Government Shutdown

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Again, none of those things can have ANY data on the illegal immigrants that came here across the border illegally successfully. There is NO paper trail for these people.

How do you get numbers on something where there is no way to track it? You don't. Comparing said nonexistent numbers against ones that do exist (the visa applicants that don't leave) as proof positive to prove a point is pretty stupid. Certainly meaningless.

Andrew....... They can track people who are here illegally to a certain degree. They can track people who come here legally on visas who refuse to leave and become illegal immigrants. The another way they can track data is by number of apprehensions. They also can get numbers by the national census. They can compare the national census vs number of documented citizens and legal immigrants that are here. They have statistical data. Look in my earlier post or just go to the DHS homepage and you can find statistics on illegal immigration..... JUST PLEASE DO NOT BE DISMISSIVE WITHOUT PROVIDING PROOF OR SOME SORT OF EVIDENCE BACKING YOUR CLAIMS BEFORE HAPHAZARDLY DISMISSING THE STATISTICAL DATA I PROVIDED.....

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Andrew....... They can track people who are here illegally to a certain degree. They can track people who come here legally on visas who refuse to leave and become illegal immigrants. The another way they can track data is by number of apprehensions. They also can get numbers by the national census. They can compare the national census vs number of documented citizens and legal immigrants that are here. They have statistical data. Look in my earlier post or just go to the DHS homepage and you can find statistics on illegal immigration..... JUST PLEASE DO NOT BE DISMISSIVE WITHOUT PROVIDING PROOF OR SOME SORT OF EVIDENCE BACKING YOUR CLAIMS BEFORE HAPHAZARDLY DISMISSING THE STATISTICAL DATA I PROVIDED.....

This is a country that doesn’t have a proper national computer system to tracking who owns all the firearms, you think it’s going to be the same for people?

To be fair, you’d think if they knew who had entered the country, and who had subsequently left, then the remainder must have stayed...!

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

This is a country that doesn’t have a proper national computer system to tracking who owns all the firearms, you think it’s going to be the same for people?

To be fair, you’d think if they knew who had entered the country, and who had subsequently left, then the remainder must have stayed...!

I know it does track people who enters this country. The reason the country cannot track guns appropriately is because of how lax gun sale laws are. There is no way to track gun sales, bc people do not have to report the sales. I can go sell a gun right now and not have to report it to anyone. Guns have serial numbers and in theory could be track like cars IF and only if people were forced to report the sales of firearms. Cars are easily tracked bc of vin numbers and the fact the people have to report the sales of cars to track them.

Point being tracking gun is not due to a shortfall of software development. but bc of lax gun sale laws.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

I know it does track people who enters this country. The reason the country cannot track guns appropriately is because of how lax gun sale laws are. There is no way to track gun sales, bc people do not have to report the sales. I can go sell a gun right now and not have to report it to anyone. Guns have serial numbers and in theory could be track like cars IF and only if people were forced to report the sales of firearms. Cars are easily tracked bc of vin numbers and the fact the people have to report the sales of cars to track them.

Point being tracking gun is not due to a shortfall of software development. but bc of lax gun sale laws.

Sounds like you support socialism. Dangerous. This is America. There is no need at all to track gun sales or gun owners. That's something out of Nazi Germany. Going to make the big bad government come door to door, with guns, to find out who has what for guns? Talk about a bloodbath.

[Voltron]

How is any of what he said socialist? Do you even know what that word means? And the Nazis hated socialists. You literally can't be both.

YOU sound like one of those super-geniuses who think that Obama was a Muslim-Atheist, without knowing what either of those words mean.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Voltron

How is any of what he said socialist? Do you even know what that word means? And the Nazis hated socialists. You literally can't be both.

YOU sound like one of those super-geniuses who think that Obama was a Muslim-Atheist, without knowing what either of those words mean.

Don't waste your time with mrmaczaps dude is two scoops right wing stupid.Trust me I am saving you a long back and forth

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Don't waste your time with mrmaczaps dude is two scoops right wing stupid.Trust me I am saving you a long back and forth

Thanks for the tip. I'll save my breath.

Also, I edited the title to reflect the new shutdown, rather than the last one.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Sounds like you support socialism. Dangerous. This is America. There is no need at all to track gun sales or gun owners. That's something out of Nazi Germany. Going to make the big bad government come door to door, with guns, to find out who has what for guns? Talk about a bloodbath.

Well... Everyone in the U.S. already has a social security card, cars have titles and are forced to report when selling a car. Guns already have serial numbers and it would be nice to hold people accountable who commit gun violence you know..... and no none of what I said was semblance of socialism.....

Just so we are clear here is what socialism is by definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Also, I edited the title to reflect the new shutdown, rather than the last one.

It is as much a Trump shutdown as it is a Democrat shutdown. Until now I've disagreed with you but you've been intelligent as you have cordial despite your obvious bias and you're not, like, banning people who don't agree with you as you easily could... but this is way out of line. I obviously did not make a thread called "Trump Shutdown," nor does that represent the reality of the situation beyond the liberal narrative.

You are literally changing the language to better align the world (or this forum, in this case) to your beliefs, ala the liberal cause. Par for the course. Disappointing.

[Candy Kappa]

It is a Trump shutdown.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

It is a Trump shutdown.

There is a budget that is not agreed upon. Trump wants a meager (respective of the actual, yearly 100+ billion cost of dealing with illegal immigration) 5.7 billion, yes. The Democrats don't agree. The Democrats could say tomorrow, or an hour from now, "Fine, here's your 5.7 billion" and presto, the (full) government is back up and running. They could even be like, "OK, we will authorize the 5.7 billion... but we want ______." They're not even doing that. The power is equally in both parties' hands.

[Candy Kappa]

so now $5,700,000,000 is "meager" too

what happened to $5,000,000,000? Donald realized he needed more?

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It is as much a Trump shutdown as it is a Democrat shutdown. Until now I've disagreed with you but you've been intelligent as you have cordial despite your obvious bias and you're not, like, banning people who don't agree with you as you easily could... but this is way out of line. I obviously did not make a thread called "Trump Shutdown," nor does that represent the reality of the situation beyond the liberal narrative.

You are literally changing the language to better align the world (or this forum, in this case) to your beliefs, ala the liberal cause. Par for the course. Disappointing.

*AHEM*




It is disappointing that facts are of little use against the conservative propaganda machine.

The fact of the matter is that the United States was, is, and may very well remain under cyber attack by hostile, foreign powers. These agents have been shown to push conservative agendas in the pursuit of disrupting the American political process.

Every day, unknown numbers of saboteurs are acting against America's best interest by relentlessly dismantling our discourse. Many experts have said that these plots skewed the election to a different and, thus, unnatural result.

Obviously, this could very well be called a crisis. And while I'm not calling a state of emergency on the Drome, I have decided to use my giant a-brain and high IQ to help stop the dissemination of fake news in this thread. I would hate to lock the door on the WALL of this thread, you know?

People demand a tough, no-nonsense mod who tells it like it is. And that's what I did here. And I used the best words. Really.

If you still feel upset by this, I will happily discuss it with you after we come to a consensus on what irony and compromise mean. However, I must caution that I'm not going to go along with propaganda talking points.

As it stands, since Mr. Trump so vocally accepted blame for the entire shutdown, I see little reason as to why his name shouldn't be attached to it.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

so now $5,700,000,000 is "meager" too

what happened to $5,000,000,000? Donald realized he needed more?

To the United States government? Yea, that's meager. Have you seen what they budget for the military? And the cost of paying for the permanent underclass that's going to be occupying the US living off of taxes for the rest of their lives? The 5 billion is chump change compared to what it's going to cost to house, feed, and educate these people. They're not interested in work. They're interested in having the government take care of them.

This isn't the 70's or 80's when a latino would come to the country, learn a trade, and add to society. A larger than not chunk of these people come to this country and simply live off of welfare.

Oh, and forget Trump. If you don't like him that's fine. Why not ask yourself why the majority of the people who claim to be against the wall/barrier/whatever had no problem with it while Obama was president? Both Pelosi and Schumer voted for a barrier at the border less than a decade ago.

Unfortunately, this is a measuring contest. Simple as that.

Do people still really believe the nonsense narrative that was pushed behind the steel dossier? There are liberals and progressives who admit that **** was fraudulent. Oh, and Russia didn't hack ****. They spent about 5,000 dollars on ads on social media. Yea, that's some hardcore election meddling. People really will believe whatever nonsense justifies their idiotic nonsense ideology.

Proof that the Russian meddling was barely anything. Listen. Absorb. That's not some right wing guy. That's the Google CEO talking about how much Russia 'interfered' with the election. FFS. Let that **** go. It didn't happen. Trump is not this uniquely bad monster. They're all ****ing horrible. They just have PR firms that make their horrible **** palatable.

https://youtu.be/emxUdrVVR8s

[Candy Kappa]

Just cause the US military budget is Eric Sacks level of stupid, doesn't diminish that 5 billion is a **** ton of money.

Besides, $5.7B is still $15B short of what the wall at minimum will cost

[Voltron]

Also, and I cannot stress this enough:

Trump said we wouldn't have to pay for the wall.

So, literally anything over $0.00 is an outrageous price tag. We were promised a free wall.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Just cause the US military budget is Eric Sacks level of stupid, doesn't diminish that 5 billion is a **** ton of money.

Besides, $5.7B is still $15B short of what the wall at minimum will cost

To the richest government in the world for the past 100 years? No, not really.

Originally Posted by Voltron

Also, and I cannot stress this enough:

Trump said we wouldn't have to pay for the wall.

So, literally anything over $0.00 is an outrageous price tag. We were promised a free wall.

Because politicians stick to all of their promises?

"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor."
"No new taxes"
"Kuwaiti incubator babies"
"There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq"

Trump is not unique in his nonsense promises. Yes, he is far more brash and idiotic in his presentation, but he is no way worse than anyone who preceded him. Everything Trump gets blamed for his predecessor did. Where was the condemnation then? Oh, I know, you liked Obummer, so it wasn't bad when he was doing just about everything Trump is doing now.

I'd give it to you that Trump was this uniquely bad presence if Obama didn't tear gas illegals at the border. If Obama didn't want the border wall when he was a senator. If Obama said that the AHCA was going to lower medical costs. If Obama didn't illegally start an armed conflict in Syria. I don't have the 'liberal smarts' to view him as this great beacon of "Hope" and "Change". He was horrible. He just dressed it up in pretty words and phrases.

I could even talk about the fact that Obama tried to have reporters arrested. I won't, though, as we need to focus on the fact that.. Orange man bad.

[Voltron]

Oh, wow. You sure showed me.

Hey, everyone! Don't worry, we figured it out! We can't complain about anything anymore because someone else already did it.

Flawless logic. That's what you've got. I have no idea what I was thinking, coming in against mental giants like this. I mean, had I known Bart was able to velcro his own shoes without supervision. . .

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Oh, wow. You sure showed me.

Hey, everyone! Don't worry, we figured it out! We can't complain about anything anymore because someone else already did it.

Flawless logic. That's what you've got. I have no idea what I was thinking, coming in against mental giants like this. I mean, had I known Bart was able to velcro his own shoes without supervision. . .

... So you're saying you can in no way refute my statements so you result to ad hom attacks. Nice.

Wow and, even worse, you're a mod.

For the record: I'm not saying you shouldn't complain against Trump. I do all the time. His ideas about the environment are horrible. Him putting Rick Perry in charge of... well, pretty much anything is ****ing idiotic. Yes, there are plenty of things we could discuss about how Trump is a disaster. He is in a lot of ways.

Things we shouldn't focus on include: Russian meddling. That's fake. Him being this uniquely bad 'presence' that is somehow making the country worse off. How?

Again, he's done nothing out of the ordinary. He's a schmuck, for sure. They all are. The unique outrage and idiocy being presented by those that dislike him is silly for a variety of reasons.

Oh, and I will continue to treat everyone in this thread with civility as that is how it's outlined in the rules of this board. It's a shame that you, as a mod, are unable to do the same. I won't hold it against, though.

Oh, and my ideas might not be flawless, but I don't need to result to insults when I can't refute someone.

One other thing. I'm not trying to 'own' or 'show' anyone anything. I'm trying to look at this entire situation (Trump) with a critical eye. Do I like him? Not really. Is he an idiot? God yes. Is he any worse than any of the other corporate bootlicking politicians who gain something by dividing the country? No; He's fits right in.

[Voltron]

I did refute your statement.

Also, I was complimenting you. I wish you wouldn't misconstrue my words. Perhaps you should stop resorting to such foul language?

Please stop wasting bandwidth.