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Old 12-06-2018, 09:16 PM   #101
Leo656
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I think that with certain things, I'm in close agreement with Zarius, insofar as, sometimes, SOMEthing has to go right for so-and-so.

People go on about "The ol' Parker Luck", and "He's supposed to be this tragic loser", but eventually, with all the piling on, the guy'd just up and kill himself, if we're being real. The fact that if nothing else, he always had MJ, was the one bit of stability in his life. It's simply not realistic to expect that this guy would remain forever optimistic, altruistic, and acting as a hero if it truly was a case of "Nothing ever goes right". Again, he'd eventually just kill himself. They're not gonna have him do that, so they need to at least give him SOMEthing to be grateful for in his life. It doesn't HAVE to be a never-ending tragedy, nor should it be.

I'll be open and say the stories that lean into "Peter's life sucks and he's a total loser" are ones I stay far away from. There's "something for the average slobs reading the book to relate to", and then there's just plain drudgery and misery. The 80s/90s Spider-Man comics up to right around when Carnage showed up were absolutely not like that. Rather, he was in a pretty good place with his life, between being happily married and still managing his Spider-Man gig. And the stories, shockingly, were still entertaining, even when he wasn't constantly bemoaning his crappy life.

If people genuinely don't want to see the character happy, or grow out of his "loser" phase, that says an awful lot more about them, the way I see it. I feel like you gotta let these guys have SOMEthing to live for besides "the fight". Things can go right for them sometimes, it shouldn't be verboten.

I'll gladly take "happy and devoted husband" over "God, my life sucks" as a defining characteristic of Spider-Man, all day every day. But that's me.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:54 AM   #102
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I'll gladly take "happy and devoted husband" over "God, my life sucks" as a defining characteristic of Spider-Man, all day every day. But that's me.
I think that's just everyone in the public consciousness mate, Marvel just don't want to feed us that because only a select few know how to write for it.

Hell, look at what DC are doing with Superman currently, they broke up the very healthy super family, put Lois and Clark in a weird long-distance marriage where Lois no longer needs him or her son and puts writing a book above both, and are turning Jon into an angsty teen brat. Neither company knows how to hold their nerve with consistent happiness for fear it turns away audiences.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:25 AM   #103
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I mean, Peter’s entire character and foundation is predicated on “god, my life sucks”. That’s what made him different from every other superhero - seeing him not only experience the normal, everyday issues that real people live with, but find a way to move past or overcome those issues. That’s what makes him an inspiration.

Peter can be married, sure, but that’s never been what makes him special.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:31 AM   #104
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I mean, Peter’s entire character and foundation is predicated on “god, my life sucks”.
No. It. Isn't.

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That’s what made him different from every other superhero - seeing him not only experience the normal, everyday issues that real people live with, but find a way to move past or overcome those issues.
He dealt with a legal separation from MJ in the 2000s...but did they divorce? No, they fought tooth and nail for their love and reunited.

His child was stillborn, but in RYV, he and MJ overcame their grief and conceived another

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Peter can be married, sure, but that’s never been what makes him special.
Just shut the f*ck up already. Marriage was...no, IS, a very unique part of what makes Peter so likeable. If Stan thought the way you did, he wouldn't have married him and MJ in the first place. Stop swallowing Quesada's Kool-Aid.

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Old 12-07-2018, 08:39 AM   #105
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No. It. Isn't.
Yes, it is. He was created in contrast to the average comicbook hero at the time, who had good looks, a healthy family, a hot girlfriend. Stan had Ditko draw him, so he appeared as a skinny loser, as opposed to another Jack Kirby model.

It’s not that Peter can’t ever find happiness or have a good marriage, it’s that he is in no way dependent on that as a character, and in fact, has always dealt with great tragedy and unfavorable circumstances.

If you like a married Peter, that’s fine, but expect to raise a few eyebrows when you claim he’s been utterly ruined as a character because he went through a divorce.

He’s not “the married superhero”, he’s “the Everyman”.

If you want to disagree, all due respect, but “No.It.Isnt” isn’t really worth a bucket of piss, to be frank.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:45 AM   #106
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No. It. Isn't.



He dealt with a legal separation from MJ in the 2000s...but did they divorce? No, they fought tooth and nail for their love and reunited.

His child was stillborn, but in RYV, he and MJ overcame their grief and conceived another



Just shut the f*ck up already. Marriage was...no, IS, a very unique part of what makes Peter so likeable. If Stan thought the way you did, he wouldn't have married him and MJ in the first place. Stop swallowing Quesada's Kool-Aid.
Am I personally offending you? Try to be rational about this if you’re going to respond to me.

You said, but deleted that I need to "stop drinking Quesada's Kool-Aid".
Nah, Quesada’s kool-aid was that Peter had to be youthful and that going through a divorce would make him seem old. Thus the overly-complicated and hard-to-digest “Brand New Day” explanation.

Quesada wanted him forever young anyway possible, whereas, I don’t mind an old, dad-bod, divorced, in his mid-thirties Peter, at all.
Get your facts straight.

Marriage is not what makes Peter likeable, on any measurable scale, lmao. Look at the success of any Spider-Man story of the last decade or more, besides Renew Your Vows, which barely exists anyway. It may be what makes him likebale to you, sure. Too bad, if that’s the case.

Honestly, 99% of the people who pine for the marriage are just chasing their childhood and how it was then.

Would I have preferred Peter to still be married to MJ instead of Brand New Day?
You bet. I hate the way that was executed and had no inherent problem with Peter being married. But I’ve never fooled myself into thinking that being married is wha makes Spider-Man a special character.

Last edited by AquaParade; 12-07-2018 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:53 PM   #107
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I'd like to apologise, I shouldn't have snapped at you like that. I'm just very passionate about Peter and MJ, I've grown up on their relationship and it just hurts to see such a unique and loving pairing frequently put through the needless wringer. TI also never dealt with One More Day very well, and it contributed to a mental breakdown I had in 2010. Thankfully the ongoing positive depiction of the marriage in the newspaper strip and across books like Spider-Girl and Renew Your Vows helped pull me out of that funk.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:05 AM   #108
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I'd like to apologise, I shouldn't have snapped at you like that. I'm just very passionate about Peter and MJ, I've grown up on their relationship and it just hurts to see such a unique and loving pairing frequently put through the needless wringer. TI also never dealt with One More Day very well, and it contributed to a mental breakdown I had in 2010. Thankfully the ongoing positive depiction of the marriage in the newspaper strip and across books like Spider-Girl and Renew Your Vows helped pull me out of that funk.
Appreciate it. No worries.

Iíve been meaning to check out some of the hardcover collections of the newspaper strip. Maybe Iíll finally do that.

Saw the film, btw. A lot of fun. If anyone is interested, I highly encourage them to check it out. Possibly my favorite Spider-Man film, following Spider-Man 2. Still too early to truly say.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:24 AM   #109
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Appreciate it. No worries.

Iíve been meaning to check out some of the hardcover collections of the newspaper strip. Maybe Iíll finally do that.

Saw the film, btw. A lot of fun. If anyone is interested, I highly encourage them to check it out. Possibly my favorite Spider-Man film, following Spider-Man 2. Still too early to truly say.
It's won quite a few awards already too. Glad you had a good time.
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:15 PM   #110
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Thoughts?
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:27 AM   #111
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I saw it this past Friday at one of the early screenings and thought it was not only one of the best spider-man movies (right up there with Spider-Man 2), but the best super hero film of the year and best animated film of the year too.

Years from now we will think about super hero and animated films both in terms of pre and post Into The Spider-Verse... it's impact will be massive.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:29 PM   #112
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I saw it this past Friday at one of the early screenings and thought it was not only one of the best spider-man movies (right up there with Spider-Man 2), but the best super hero film of the year and best animated film of the year too.

Years from now we will think about super hero and animated films both in terms of pre and post Into The Spider-Verse... it's impact will be massive.
While it didn’t have that effect on me, I agree that it was fantastic. I guess i would just say: don’t write this film off. If you love comic book films, it’s hard to imagine you won’t enjoy this. It deserves as much attention as any other Spider-Man film, live action, or otherwise, and arguably surpasses most, if not all, of them.

Spider-Man 2 is still my favorite, though it’s tangled with Nostalgia and heart-warming memories, which makes it hard to be objective. In my mind, Spider-Man 2 is the GOAT, while this and Homecoming are damn good Spider-Man films. The rest, I can take or leave.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:35 PM   #113
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This is the best Spiderman movie, hands down. So much freedom and beautiful art, added with witty writing.

Second is Homecoming/Civil War, third is Amazing Spiderman series and last is Raimi (I blame Tobey for being an unwatchable awful actor).
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:57 PM   #114
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I notice that there's always an inverse ratio of people's enjoyment of Spider-Man movies in recent years, when compared to how closely those films do or don't resemble the comics.

"Interesting".
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:24 PM   #115
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Surprise Of The Year: Sony Animation’s ‘Spider-Man’ Has Emerged As Oscar Frontrunner https://www.cartoonbrew.com/awards/s...er-167766.html

Told ya it’s the best Spiderman movie.
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