Tmntentity discussing New Tmnt Comics with Thinking Critical

[staypuftweepel]

I use to read tmntentity all of the time so I was pleased to see Mark show up on my YouTube feed discussing the new IDW comics with Thinking Critical. I haven’t listened to the whole thing yet, but thought others might be interested. I don’t know if Mark posts here often so I didn’t know what he’s been up to, I was happy to see this because I’ve been wondering what his take was on the new IDW issues because I’ve respected his blog so much in the past.

https://youtu.be/uqZnD3jj2iI

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I miss the TMNT Entity website. Just when Mark Pellegrini was about to review the final Season 4 episodes of the 4 Kids cartoon, the updates ended.

[AquaParade]

I'm too drunk on The Last Ronin to pay it any mind. Jennika can have turtle babies for all I care.

[staypuftweepel]

Last Ronin is great so far! I just with it was coming out sooner, but then I guess I wouldn’t have much to look forward to after that.

[Allio]

As a fan of IDW’s ghostbusters I do say they give the 2016 too much credit for the death of the line. IDW’s GB was always Dying.

And that doesn’t mean much when Crossing over was an ensemble team of Ghost Busters where out of the all female team only Holtzman was the only one of significant of that group. And 35 was a mini where 4 teams got an issue (IDW, Gets real, extreme and 2016) 5 if you include ghostbusters 20/20 (which featured Sanctum of Slime team)

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by staypuftweepel

Last Ronin is great so far! I just with it was coming out sooner, but then I guess I wouldn’t have much to look forward to after that.

True. It's very slow. I'm glad they are taking time but it's painful. Tom Waltz shares a lot of previews on his Twitter though.

[hypered1]

Well that's half an hour my life wasted.
Most of what they said about Jennika's creation was just plain wrong (we've already seen Tom Waltz discuss her creation and it's nothing like what was said in the video) and then they spent an age speculating about recent sales figures when such information simply isn't available so they just make up their own numbers to suit their argument, completely dismissing the fact that over the past 15 months during the pandemic comics are hardly going to have been a priority purchase for most people. Nothing but a diatribe of disingenuousness.

I agree the pacing has been slower than previously but it hasn't been one continuous arc either: 101-105 - fallout from CAW, 106-108 - slithery, 109-111 - smaller loosely connected events and 112-117 - Tokka/ Rahzar vs Bebop/rocksteady and the band battle. The story has been steadily progressing the whole time and it's very clear that Saki's return has been deliberately saved for the next arc for the 10th anniversary of the series. Sophie was given the reigns for a couple of years whilst Tom and Bobby have more than likely planning the next big plots moving forwards.

I for one am still enjoying the series as are plenty of others and I can't wait to see where it goes next.

[staypuftweepel]

Originally Posted by hypered1

Well that's half an hour my life wasted.
Most of what they said about Jennika's creation was just plain wrong (we've already seen Tom Waltz discuss her creation and it's nothing like what was said in the video) and then they spent an age speculating about recent sales figures when such information simply isn't available so they just make up their own numbers to suit their argument, completely dismissing the fact that over the past 15 months during the pandemic comics are hardly going to have been a priority purchase for most people. Nothing but a diatribe of disingenuousness.

I agree the pacing has been slower than previously but it hasn't been one continuous arc either: 101-105 - fallout from CAW, 106-108 - slithery, 109-111 - smaller loosely connected events and 112-117 - Tokka/ Rahzar vs Bebop/rocksteady and the band battle. The story has been steadily progressing the whole time and it's very clear that Saki's return has been deliberately saved for the next arc for the 10th anniversary of the series. Sophie was given the reigns for a couple of years whilst Tom and Bobby have more than likely planning the next big plots moving forwards.

I for one am still enjoying the series as are plenty of others and I can't wait to see where it goes next.

I disagree. All of those story arcs you mentioned are hardly worth much of anything because they don’t feel like anything impactful. It’s been one long slog while little things happen. The turtles have been sidelined and hardly do anything. The battle of the bands thing is one of the lamest things to hit Tmnt comics that I can think of. It’s so cliche and boring. Even making Jennika into a punk rocker girl is like the most cliche thing you can do with her. She is literally just like every other female character in comics right now.

The pandemic didn’t effect people’s buying habits at all. More people are buying collectibles now than they were before the pandemic. Prices are going up and you can’t even go to a store and buy trading cards or toys, because more and more people are looking for them. The Last Ronin sold a ton of comics and it was more expensive than the on going series. People can’t go to bars, movies, concerts, or whatever so they spend more money on entertainment.

If you like it, that’s fine, but even here it seems like the same 3 people defend it while others talk about how unhappy they are with it. I think a lot of people at this point are buying the comic because they just want to buy everything they can that’s Tmnt. I know I am.

[CyberCubed]

Can someone provide me cliff notes of the video?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Can someone provide me cliff notes of the video?

• Pacing has always been a bit of a problem but thought it still had enough tension to keep things interesting.
• Sophie's run is unreadable and boring because there isn't any real tension anymore.
• Slice of life only really works in small doses for books like these.
• Jennika herself is a terrible character who was turned into a DA-tier cringe OC, that is to say even an even worse character after her mutation.
• It is unlikely that the book will be fixed because IDW tends to let books fail, the example being the GB comics refusing to stop using the 2016 characters despite being really unpopular.
• The Campbell run was selling poorly last time we could see the real numbers and we can't see the real numbers right now, but it probably does worse right now.

That is essentially what they say.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by staypuftweepel

If you like it, that’s fine, but even here it seems like the same 3 people defend it while others talk about how unhappy they are with it. I think a lot of people at this point are buying the comic because they just want to buy everything they can that’s Tmnt. I know I am.

Right? It amazes me how hard it seems to be for the apologists to admit and accept that MOST people - a very, very wide majority of people - simply don't like, don't want, and can't stand this stuff. And all they offer in rebuttal is, "Well *I* like it!" Alright, they and their five friends who like it can all buy twenty copies each and try and keep the book afloat all by themselves. Everybody else is going to either ignore it completely, OR read it and voice their opinion that it sucks.

Those five people can't change the fact that to MOST people, this isn't what a TMNT comic should be. And they're cheerleading it right into the gutter with their defense of something that doesn't deserve it.

Originally Posted by neatoman

• Pacing has always been a bit of a problem but thought it still had enough tension to keep things interesting.
• Sophie's run is unreadable and boring because there isn't any real tension anymore.
• Slice of life only really works in small doses for books like these.
• Jennika herself is a terrible character who was turned into a DA-tier cringe OC, that is to say even an even worse character after her mutation.
• It is unlikely that the book will be fixed because IDW tends to let books fail, the example being the GB comics refusing to stop using the 2016 characters despite being really unpopular.
• The Campbell run was selling poorly last time we could see the real numbers and we can't see the real numbers right now, but it probably does worse right now.

That is essentially what they say.

And none of it can really be argued with, either.

I wonder how it makes the apologists for this book feel, to know that IDW has been publishing My Little Pony for almost as long as they've been publishing TMNT, but goddamn MLP of all things is ridiculously more popular and sells a ton more books on a regular and consistent basis. The MLP fan in me takes some satisfaction in that - and the books really are quite good - but the TMNT fan in me is embarrassed beyond belief that this is how far that brand has fallen, to the point where it would need a metaphorical rocket up its ass to even sell as many comics as MLP. That's a shameful state of affairs.

The biggest dividing line between them would be, the MLP comics are everything they should be and everything a fan of that franchise would want. The TMNT books are... NOT that. At all. And they haven't been for a long time. And yeah, it'll probably get cancelled before they ever have a chance to right the ship.

They won't blame the creative team, though. They'll blame the ungrateful fans for not buying a book they hated just to support a brand name sticker.

Shame.

[oldmanwinters]

Good interview, Spengs!

[Zog The Magnificent]

It was nice to hear from Spengler again. I was always sad that I'd never get to hear his take on all the recent TMNT comics since the website stopped. It's a shame that after everything this book has been through, it may very well succumb to the same wokeness that's destroying everything else these days, and once again join the ranks of unceremonius cancellations that have plagued literally every TMNT comic. I thought this would finally be the one to have a solid ending, but if It keeps going like this it it's just going to die.

[staypuftweepel]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

It was nice to hear from Spengler again. I was always sad that I'd never get to hear his take on all the recent TMNT comics since the website stopped. It's a shame that after everything this book has been through, it may very well succumb to the same wokeness that's destroying everything else these days, and once again join the ranks of unceremonius cancellations that have plagued literally every TMNT comic. I thought this would finally be the one to have a solid ending, but if It keeps going like this it it's just going to die.

It just wouldn’t be a Tmnt comic unless it was canceled without leaving a ton of plot lines unresolved.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by neatoman

• Pacing has always been a bit of a problem but thought it still had enough tension to keep things interesting.
• Sophie's run is unreadable and boring because there isn't any real tension anymore.
• Slice of life only really works in small doses for books like these.
• Jennika herself is a terrible character who was turned into a DA-tier cringe OC, that is to say even an even worse character after her mutation.
• It is unlikely that the book will be fixed because IDW tends to let books fail, the example being the GB comics refusing to stop using the 2016 characters despite being really unpopular.
• The Campbell run was selling poorly last time we could see the real numbers and we can't see the real numbers right now, but it probably does worse right now.

That is essentially what they say.

Also...

• Supporting "The Last Ronin" probably won't "send a message" to IDW that that's the kind of TMNT content you want.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Sure it will. The sales on the book are huge and because of that, we will see more.

Their argument is that the reasons that all of the things that people generally dislike about the IDW current run appear to be based in a kind of religion of ideology... and that IDW would rather watch it be cancelled than change course. i.e., this is why "The Last Ronin" wouldn't move the meter either way (though could undoubtedly lead to more "The Last Ronin" spinoff stuff).

[Leo656]

I agree with Andrew. IDW would rather see the book go down in flames so long as it was "on the right side of history" before they'd be seen as caving in to a "problematic" and "less progressive" group of fans.

They honestly don't seem to care much about what makes money when it comes to TMNT. They've done the exact opposite for so long - and even doubled-down and flat-out told fans to take a leap if they don't like the direction - that they're clearly at peace with it. I'm sure they're happy that Last Ronin gave them an influx of cash but they'd just as soon write it off as an aberration.

It is what it is. Conventional business practices and common sense don't seem to be what's guiding the business decisions regarding the TMNT book.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I agree with Andrew. IDW would rather see the book go down in flames so long as it was "on the right side of history" before they'd be seen as caving in to a "problematic" and "less progressive" group of fans.

It's not really my opinion... I just think that's what Mark was saying in that video. I haven't read the IDW main book in ages so I don't really have one.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Their argument is that the reasons that all of the things that people generally dislike about the IDW current run appear to be based in a kind of religion of ideology... and that IDW would rather watch it be cancelled than change course. i.e., this is why "The Last Ronin" wouldn't move the meter either way (though could undoubtedly lead to more "The Last Ronin" spinoff stuff).

Sorry, I thought you were proposing that idea, mistakenly, which is why I deleted the post. I hear ya. Yeah, definitely disagree with them. The Last Ronin made money and we will see more of it. It is literally their top-selling book of all time, at double the size and price of a typical issue.
I wouldn't bet on them throwing that down the drain for some kind of "ideology", even if it makes for an interesting discussion. Companies typically chase ideologies for money, they don't chase money for ideologies.

I was speculating on this some more, and I wouldn't be surprised if Nickelodeon was now pushing Jennika a bit. Maybe they feel the loss in sales is worth it if Jennika ends up slowly catching on. I know Tom has made it clear that the character wasn't a Nick/Viacom mandate, but maybe they are big supporters of the character and are pushing for her to be the main focus of that book. Hell, maybe it was part of the 'tit for tat' when it came to greenlighting the gritty, adult Last Ronin book.
All just wild speculation - not to be taken too seriously.

[oldmanwinters]

This summed it up so well:

"You can have any Ninja Turtle comic you want, so long as it's about Jennika."