Krang

[mikey0]

Does anyone on here agree with me that Krang should have been a part of the first basic assortment of the original TMNT figures?

Here is my fantasy original TMNT lineup for 1988:

Basic Assortment: Same as the actual one plus Krang

Vehicles: Cheapskate, Party Wagon, Turtle Blimp, Knucklehead, Original [Unreleased] Technodrome

Giant Figures: Krang’s Android Body

Playsets: Sewer Playset, Technodrome

Other: Every Gags, Jokes and Crazy Weapons set, Retromutagen Ooze, Retromutagen Foot Ooze


Krang was obviously an integral part of the Fred Wolf mini-series, syndicated series, and both versions CBS Saturday morning cartoon. Do you think adding Krang would have taken away from Shredder being the main villain in the first wave? On one hand, Playmates would have to change the backstory of the turtles featured on the back of the package. On the other hand, the first wave with Krang in it would have been perfect for obscure 80s toy collectors and 20th century toy collectors alike if the cartoon failed during its regular run in the fall of 1988.

Would you change the original release date to Krang or not?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The modules didn't appear in the cartoon until 1989. All you had back in 1988 were the Technodrome drill elevators from the cartoon and Archie adaptation.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The modules didn't appear in the cartoon until 1989. All you had back in 1988 were the Technodrome drill elevators from the cartoon and Archie adaptation.

It has been removed. Thank you.

[inaheap]

The thinking was if you put all the big characters in the first wave there is no incentive to buy wave two. Fortunately, we got wave 2. Bucky O' Hare fans had to wait 27 years for Jenny.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by inaheap

The thinking was if you put all the big characters in the first wave there is no incentive to buy wave two. Fortunately, we got wave 2. Bucky O' Hare fans had to wait 27 years for Jenny.

Unfortunately, historians are treating the original Playmates toy line as if it worked best as a one wave toy line. The most sought after collectibles from the original 1988 toy line that both casual adult collectors and sellers know of are the soft heads. 1989 was the start of take or leave characters from each new basic assortment coming down the pipeline. The most wanted figures from the original ‘88 toy line during Turtlemania 1990 and shortly afterward were the repros of the original turtles.

In a way, Krang is not on the level of any of the evil doers from the first wave. Also, Krang was the last 80s Turtles figure to be sculpted with paint-less pupils like Splinter was. Krang does not quite fit in with the overly detailed and gross Baxter Stockman or cartoony Ace Duck and Genghis Frog. Krang was the best wave 2 figure. Krang in Bubble Walker and Baxter Stockman did not have variants like Ace Duck and Genghis Frog did, so some toy collectors and sellers gloss over those two figures.

Buyers of a fantasy first wave like I mentioned would have all of the important characters for their cartoon set. I really should not have bothered with this thread because it’s like ‘crying over spilled milk’. A part of me did not like that Krang got the shaft from the first wave when so many people know the Fred Wolf cartoon for the swordplay between Shredder and Krang, but it all makes sense now that you told me that. After all, Shredder appeared in the earliest issues of the Mirage Studios comic book along with the Foot and you needed his two henchmen in the cartoon, so they were a given for the first wave. The original toy line really took on a new life from 1989 to 1997.

As for Bucky ‘O Hare, that never took off because Xennials and Millennials had TMNT by then. The console wars took over completely in the 1991 to 1992 TV season. We were starting to leave the early 90s at that time. There was more backlash against the Turtles from 1991 to 1992 after their big year of the early 90s and a half (1990 and early 1991). Willy Dewitt was the April ‘O Neil of the first wave, so Hasbro held off on Jenny for the second wave. Thankfully, there are mint in package and loose incomplete versions of the unreleased second wave TSAOBOH Jenny are up for sale online, but you have to find one in a long list of Jennys that consist largely of the Boss Studios Jenny figure that is out of scale with the ‘91 Hasbro figures.

[TheCanadiandrome]

I love your line-up

[DarkAtuin]

@inaheap
Whoah that's actually the best argument I heard about that thing so far.

It also might explain why I have such a hard time remembering the full cast of lines after series 3 (that still had a couple of somewhat important characters, although none of them played a big role in the MWS series).

There's also the odd thing that Krang's Bubble Walker (the thing that his '89 figure is based upon) didn't appear in the show for a very long time (mid season 3, wasn't it ?). I guess they were still fiddling out how to actually make a Krang figure at that time, delaying his release further.

Also try look for some early concept art for some of these characters and Playmates' influence on the '87 cartoon - some things were planned out quite differently to what we're used at today.

Bebop was planned as an alien bounty hunter called 'Hogjaw' from Dimension X specialised on hunting mutants.

Rocksteady's original design that's still prevalent on his original figure as well as his appearance in the first 5 episodes was more that of a military soldier than a street punk.

Casey Jones was planned as having an even more obscure sports fanatic theme going and so on.

Now I am kind of curious what the concept art for the '87 Foot Soldier was like, given their weird description as 'Shredder's Right Hand Mummy' on their cardback bio...

EDIT:
Oh and do you know that image that implied that they originally planned to have Mikey's and Donnie's colors to be switched between them (orange/dark green Donnie and purple/brown Mikey)

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by inaheap

The thinking was if you put all the big characters in the first wave there is no incentive to buy wave two. Fortunately, we got wave 2. Bucky O' Hare fans had to wait 27 years for Jenny.

Actually I think I can safely say that the thinking was to launch a line with the characters with the most play value and pegboard recognizably.

Krang was a talking brain and that was about it. When compared to the other wave 1 figures, he had diminished play value through the eyes of manufacturer marketing and parents were more likely to buy a ninja looking Shredder than a weird, gross brain creature. For anyone who argues that Krang's body gave him more play value, I'd say that the body was an oversized add-on and so it would've naturally been included later when the line could sustain larger accessories.

It had nothing to do with saving him for later waves. That particular thought is more akin to modern manufacturing of retro lines for nostalgia value. It creates "hangers on" for a line via nostalgia.

But back then it was about play value and launch practicality because toy manufacturers were selling to people who played with the product. Now toy manufacturers sell to people who put their product on display.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by TheCanadiandrome

I love your line-up

Thank you. I was thinking of the ideal fantasy releases for casual customers who generally like the Fred Wolf series.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by DarkAtuin

@inaheap
Whoah that's actually the best argument I heard about that thing so far.

It also might explain why I have such a hard time remembering the full cast of lines after series 3 (that still had a couple of somewhat important characters, although none of them played a big role in the MWS series).

There's also the odd thing that Krang's Bubble Walker (the thing that his '89 figure is based upon) didn't appear in the show for a very long time (mid season 3, wasn't it ?). I guess they were still fiddling out how to actually make a Krang figure at that time, delaying his release further.

Also try look for some early concept art for some of these characters and Playmates' influence on the '87 cartoon - some things were planned out quite differently to what we're used at today.

Bebop was planned as an alien bounty hunter called 'Hogjaw' from Dimension X specialised on hunting mutants.

Rocksteady's original design that's still prevalent on his original figure as well as his appearance in the first 5 episodes was more that of a military soldier than a street punk.

Casey Jones was planned as having an even more obscure sports fanatic theme going and so on.

Now I am kind of curious what the concept art for the '87 Foot Soldier was like, given their weird description as 'Shredder's Right Hand Mummy' on their cardback bio...

EDIT:
Oh and do you know that image that implied that they originally planned to have Mikey's and Donnie's colors to be switched between them (orange/dark green Donnie and purple/brown Mikey)

The third series had the most allies and villains who appeared in the third season of the Fred Wolf cartoon. Rat King, Metalhead, Usagi Yojimbo, Casey Jones, and Leatherhead. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. The four waves that came after the third wave seems to stem from the third wave, but only a small number of the oddball characters in the 1990 and 1991 were added to the CBS Saturday morning Fred Wolf series. The third wave from late 1989 was the last basic assortment that MWS cartoon fans can remember easily. There was never another wave like the third wave from ‘89 ever again in the toy line. One could argue that the third wave was their high point, but most toy buyers only know the original toy line for mainly the first ever wave from 1988.

[DarkAtuin]

What I consider the third series is the basic Figure line-Up of 1990 (Slash, Triceraton, Fugitoid, Napoleon, Wingnut, Muckman, Mutagen Man, Pizzaface, Ray Fillet, Scumbug, Mondo Gecko, Panda Khan).

The Second Series for me is the 1989 line-up of 10 figures (it also lines up more with the 10 figures from series 1 that way) consisting of Krang, Baxter, Casey, Rat King, Leatherhead, Traag, Metalhead, Usagi, Genghis and Ace Duck.

I know that certain figures within these waves were released slightly earlier than others in a similar fashion to the 2012 Nick line, but meh... I consider that type of over-distinguishing far too messy and impractical for such discussions.

Just for claring up terminology, no offense or anything intended

But since you mention it, it's an interesting thing how Playmates separated the 1989 series, as Ace Duck was among the very first of them together with Krang and Baxter.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Actually I think I can safely say that the thinking was to launch a line with the characters with the most play value and pegboard recognizably.

Krang was a talking brain and that was about it. When compared to the other wave 1 figures, he had diminished play value through the eyes of manufacturer marketing and parents were more likely to buy a ninja looking Shredder than a weird, gross brain creature. For anyone who argues that Krang's body gave him more play value, I'd say that the body was an oversized add-on and so it would've naturally been included later when the line could sustain larger accessories.

It had nothing to do with saving him for later waves. That particular thought is more akin to modern manufacturing of retro lines for nostalgia value. It creates "hangers on" for a line via nostalgia.

But back then it was about play value and launch practicality because toy manufacturers were selling to people who played with the product. Now toy manufacturers sell to people who put their product on display.

Krang was like the Orko of the 1982 Mattel MOTU toy line when you think about it. That’s why Playmates included Krang in the second wave after the toy line was getting off ground in late ‘88 and early 1989.

Still, this toy line can be divided into two main factions — the first one being when the line was a wackier spoof of the 1982 Mattel MOTU toy line [1988] and the other half being when it became the Madballs style gross follow-up to the wildly successful first wave (1989 to 1997). The original Playmates toy line never recovered from ‘the second wave test’. The second basic assortment became the blueprint for every basic assortment after it. The best basic assortments after the first ever one was the third (last quarter of 1989) and fifth (third quarter of 1990) waves. For some reason, my mind has me believing the sixth wave was the shortest wave because I forget that the Storage Shell turtles, Chromedome, Wyrm, and Walkabout were all in that wave. I believe Dirtbag and Groundchuck were in the cartoon whereas the others were not, so that could be the reason for that. The last short wave similar to the second wave (second quarter of 1989) was the fourth wave (second or early third quarter of 1990) with Muckman, Wingnut, Mondo Gecko, and Scumbug (all appeared in the CBS MWS series at different points) in it. Mondo Gecko was the only character to have an American toy variant, IIRC.

Kenner might have released Krang in the first wave if they produced Turtles figures in the 80s and 90s like Playmates did, but Playmates was a new company in the 1980s and very early 90s (to a certain degree). Playmates didn’t want to take the risks that Kenner did with the first Star Wars toy line.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by DarkAtuin

What I consider the third series is the basic Figure line-Up of 1990 (Slash, Triceraton, Fugitoid, Napoleon, Wingnut, Muckman, Mutagen Man, Pizzaface, Ray Fillet, Scumbug, Mondo Gecko, Panda Khan).

The Second Series for me is the 1989 line-up of 10 figures (it also lines up more with the 10 figures from series 1 that way) consisting of Krang, Baxter, Casey, Rat King, Leatherhead, Traag, Metalhead, Usagi, Genghis and Ace Duck.

I know that certain figures within these waves were released slightly earlier than others in a similar fashion to the 2012 Nick line, but meh... I consider that type of over-distinguishing far too messy and impractical for such discussions.

Just for claring up terminology, no offense or anything intended

But since you mention it, it's an interesting thing how Playmates separated the 1989 series, as Ace Duck was among the very first of them together with Krang and Baxter.

I see where you are coming from. It’s easier to classify them by year like The Virtual TMNT Museum online does. The back of the packages and commercials from the late 80s and early 90s dictates that the ‘89 and ‘90 releases were sold as sets at different times within those years nonetheless.

Ace Duck was definitely “the preview figure” of the second wave. The release of Ace Duck gave toy buyers of the very late 80s a small hint of what was to come later on in the toy line. Toy companies sold “preview figures” every now and then in the 80s and 90s. The last “preview figures” that stick out for me are Mace Windu and the Battle Droid on the STAP from 1998. Of course, the words “Sneak Preview” were on those 1998 Kenner figures setting them apart from the others. That was not the case with Ace Duck. There was not any media at the time of the release of Ace Duck for any buyers of that toy. You had to go by what was on the filecard then for Ace Duck. The same thing was done for Muckman in 1990, Chromedome in 1991, and figures like Anthrax and Hot Spot in 1992 and ‘93. The last basic assortment in 1994 (Robotic Foot Soldier and the small Krang’s Android Body)was made to grab any remaining fans of the FW series, but children of the 80s and 90s moved on by then.

The original Playmates toy line was last really interesting in 1990. The fifth wave works as one large send off to fans of the FW cartoon, Mirage Comics series, and original Playmates toy line overall. The two basic waves that followed the fifth wave were subpar and the other ones from 1992 to 1994 were hit or miss. A Zak the Neutrino figure was not really needed for the toy line. The release of that one figure, Zak, is what drove the whole line off of the deep end for some collectors, I imagine, because then the Toon Turtles line had to be launched. The influx of sub-waves like Toon Turtles is what made it harder for collectors of the original TMNT line to find the basic assortment characters and it ultimately killed off the line. The Wacky Action turtles were better fill-ins for the originals than any sub-wave Turtles that came after them though.

Bottomline

1988-1990: The best of the toy line

1991-1997: It all becomes questionable

[MrPliggins]

Krang was kind of a "surprise" in season 1. He was revealed slowly, and when Michelangelo met him in season 1 no one believed him. Then his backstory was slowly revealed throughout the season. Had there been an initial figure, the surprise would have been gone. It would have also destroyed the reveal of his body (if said figure included his body).
Maybe another reason was that producing Krang at regular size with his body would have been too expensive for the first assortment.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by MrPliggins

Krang was kind of a "surprise" in season 1. He was revealed slowly, and when Michelangelo met him in season 1 no one believed him. Then his backstory was slowly revealed throughout the season. Had there been an initial figure, the surprise would have been gone. It would have also destroyed the reveal of his body (if said figure included his body).
Maybe another reason was that producing Krang at regular size with his body would have been too expensive for the first assortment.

Good point.

With the vehicles releases from ‘88, there was not very much room for Krang’s Android Body either on any shelf. Playmates could have pulled it off, but their store displays would be a lot different from how they actually were in 1988.

I still think Krang should have been sold immediately after the Giant Turtles were in stores (second quarter of 1990) and not months later from when Giant Bebop and Rocksteady made it to stores (third quarter of 1991). Playmates was trying to pull back in children who enjoyed watching the cartoon from the beginning with their late 1991 releases like Zak the Neutrino, Turtle Blimp 2, Giant Bebop, Giant Rocksteady, Krang’s Android Body, and the off the wall Wacky Action variants of Bebop and Rocksteady. Unfortunately for Playmates, their stock fell tremendously after the Sewer Sports All Stars Turtles were in stores and they never recovered to where they were in 1990 at no point in the 90s or even the up to today after that bad move. It’s as if the original Playmates toy line died in the fall of 1991 for the collectors that were with it since the very beginning [June of 1988]. The ever pointless Sewer Sports All Stars Turtles were really the death knell for the 1988 Turtles line.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by MrPliggins

Krang was kind of a "surprise" in season 1. He was revealed slowly, and when Michelangelo met him in season 1 no one believed him. Then his backstory was slowly revealed throughout the season. Had there been an initial figure, the surprise would have been gone. It would have also destroyed the reveal of his body (if said figure included his body).
Maybe another reason was that producing Krang at regular size with his body would have been too expensive for the first assortment.

The first action figures were released in June 1988, nearly 6 month after the end of season 1. However, it predicted Baxter Stockman becoming a fly with five months.

https://ew.com/article/1990/03/30/te...atre-near-you/

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The first action figures were released in June 1988, nearly 6 month after the end of season 1. However, it predicted Baxter Stockman becoming a fly with five months.

https://ew.com/article/1990/03/30/te...atre-near-you/

Playmates releasing Genghis Frog for the same basic assortment as Baxter was perfect, but sadly, the points of articulation, paint apps, and cartoon style of the Genghis sets it apart from the figures that came out nearly 10 or 12 months before the action figure. The highly detailed Baxter Stockman is in a different league from both the wave one figures and every ally in wave two (Ace Duck and Genghis Frog). Krang was clearly the only must have figure from the second wave. The original Playmates toy line was going through an identity crisis during the second wave. Krang looked to be the only one that displayed well with the wave one villains. Baxter was too bulky and detailed. I’m surprised Playmates did not stamp the Foot symbol on the back of Baxter to let parents, doctors, and teachers of the 80s and 90s know that the figure belonged to the 1988 TMNT toy line. There’s a reason why historians tend to focus exclusively on the first wave of the original TMNT toy line and that’s it (everything that came afterward never matched up).