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Old 07-26-2014, 11:35 AM   #41
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I think he was not portrayed as much of anything at first. He was the least important Turtle for sure. Also in the later City at War issues. He usually got injured first. But he did seem pretty at peace, pretty go with the flow an friendly and outgoing. I think the BFF thing with Raph was abandoned fairly early on because Casey showed up, but Mikey and Raph are usually close in various mediums. I never saw him portrayed as spiritual or a deep thinker really--that doesn't mean he wasn't, just that he wasn't shown as it. He was never officially the youngest, but he acted that way in that he took a back seat during all the arguments and just went with the flow.
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I probably worded Mikey's spiritual kind of wrong. What I mean to say is, Leo is spiritual in the meditation thing, and that he really has no need for the urban life and modern technology. Mikey's spiritual I feel mostly comes in the form of nature. I see him being the one to take an animal in and comforting it. Having a respect and a compassion for all living things.
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:15 PM   #42
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As far as their physical skills go, it always actually made sense to me that there would be a difference in fighting ability between them. Leo's obsessive, Raph has a ton of aggression, Mikey's a goofball and Donatello prefers tinkering to training and pacifism to fighting. To me, from "Best" to "Worst" it would be Leo, Raph, Mike, and Don.

I know some people feel like that relegates Mike and Don to the "B-Team" but I always saw that they contributed in other ways. And not that they can't fight, but they clearly wouldn't have the same skills or strategic thinking of someone who trains and studies as obsessively as Leo, or someone with the raw power and aggression of Raphael.

That's how I always saw it in my head, anyway.
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Old 07-26-2014, 03:46 PM   #43
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Yeah, I have no problem with that.

Mike and Don both have other things they like to do besides martial arts. Leo and Raph, for the most part, don't.

I disagree with earlier statements that Leo is ever too good in Mirage though. Maybe by his old age in the few future stories we see, and he's the best fighter in the group, but it's not ridiculous or anything. He does as well as any of the Turtles do against the Foot Elite in "City at War" and only manages to not get killed by Shredder in "Return to New York" because of a freak accident.

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Mikey- The heart and soul of the group. Does he really have a weakness though? In the comics, I can't think of any. Just because we really don't see him kicking Shredder's ass, or building an intricate computer, doesn't mean he can't. I just found him one of those who just goes with the flow, and he is probably more at peace with himself, his surroundings and the world as a whole. He might even be a bit more on the spiritual side than Leo is. But his outgoing personality is I think his biggest strength. I mean, he's even Raph's best buddy in the comics, right? That's gotta say something about the guy.
This is pretty spot-on and why Mirage Mike is my favorite Turtle.

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I never saw him portrayed as spiritual or a deep thinker really--that doesn't mean he wasn't, just that he wasn't shown as it.
He has his moments, but mostly he's just a down-to-earth, creatively inclined guy who likes making friends. Which is its own sort of philosophy.

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Raph seems to be almost just like his brothers while at the same time, almost the exact opposite. Leo-he's shown as nearly as good as a fighter, but he lacks Leo's inner peace. He makes up for it by having the closest friendship with Casey and Mikey. Mikey, he's not as spiritual as Mikey, and again, doesn't share the same peace within, but he does share Mikey's outgoing personality, even though he won't admit it. And he has been shown in the comics as liking to tinker with engine, like Donnie does with most mechanic, technical stuff, and they even share to a slight degree that feeling of being alone although their tempers are about as contrasting as one could get.
I don't know that Mirage Raph is ever really "outgoing." He's protective, I would say, and really cares about helping people, but rarely opens up socially. He's the one pushing for them to do something about the Foot in "City at War" while newly realist Leo is just about ready to give up and call it a wash, for example. But when there's not something immediate he can take responsibility for, he bottles a lot up and is often off sulking by himself.

Speaking of which: Leo? That guy gets a hell of a character arc throughout the whole series when you piece it together. "Return to New York," "City at War," Volume 2, "Blind Faith," "Scars," "Loops," and "Swan Song" give him a lot of meat.

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Old 07-26-2014, 04:26 PM   #44
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As far as their physical skills go, it always actually made sense to me that there would be a difference in fighting ability between them. Leo's obsessive, Raph has a ton of aggression, Mikey's a goofball and Donatello prefers tinkering to training and pacifism to fighting. To me, from "Best" to "Worst" it would be Leo, Raph, Mike, and Don..
Yes, but this was really never said in Mirage.
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:10 AM   #45
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As far as their physical skills go, it always actually made sense to me that there would be a difference in fighting ability between them. Leo's obsessive, Raph has a ton of aggression, Mikey's a goofball and Donatello prefers tinkering to training and pacifism to fighting. To me, from "Best" to "Worst" it would be Leo, Raph, Mike, and Don.

I know some people feel like that relegates Mike and Don to the "B-Team" but I always saw that they contributed in other ways. And not that they can't fight, but they clearly wouldn't have the same skills or strategic thinking of someone who trains and studies as obsessively as Leo, or someone with the raw power and aggression of Raphael.

That's how I always saw it in my head, anyway.
In the comics it always seemed like the original idea was that the brothers were supposed to be 50/50 when it comes to win chances against each other in a fight. Each turtle has strengths and weaknesses, guided by Splinter's wisdom realize that they struggle because they try to conform to the idea of perfection instead of becoming their own person.

I always thought Leonardo's whole character development was to show the tyranny in the pursuit of perfection. His epiphany was to realize the joys that imperfection gives. He realizes he is not the best. He realizes that being the best is not what being a leader is about. Being a leader is about letting others grow just as much as him, to be unselfish.

Of course some peeps don't give a SHELL about story so they just god mode Leo and call it a day. Not realizing that they are supposed to be telling a visual story that needs a purpose to exist at all.

While I always thought Raphael's character development was to accept the monstrosity within. There is an evil inside all of us. His character is used to explore the inclination to kill. His epiphany is to remember his family and the forgotten love. Ya know the cheesiest kind of ending were love conquers all that is evil.

Sadly there is so much untapped potential in all the turtles. Each turtle offers a unique story that could have been represented better.

Instead of going on fantastical scientific adventures with Donatello we are just given the no-brained love story. I really think people underestimate Donatello too much. His character could have been so wonderful and a inspiration to view science differently. To view science as something amazing instead of a headache. But noo, instead they choose to belittle being smart. What kind of story is that!? A story that demonstrates how out of place and looked down upon you would be if you decided to pursue science stuff. Well conflict is still a good story too.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:32 PM   #46
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I read the last couple Mirage issues again the other day and was reminded of how late-Mirage Michelangelo was straight up participating in a genocidal space war for fun and revenge. Like he's grossed out for a second when they murder civilians by dropping chemical weapons on them, but is right back to "ok where's the enemy I wanna bust heads" moments later. He's hanging out with murdering space racists and enjoying it.

These issues also have yet another example of Donatello hiding something from the others, even though it was done from a place of kindness.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:40 PM   #47
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I read the last couple Mirage issues again the other day and was reminded of how late-Mirage Michelangelo was straight up participating in a genocidal space war for fun and revenge. Like he's grossed out for a second when they murder civilians by dropping chemical weapons on them, but is right back to "ok where's the enemy I wanna bust heads" moments later. He's hanging out with murdering space racists and enjoying it.
That arc isn't finished, though. We need to see where it goes.

Also, the Styracotrons did enslave him unjustly for weeks(?) months(?).
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Old 08-10-2014, 02:18 AM   #48
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I was watching the 80's toon, and it got me thinking. Back then, when it came to fighting styles and strengths, nothing was really mentioned. Now, when people talk about it, it's Leo is the most skilled, Raph is the most strongest, Mikey the most acrobatic and speediest and Donny is the smartest.

When did these traits start to take shape? Was it in Mirage, maybe on the back of some toys, or, was it just fans coming up with stuff that never really was canon? Only time I saw Raph's strength being eluded was in the 2007 movie, when you could actually see the muscle definition in him was more considerable, but what about Mikey?
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:03 PM   #49
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I was watching the 80's toon, and it got me thinking. Back then, when it came to fighting styles and strengths, nothing was really mentioned. Now, when people talk about it, it's Leo is the most skilled, Raph is the most strongest, Mikey the most acrobatic and speediest and Donny is the smartest.

When did these traits start to take shape? Was it in Mirage, maybe on the back of some toys, or, was it just fans coming up with stuff that never really was canon? Only time I saw Raph's strength being eluded was in the 2007 movie, when you could actually see the muscle definition in him was more considerable, but what about Mikey?
I didn't like the 80's cartoon compared to the rest of the TMNT series: It butchered Raph and Mikey completely.

Reading the Mirage comics, I always did assume Leo was the most skilled and Raph was the strongest. It was heavily implied that Donnie was the smart one, but I don't remember him making nearly as many gadgets as he did in the cartoons. I don't think it's ever been said that Mikey is the fastest.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:00 PM   #50
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The loner angle that is often played up with Raph in the films & cartoons is moreso Donnie's role in the comics. He's quite a dark guy, actually. He's killed animals in the name of science, beat up a drunk Casey Jones, kept Baxter Stockman in a dungeon for like 2 years without his brothers knowledge, cloned Splinter, built a robot version of April after she died, when he was a cyborg and struggling to deal with it he threatened to kill his brothers before pulling the trigger to his own head (though the suit had an override that prevented self-harm). Like I said, dark.
Jesus, Donnie! Man, I want to go back and read those comics now. I am a glutton for darkness.
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:02 PM   #51
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I didn't like the 80's cartoon compared to the rest of the TMNT series: It butchered Raph and Mikey completely.

Reading the Mirage comics, I always did assume Leo was the most skilled and Raph was the strongest. It was heavily implied that Donnie was the smart one, but I don't remember him making nearly as many gadgets as he did in the cartoons. I don't think it's ever been said that Mikey is the fastest.
Was Raph's strength ever actually outlined in the comics? I mean, even in the cartoons, it's not too much shown, like I said, the only time I seen it truly implied was in the 2007 toon. Now, I know he's supposed to be the toughest, taking the most hits and shrugging them off he best out of the four. As for Mikey, I think his speed thing started in one of them roll playing games and grew from there. If his strength is not his speed, then it would definitely be his natural athletic talents. He's been nearly depicted as skilled as Leo and Raph, but with half the training and focus on it.
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:36 PM   #52
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Yeah, I think it's mentioned in more than one source that Mikey has the most natural ability, and would easily be stronger than any of his brothers if he had the focus and the drive to do so.
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