New Interview with Sophie Campbell from Comicon.com

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Leo656

For once, I agree with sdp. If you haven't liked the last two years, it's dumb to stick around and complain, they don't care what you think and they don't want your money. Sure, if you leave there might not be a TMNT comic in two years to come back to, but again, that's the path they've chosen and they don't seem overly concerned about it. If they measure "success" in terms of Twitter followers and Tumblristas, rather than dollars and cents, and they want to stay on that path indefinitely, the smart thing to do if you don't like it is just walk away.

I'm not giving up. Just moving to Palm Beach.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I completely agree with ALL of this. I may be enjoying the novelty of Tokka and Rahzar, and I'm glad we're finally getting SOME movement with Hob.

But holy $hit, Mutant Town has been a stagnant slog. And the four OG Turtles are barely characters anymore. And IDW was already using them as supporting characters in their own damn series.

Yeah, at least the last couple of issues have started to take tiny steps forward. But the floor isn't lava right now, it's molasses.

Originally Posted by Dejablue

I'm annoyed with the whole girl band thing. Not because its a girl band but because I thought this down time was supposed to service the brothers. Why isn't one of them trying to start a band?

Mikey and Mondo, baby! That's what it should've been about. Maybe introduce IDW Candy.

Is Mondo even in Mutant Town? He of all people should have an easy time sneaking in and out.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the better a Mondo/Candy relationship in this comic sounds. Jennika never spent any time with half the OG Mutanimals. Considering her rough patch with Casey after her mutation, how would she feel if she saw a mutant macking on a human, both part of a perfectly happy couple? The possibilities... Too bad we won't get any of that over more Turtledale ft. Jen and the Mutagrams.

[Dejablue]

Something like that would have taken time to set up. Mondo would have needed to be human first and in a relationship with Candy for a substantial amount of time before Mutant Town. So I can't fault the writers for something that minute. They clearly never had plans to introduce Candy Fine.

But yeah it could have been interesting to contrast Casey/Jennika vs Mondo/Candy where the later are just like "**** it, we can work with this."

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Something like that would have taken time to set up. Mondo would have needed to be human first and in a relationship with Candy for a substantial amount of time before Mutant Town. So I can't fault the writers for something that minute. They clearly never had plans to introduce Candy Fine.

But yeah it could have been interesting to contrast Casey/Jennika vs Mondo/Candy where the later are just like "**** it, we can work with this."

Not necessarily. It would be even more impactful and meaningful, especially for Jennika, if they had never met before and Candy just fell for Mondo as-is.

A band consisting of Mondo, Mikey, Jen and Mona. There's your Reptile Tendencies! (The name's a shout-out to the sick T-shirt Mondo wore way back before #50, even.) He, like the Burnow Island aliens, is a character we sorely need to catch up on before too long.

[Dejablue]

Speaking of Mondo. He hasn't been seen for a while and no longer a mutanimal. I know that group hemorrhaged members pretty badly. Only Herman, Man Ray, and Pete are still there.

I want to see Seymore get a new body in the future. There is obviously tech available to make him something cool looking.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Speaking of Mondo. He hasn't been seen for a while and no longer a mutanimal. I know that group hemorrhaged members pretty badly. Only Herman, Man Ray, and Pete are still there.

I want to see Seymore get a new body in the future. There is obviously tech available to make him something cool looking.

Hopefully we see them again whenever Null makes her move, they deserve to be involved in that. I feel that Seymour should even be the one to seal the deal on her eventual defeat as payback for what she made him into, it would make his failure to commit suicide during his introductory arc all the more significant.

[Wentos]

I thought the first few issues of Sophie's run had really compelling character drama, and I thought the Mutant Town status quo had a boatload of story potential, but then everyone patched things up and now the book is just... everyone getting along and things really aren't that bad? I was kind of expecting Escape From New York with mutant porcupines. Maybe we need more character drama if the action is getting dialed back? Something to keep readers turning the page. Even the Northampton stretch of the old Mirage comic had aliens and sea creatures to keep things lively.

I can't believe I'm saying this after IDW TMNT was so consumed with extraneous characters and subplots with Waltz, but this book really needs to be about something again. Here's hoping the latest issue gives this run the momentum it needs.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

And the four OG Turtles are barely characters anymore. And IDW was already using them as supporting characters in their own damn series.

I don't understand why this issue is so pervasive, but this was a problem with 2012 and Rise as well. Secondary characters get promoted to main characters while the turtles have to share the spotlight. The book is called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I'm here for the turtles! April is not a main character! Don't give other characters bandannas and pretend they're just as important! The four turtles are the stars! It's not hard, I promise!

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Wentos

I'm here for the turtles! April is not a main character! Don't give other characters bandannas and pretend they're just as important! The four turtles are the stars! It's not hard, I promise!

I mean I'm fine with April/Casey and Splinter getting screentime, they usually don't overshadow the Turtles anyway. There is much more focus however on the various villains and Hob in most story arcs, so that's where the issues come from.

[Dejablue]

I don't think it was that big of an issue in 2012. Or Rise for that matter. I mean besides the turtles who else was there? April and Casey? That's about it. I wouldn't even count Karai personally. I wouldn't count the Mutanimals either, they are secondary characters. And last I checked having those is good. Otherwise it's just the turtles with nobody else to interact with. That would get boring. Or do you just want the turtles kicking and punching in every episode, talking to nobody.

There is a big ass difference between characters existing, and "too many characters we don't know what to do with, and they are crowding out the main characters." Which with the inclusion of Lita, it really is starting to look like the glass is getting over full.

Most of my negative feelings about Lita really just stem from her being a turtle. Why a turtle. She could have been something else. IDW you got away with the one. But to just double dip like that is annoying. She's already albino, just make Lita an axolotl. But Campbell had to get a second turtle oc in. And no force on this earth was gonna stop her.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Wentos

I don't understand why this issue is so pervasive, but this was a problem with 2012 and Rise as well. Secondary characters get promoted to main characters while the turtles have to share the spotlight. The book is called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I'm here for the turtles! April is not a main character! Don't give other characters bandannas and pretend they're just as important! The four turtles are the stars! It's not hard, I promise!

What do you mean, four Turtles? There's a minimum of seven at any one point now, with more being introduced every few months. Are you not entertained?

I was expecting Saki to get more paneltime in order to balance out Splinter's absence, not to mention his role in the clan, but I certainly wasn't expecting this.

[Leo656]

I get a real kick outta you, man. Please post more often. I'm digging you more and more.

[DragonSoul]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Most of my negative feelings about Lita really just stem from her being a turtle. Why a turtle. She could have been something else. IDW you got away with the one. But to just double dip like that is annoying. She's already albino, just make Lita an axolotl. But Campbell had to get a second turtle oc in. And no force on this earth was gonna stop her.

I am going to go on a bit of a vent here...

This is probably my main issue with IDW TMNT-- the whole comic series just reads like an over bloated fanfiction. Practically all of the story arcs had history in fanfiction, they weren't necessarily good either or logical but it existed and was popular with a small subgroup of fans. Then IDW comes along and decides to publish these fanfiction stories without stopping to think if they should or if it really makes any sense at all.

I don't think Campbell is the main driver of these substandard plots as IDW TMNT is a group effort. However, I really think it sucks that none of them seem to stop and ask if this story even needs to be told. It also sucks that as a TMNT fan I can't enjoy most mediums of TMNT like the comics because they never seem to want to tell a darn good story that rethinks its own moral narratives. It is just the same old "anger bad" even though anger is an energy source that is pivotal to warrior cultures around the world. As well as "LGBTQ good" while ignoring the indigenous identities and colored identities that exist in New York...instead the torch is passed to Caucasian people who prefer to bed with people on the condition of what is between their legs. IDW TMNT brings no value in story or TMNT Lore.

BESIDES the Leatherhead and parasitic utrom arc (the only good thing). A tragic end for Leatherhead that is both terrifying and exhilarating for what can come next in terms of storytelling in the TMNT world. Perhaps Ch'rell and Saki lol.

[Dejablue]

Originally Posted by DragonSoul

I am going to go on a bit of a vent here...

This is probably my main issue with IDW TMNT-- the whole comic series just reads like an over bloated fanfiction. Practically all of the story arcs had history in fanfiction, they weren't necessarily good either or logical but it existed and was popular with a small subgroup of fans. Then IDW comes along and decides to publish these fanfiction stories without stopping to think if they should or if it really makes any sense at all.

I don't think Campbell is the main driver of these substandard plots as IDW TMNT is a group effort. However, I really think it sucks that none of them seem to stop and ask if this story even needs to be told. It also sucks that as a TMNT fan I can't enjoy most mediums of TMNT like the comics because they never seem to want to tell a darn good story that rethinks its own moral narratives. It is just the same old "anger bad" even though anger is an energy source that is pivotal to warrior cultures around the world. As well as "LGBTQ good" while ignoring the indigenous identities that exist on New York land...instead the torch is passed to Caucasian people who prefer to bed with people on the condition of what is between their legs. IDW TMNT brings no value in story or TMNT Lore.

BESIDES the Leatherhead and parasitic utrom arc (the only good thing). A tragic end for Leatherhead that is both terrifying and exhilarating for what can come next in terms of storytelling in the TMNT world. Perhaps Ch'rell and Saki lol.

Since you've said that now I'm curious to know your feelings on all the previous arcs.

[skylord]

Originally Posted by DragonSoul

As well as "LGBTQ good" while ignoring the indigenous identities and colored identities that exist in New York...instead the torch is passed to Caucasian people who prefer to bed with people on the condition of what is between their legs.

Props for making an argument about the quality of LGBTQ inclusion that addresses how it doesn't properly include intersectionality.

race allegory can never fully replace actual race discussion/inclusion.

[TigerClaw]

I'm loving the comics so far. This comic is doing what many other comics out there been doing for the past few years. World building.

I'm looking forward to issue 114 when it gets released next week. I love what I'm seeing in the previews so far and it looks like it's gonna be fun.

[Dejablue]

One reason I dislike XMen. Mutants as allegory for race when mutants are the very definition of "dangerous unknown other with god powers that crush puny humans"

The lesson kinda gets lost. Later I might waste a few minutes on a rant about mutant town. If Idw is flooded with fanfic, nobody noticed until now.

[skylord]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

One reason I dislike XMen. Mutants as allegory for race when mutants are the very definition of "dangerous unknown other with god powers that crush puny humans"

The lesson kinda gets lost. Later I might waste a few minutes on a rant about mutant town. If Idw is flooded with fanfic, nobody noticed until now.

I would argue that IDW's version has been fueled like fanfic from the very start. The series has been obsessed with including nods and such to older versions of TMNT practically needlessly. One that comes to mind is Angel becoming Nobody. Sure a neat nod but she could have had a unique name, no reason it should be a reference to something nobody in this universe would get.

In a lot of cases I am seeing recent more feminine writing being conflated with fanfic. Not going to deny aspects of fanfic aren't there. Just that different styles of "fanfic" writing have been implemented throughout the series' run. It's style has shifted to what is considered generally more feminine though.

The fans here just prefer a more masculine fanfic. Nothing wrong with that. Of course it's clear everyone is way more in love with the series when it feels least like a fanfic in either direction.

[CyberCubed]

To be honest nearly all licensed comics are, "published fanfiction" so to speak.

Most writers/artists in the industry now were also the kids/teens who grew up with these franchises when they were younger, and now that they're adults and got into the industry professionally...they're now able to do everything they wanted when they were kids. Hell even most DC and Marvel comics are "published fanfiction" at this point.

I mean if I were a TMNT writer I'd do my own spin on things based on stories I thought about since I was a kid/teen...so it's understandable. Everything is "published fanfiction" these days.

[Leo656]

I'm of the mind that it's less the "fanfic" angle and more the fact that the writing and art have become more and more "effeminate" in recent years that's become the issue.

TMNT has always had a large female audience but every single thing about it is rooted firmly in a MALE power fantasy. Ninjas. Robots. Martial Arts Action. Fugly Mutants. Things Little Boys like more traditionally often than Little Girls. Which isn't to say at all that girls can't or shouldn't like those things. Just that it's more generally Boys' Stuff and in turn it's always been presented with more of a "male voice".

The newer comics are definitely more "effeminate" from A-to-Z in everything from aesthetic to tone to story priority. And given who's presenting it, that makes sense to expect that, a degree. But it's miles away from the "traditional" presentation of the characters or brand, and in turn it makes sense that not everyone would like that.

I don't think "It feels like fanfic" really nails the argument. I think "It feels like some female Smith College Gender Studies student's fanfic" is really more specifically the issue people are having.

Call me crazy, but I *think* that the broader TMNT audience wants less girl-on-girl action and multiple pages of characters talking about feelings, and more fistfights and Ninja Stuff. Basically, a more "masculine" presentation.

Could be I'm wrong, but I kinda don't think so.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I'm loving the comics so far. This comic is doing what many other comics out there been doing for the past few years. World building.

I'm looking forward to issue 114 when it gets released next week. I love what I'm seeing in the previews so far and it looks like it's gonna be fun.

Are you senile or something? This comic has literally been going for a decade now. By now we have multiple criminal organisations, Evil corporations, para-military forces, ninja clans, government conspiracies, time travel, alternate realities, a pantheon of deities, various alien races and dozens of characters.

The series had plenty of world building as is, only difference is that now the series literally ignores what it built up in favor of setting up even more characters and forcing the setting to be a boring slum.

Having various sub-plots, seeing multiple characters interact, shift allegiences to move their agenda along, finding new assets, new hinders and constantly shifting the setting is what kept the series interesting.

If you think making the rolling ball screech to a halt in favor of trying to get a lumpy piece of lead rolling instead is somehow a good direction, I'm not sure a hundred hours of lectures on narrative structure could help you understand why people are frustrated with this direction.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Are you senile or something? This comic has literally been going for a decade now. By now we have multiple criminal organisations, Evil corporations, para-military forces, ninja clans, government conspiracies, time travel, alternate realities, a pantheon of deities, various alien races and dozens of characters.

The series had plenty of world building as is, only difference is that now the series literally ignores what it built up in favor of setting up even more characters and forcing the setting to be a boring slum.

Having various sub-plots, seeing multiple characters interact, shift allegiences to move their agenda along, finding new assets, new hinders and constantly shifting the setting is what kept the series interesting.

If you think making the rolling ball screech to a halt in favor of trying to get a lumpy piece of lead rolling instead is somehow a good direction, I'm not sure a hundred hours of lectures on narrative structure could help you understand why people are frustrated with this direction.

I guess the comic in its current iteration isn't for everyone. But I'm enjoying what I been reading so far