it did for Sonic. For the fandom, it's time to stop sniping at each other, and make a stand. It can happen, if we are loud enough.

Bay turtles was aimed at kids, not adults. No part of that plan was to sell toys to adults, except as an afterthought, when some companys pitched collectibles. It's just not how any of this works. The play plan is all playmates knows. It's what Viacom was betting on.

KIDS. DON'T. CARE. Is the right message.

I will argue anyone into oblivion who tries to take the focus off of where it should be. We all want the same damned thing, so derisive stupidity from non fans can't be part of the conversation any longer. especially those who don't even know the core material.

Most of you would be very excited to get something approaching the 1990 film again. it can happen, if we stand up and ask.

[The-Shredder]

I think this disillusionment comes from TMNT slowly becoming something that each of us are not personally familiar with. It happened with the 2003 cartoon, where many people who grew up with the 1987 cartoon either thought that because it didn't have the Technodrome, Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady, and a bunch of mutants, it wasn't "the real Turtles we grew up with," or they thought they were too old for it or too busy to watch it. Technically, the 1987 cartoon was the first one I watched through reruns on a satellite channel in 2003, but I saw the 2003 cartoon a few months afterwards, and it instantly became my favorite. On the flip side, the same happened to me with the 2012 cartoon, where I was the one no longer being appeased to. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all three versions in their own way, but I like to have a bit more "Ninja" with my "Turtles."

Once it was announced that Peter Laird sold TMNT to Viacom, I knew the direction was drastically going to change. I understand the reasons behind it, but we lost a lot with it. The 2003 cartoon ended, albeit on a high note, the movie reboot was cancelled and we got the Michael Bay movies instead, ninjaturtles.com, our official link between the creators and the fans, shut down, and Mirage was out of the picture. You could tell that a lot of the 1987 fans who seemed to be coming out of the woodwork were ecstatic, but I was worried once it was made clear that a lot of the 1987 stuff was coming back through merchandise and hints being dropped by the people making the 2012 cartoon, which I still have mixed feelings about despite having it's moments in the later seasons. It didn't help that Viacom was treating the 2003 cartoon like it barely existed until recently, where they acknowledge it exists on social media and Pluto TV, but are virtually doing nothing commercially with it.

I felt the same way with post-Disney Lucasfilm's snide sidelining of the prequel trilogy and The Clone Wars during The Force Awakens hype, yet despite the quality of the movies, it's not being ignored. There is plenty of merchandise, a newfound appreciation is being made for the movies and the people who worked on them, and shockingly enough, The Clone Wars is coming back for a new season next year.

We're not entitled to anything, but I feel somewhat betrayed and disappointed that the Mirage-centric TMNT I knew was over. Sure, we have more expensive collectibles than we ever did ten years ago, but I care more about the cartoons, movies, and video games, which for the most part were mediocre. I have yet to watch Rise of the TMNT, but despite being radically different, I will form my own opinion on it and give it a chance. If it's like Teen Titans Go!, I'll probably enjoy it just for laughs. However, I don't think drastic reboots like this are the answer. Other comic book characters do just fine with sticking to their main tenets. I don't get why that's so difficult for TMNT nowadays.

I think what is really needed is some sort of creative brain trust overseeing everything if it doesn't already exist, just as how there is Marvel and DC, even though both are owned by giant conglomerates as well. Other than consulting with Kevin Eastman, I don't believe that exists anymore after the sale to Viacom.

However, I still have hope. This year, we got the Batman crossover movie, and it's the first TMNT thing in years that I hold in high regard. You can tell by the comic book covers in the end credits that DC did their homework. Also, TMNT is currently experiencing its 35th anniversary. This year is also Batman's 80th anniversary. If you look at the first 35 years of Batman, it wasn't perfect either. The Batman that we all know and love came into being during the 70s and 80s. Hopefully, we don't have to wait decades for that to happen with TMNT.

[triplexxx]

My interest will never dwindle. I joined this forum because I was interested in the franchise, this forum isn't the reason I'm into it. I may not be into every single incarnation, but that doesn't mean I'll ever stop enjoying it.

[Zulithe]

Without the right leadership at the top to direct how things go with TMNT it's going to be luck of the draw. They are going to greenlight a lot of mediocre TMNT stuff until something changes. Though every once in a while they will get it right when they hire people who with the right talent and passion, like we saw with 2k12.

I was a big fan as a kid (late 80s through a good portion of the 90s), and then ducked out of the fandom for a long time until 2k12 came out. It reminded me how much I loved that universe. Since it ended, i've been much less engaged with TMNT outside of collecting figures here and there. I'd love to see another series come out that I can truly love again before I cash in my chips.

I know most of us love the 1990 live action movie and hold it in the highest regard, but honestly it's not THAT high of a bar to surpass if they get the right people involved. A really well done movie would do a lot for the brand if they followed it up with a decent tv show around the same time.

Stop with the all-CGI turtles for a live action movie. Just no. Look at how much people LOVE baby yoda in the Mandalorian. A lot of that comes from it being a puppet. If it were just a cgi creature in a cgi crib it would be getting way way less attention. The 1990 movie had those amazing costumes. So that's one thing that they really should take seriously for the next movie... go practical as much as possible, with CGI only to bridge some gaps. If they aren't willing to do that then I don't have much faith in future movie adaptations. They need to get people on the projects who understand what works and are willing to put in the effort. If you just hire someone who needs their next paycheck you get stuff like the 2014 and 2016 movies.

IDW comic will help us through the dark times, so keep supporting it.

[Vegita-San]

My dissalusment was butting heads with turtle creatives for daring to have an opinion on something. One of my first introductions to the world of SJW's.

and even then, the only thing I really truly enjoyed was IDW Turtles after 2K3 ended.

I'm no longer the dedicated fan I used to be, thanks to the giant corporate buyout.. but more a casual fan. If I like something, I'll support it, but I no longer feel like getting up in arms over something that wasn't meant for me to begin with..

[IndigoErth]

To answer the question... Nah. My fandom is my fandom and hasn't ever been dependent on what other people think, say, or, at the creator level, do. I love these guys too much as a whole to become disillusioned with them personally based on disappointment with a present direction or other choices made. Nor fan behavior, as I didn't grow up with "fandom" being dependent on a community of people or their need to agree on most everything or see things the same way, lest someone's feelings get hurt or invalidated. I really enjoy having people to discuss it with, esp as I didn't really have that at all as a kid, but the wider community fandom is still kind of a separate thing than my own personal fandom. It serves its own purpose in having a voice that one single person generally can't have in the case of a wide consensus if something is a good or bad direction, but it doesn't really impact or direct how I personally feel about things.


Probably one of the only things that genuinely bugs me, but is a wider fandom thing in general and not limited to the TMNT, is that particular subset of it where it seems to have turned into more of a "club" for kids (I assume teens or rather young adults most likely) to get attention more-so than a group with genuine shared interest in the characters. I don't know how many times I've seen kids "threaten" to "leave" it because they aren't getting enough attention for their shoddy art/OC or whatever. Fandom, imo, should not be about that... it's supposed to be about the canon characters and their stories you enjoy, not about you. That's definitely one trend in fandom I'd rather not see increase. (Note this does not include those artists, writers, etc who create because they enjoy it, not because they specifically want likes.)

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by TommyT

They don't get it.

NOT. FOR. KIDS.


KIDS. DON'T. CARE. Is the right message.

You forget how these boardroom idiots think. If they see kids don't care about TMNT they'd much sooner just can the whole thing and leave TMNT retired like all the other old Nick shows than make it for adults.

"The kids ain't buying it. Shut it down. Shut it all down. What, make a show aimed at adults? What's wrong with you? Adults don't like kiddy **** like TMNT."

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by The-Shredder

We're not entitled to anything, but I feel somewhat betrayed and disappointed that the Mirage-centric TMNT I knew was over.

You're not wrong, but who do we really direct that betrayal to? Not Nick. They paid 63 million to do whatever they want with the TMNT, which they made clear would just be recyclings of Fred Wolf garbage. Peter, then?

Originally Posted by Zulithe

IDW comic will help us through the dark times, so keep supporting it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There's a difference between disillusionment and disappointment.

I'd like for TMNT to branch out a bit more and cater to my personal desires. I do see Rise of the TMNT as branching out, but I also see it as further cementing the "just for kiddies" mentality. But I haven't watched a single episode, so what do I know?

But I don't expect -- and never have expected -- Viacom/Nick to suddenly offer a Daredevil-esque TMNT series with darkness and blood and moral ambiguity. I'm lucky to even still be getting a TMNT IDW comic series.

So I'll take what I can, wish for more, and not expect to get more. It is what it is. Short of another buyout or something radically shaking up the status quo and bottom dollar, this is what it will be.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

You forget how these boardroom idiots think. If they see kids don't care about TMNT they'd much sooner just can the whole thing and leave TMNT retired like all the other old Nick shows than make it for adults.

"The kids ain't buying it. Shut it down. Shut it all down. What, make a show aimed at adults? What's wrong with you? Adults don't like kiddy **** like TMNT."

I. Don’t. Care.

I repeat. I do not care what they think, I care about what they will think.


If one was to stumble in here, looking for a direction, what would the exec take away? Would they understand that the fans really, really want a Mirage show?

No. They’d instead be reading pages of what WE think they think, and that’s not the message we should get out.

Make TMNT Great Again

It is not a kids story. It was bastardized by Mark Freedman.
TMNT is not 4 Kids.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by TommyT

I. Don’t. Care.

I repeat. I do not care what they think, I care about what they will think.


If one was to stumble in here, looking for a direction, what would the exec take away? Would they understand that the fans really, really want a Mirage show?

No. They’d instead be reading pages of what WE think they think, and that’s not the message we should get out.

Make TMNT Great Again

It is not a kids story. It was bastardized by Mark Freedman.
TMNT is not 4 Kids.

No.... They'll just think we're a huge bunch of lifeless losers that live in our parents basements that are obsessed over a kiddy cartoon and not the right age demographic.

We don't matter. Our voices aren't worth ****. We're not the target demographic.

It won't change until someone in the boardroom that also is a technodrome member comes along and tries a massive gamble.

[pferreira]

I don't personally feel the franchise is in danger right now. I may feel disillusioned in the sense it's moved on and reinvented itself (sort of) but as long as it makes money I don't see the franchise being in any trouble even with the current franchise revolving around Rise and the IDW comic which I can't get into.

Originally Posted by snake

So, I don't make a lot of posts here anymore. I still browse, but I don't engage as much as I used to, or like to. I'm not sure what it is, but I've been disinterested and disappointed with the recent handling of the TMNT, and I think its effected my interest.

Times change and style moves on although it can still be referenced. It's all to do with whatever is popular right now to keep things fresh.

Originally Posted by snake

Still, it's all over now. The public has- for the most part- moved on. I should say that I love what I've seen from Rise. It's new, different, and beautifully animated.

You embraced it but most haven't due to characters acting out of character and the terrible Cal Arts inspired animation. It's the kind of animation I'd expect from Samurai Jack and other cheap Cartoon Network shows like Adventure Time. I miss good animation where animation has detail.

Originally Posted by snake

Tied to that godforsaken sh*tty cartoon from the 80s, we will never get something innovative and new again.

Well okay there...

Originally Posted by Prowler

"Cowabunga" is a fine war cry. One could argue it's heavily outdated, but I'll take it over Booyakasha any day. That one is also outdated and it's not even something that people associate with the Turtles, but with Ali G. While Cowabunga predates TMNT by at least 2 decades, at least it's something people associate with the Turtles. So it might as well be their trademark at this point. That or Bart Simpson, I guess.

THIS!

Originally Posted by TommyT

How would you define cal arts? Its low IQ super simplified nonsense. Give me The 80’s Thundercats intro or Ralph Bakshi anyday.

Also THIS!

[Andrew NDB]

It's like they don't understand why the TMNT has endured as a franchise in the way that it has. When you pass the age of about 10 and outgrow the Nick TMNT (Rise, in this case), there's nothing to outgrow it into.

So really Nick TMNT's audience is a revolving door of millions of 5-9 year olds (becoming interested then almost immediately outgrowing it and losing interest). Oh, and like the ten 30-40 year-olds on this forum and on the internet that watch it out of some kind of devotion to the franchise, or at least what the franchise used to be.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by pferreira

You embraced it but most haven't due to characters acting out of character and the terrible Cal Arts inspired animation. It's the kind of animation I'd expect from Samurai Jack and other cheap Cartoon Network shows like Adventure Time.

Ah oh. Duck and cover! I think I hear an air raid siren. lol