Super Shredder: What Is He?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I like this idea! Mind if I borrow it?

Of course. I would be honored.

It reminds me of venom which actually is after the mutagen effecting Shredder by over a year though Ivan Drago was six years before that. Also, we could note that venom itself is a mutagenic steroid mutating the body though permanence varies upon iteration. It alters physique opposed to body chemistry.

[neatoman]

I'm a little more confused regarding MiM Super Shredder. As normal Shredder he appears to be human then poof, armor out of nowhere. Was he an android all along?

[Hans Flying Turtlenecker]

Sorry if I'm pushing up this thread a bit from the dead, but I just felt I had to point out one thing.
It seems that one detail has been a bit ignored in this discussion about Super Shredder, and that's the fact about his mental instability.
Prof. Perry points out when they're making the retro-mutagen that he had contaminated the last vial of mutagen to make Tokka and Rahzar less intelligent and therefor less dangerous. So it only makes sense that the small vial Shredder has is from that same batch and therefor also contaminated. That's why he becomes more agressive and stupid.

As for the clothes changing and growing with him.. yeah that's just movie magic haha.

[Leo656]

What is he?

WHAT IS HE?

He's a goddamn STALLION, that's what he is.

[DarkFell]

Super Shredder was a behemoth that got that way by ingesting ooze from a spare canister. I think I read that Kevin Nash loved playing the part.

Never abuse the ooze.

[Leo656]

He's like a big, cuddly, sarcastic Praying Mantis.



Haha, I'm not very big.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Shred87

What is he? a missed opportunity....

Amen! Amen! I mean it's so obvious that the writer(s) fell into a situation where it's like "OMG! We need an ending. But we already have that lame white rapper in the dance club. *LIGHTBULB* The film is called Secret of the Ooze. Why not use the ooze to make Shredder a giant monster. It'll be just like a boss battle in an arcade game. Kids will LOVE it!"

And it sucked!

It would have honestly been fine IF there was some way to explain how Shredder's costume also mutated with him.

But, the idea that a costume... clothing... an outfit can morph when you hulk out? Somewhere Bruce Banner is in a corner crying and wondering why his pants always get torn and turn purple when they could just Hulk Out with him. Maybe Banner should just drink the ooze then, eh?

[Leo656]

Yeah. I'm not entirely against the idea of a "Super-Shredder" but the logistics and execution were clearly not thought out at all.

It's kinda why I hate the second movie. I don't HATE it, but I kinda do, and definitely compared to the first movie. The first movie, everything was "tight", there weren't really any holes or inconsistencies or "WTF-ery". Like, they treated it like a "real" movie.

Second movie: "Eh, it's for kids, kids are stupid, lets just Go Nuts." Which has sadly become the predominant way the pen-holders have treated the brand to this very day.

First movie, you have a movie where they knew mostly kids would be interested but were like, "If we can give their parents a Real Movie, too, that's awesome," and they did that. But the sequel ONLY holds appeal for young children, OR people who were young children when they first saw it, but to absolutely anyone else it's a disaster.

It sounds "mean" to say and the movie itself is a fun romp - and light years ahead of the two PD failures, gigantic flaws and all - but it's kind of a perfect little capsule of Every Single Goddamn Thing Wrong With The TMNT Franchise In 88 Minutes. Super-Shredder and his armor being a prominent example but not even the most egregious.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah. I'm not entirely against the idea of a "Super-Shredder" but the logistics and execution were clearly not thought out at all.

It's kinda why I hate the second movie. I don't HATE it, but I kinda do, and definitely compared to the first movie. The first movie, everything was "tight", there weren't really any holes or inconsistencies or "WTF-ery". Like, they treated it like a "real" movie.

Second movie: "Eh, it's for kids, kids are stupid, lets just Go Nuts." Which has sadly become the predominant way the pen-holders have treated the brand to this very day.

First movie, you have a movie where they knew mostly kids would be interested but were like, "If we can give their parents a Real Movie, too, that's awesome," and they did that. But the sequel ONLY holds appeal for young children, OR people who were young children when they first saw it, but to absolutely anyone else it's a disaster.

It sounds "mean" to say and the movie itself is a fun romp - and light years ahead of the two PD failures, gigantic flaws and all - but it's kind of a perfect little capsule of Every Single Goddamn Thing Wrong With The TMNT Franchise In 88 Minutes. Super-Shredder and his armor being a prominent example but not even the most egregious.

Eloquently stated as usual, bro! TMNT II watches like a direct sequel (clearly lighter in tone but still like the first in many ways) until about the time Tokka and Rahzar are even a twinkle in the film's eye. By the time we get the latex snapping turtle and wolf-man the film is like the guy in the crowded elevator who farted... "admit it dude... YOU DID IT! You made it for kids."

I still regret the "combat cold cuts" thing and the yo-yo. It's so blatantly walking on eggshells around the parents... no weapons!

[Coola Yagami]

IDK, as a kid I liked the sequel more cause it felt quicker, funnier and I guess had more stuff going on.

Like as an adult I appreciate the serious tone of the first movie more and how the turtles needed time to heal, regroup and whatnot after they exiled themselves from New York. Like even as a kid I knew Raph wasn't gonna die so I was wondering why they didn't cut to the part where he recovers already and they just go back. As an adult I get the themes where the Turtles feel defeated, and with Raph on the verge of dying and them all thinking Splinter is dead anyway, they had no real reason to ever return to New York.

But oh man, as a kid though, I felt the movie came to a screeching halt when they escaped New York and was bored except for when Raph finally wakes up, the Splinter meditation scene and them finally saying 'it's time to go back'.

I guess as a kid I didn't notice how it woudn't make sense for Shredder's outfit to mutate with him, I just kinda figured the movie went on long enough and they needed a quick battle scene to properly end it. Like, Super Shredder seemed more like an idea rather than something that needed a drawn-out fight scene. Ironically the games went wild with the Super Shredder idea and it was pretty awesome.

IMO TMNT 2012 went too overboard with the design and ****ed it up.

[Leo656]

I definitely understand why TMNT II had much more direct kid appeal, which is why I always qualify it as such. It's not an objectively "good" movie, or maybe that's too harsh, I can say that it's Good but not even close to Great... BUT, if you're 8, then yes, it's absolutely great, to you, in that moment. But in a vacuum, no, it's not, it's a very slapdash piece of work that was rushed out the door to ride the wave before it crashed, and the strings and Scotch tape show. BUT, as a confection aimed at little kids it's perfectly harmless and even excels, at times, in what it tries to do.

I was technically never "a child" so I always had very little patience for such things. I never liked entertainment that was clearly talking down at me, in fact I was a little resentful of it. So I didn't care for the jokes, I was more pissed off that Leo wasn't gonna use his swords and all'a that stuff. Super-Shredder was just one more topper on the "Man, this is a dumb-ass movie" cake. It never has, or never will, bother me half as much as Vanilla Ice or the Turtles saving the day with a power chord like something out of a Bill and Ted movie or something.

I'm not gonna say I didn't watch it a lot as a kid, but even before I was done watching it the first time I was like "Man... I think I'd rather watch the first one again for the 80th time" so that's generally what I did, and still do.

[DonatelloDomeHead31]

I think this was brought up in an old thread, but to add to what you're saying Leo. In TMNT 2, the turtles don't use their weapons as much--I think to tone down the violence. I seem to recall at certain points in the movie they lose their weapons (example--when Mikey gets thrown by Rahzar into the turtles, Raph's Sai falls out of its holster).

I enjoyed some of it, but in my opinion, I wish it had improved a little bit more.

Oh one more thing: Super Shredder was quick in his scene...you would maybe wish he could have been used longer in the film. He just destroys the dock and then...gone.

[Leo656]

And to add to that, I don't even think he was on set for 12 hours in total.

It's no wonder his default face is "Permanent Smirk".

Sadly, as much of a punk as Super Shredder went out - doing the J-O-B to a bunch of foam logs - it's still not the only or even the last time he would show up, do nothing, then lose...



To be fair, one of those incidents was laying down for Hulk Hogan so I guess it's actually not that bad by comparison.

[Hans Flying Turtlenecker]

Despite all its flaws I really like the Super Shredder scene.
The music is bombastic and the idea of Shredder becoming so huge and powerful was kinda scary when you were a kid. Plus is design is just cool, even though it's silly.
I just wish that it lasted longer. It's definitely a wasted opportunity and it should've been fleshed out more.
Instead of just having Shredder trashing the whole bridge in rage it would've been much better if the Turtles had actually been leading him to do it. Like standing themselves infront of the wooden beams and trick Shredder into breaking them.

[Leo656]

I agree with all of that.

It's all build and then a wet fart of an ending. Why? Did they blow literally ALL their money on the Tokkah and Rahzar fight scenes? Probably. But it's like "WAIT a minute... if you're gonna whip out the Super-Shredder card, why only put it in the movie for 90 seconds and not even have a proper fight?" If you're going to go to such great lengths to shoehorn in such an idea at all... why the anticlimax? They could have booked literally ANY kind of thing at all, and it would have at least been more satisfying then "RRRRAAAAAH! RRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHH! Ah, f*ck it, now I'm dead."

Does any action movie have a worse or more underwhelming conflict for an ending? The whole entire movie, it's like a giant build to something and then it all ends with a shrug. It's almost like after the Vanilla Ice scene, they didn't even really know how they wanted the movie to end but they needed ten more minutes to fill. And it's not even a long movie, at all, so that's very telling how quickly they ran out of ideas and had to pad out the running time with a "grand finale" that was the cinematic equivalent of a guy tripping over his own feet, falling down a flight of stairs and breaking his own neck. WHY do you do this?

Wait a second... in reading that, now that I've written it, I realize that's exactly how Nash died in "The Punisher". Wow, this guy doesn't get booked very well inso far as his death scenes, does he?

Anyways, like, from the most basic, elemental writing and storytelling perspective, the last ten minutes or so of TMNT II absolutely SCREAM, "We gotta fill out the last ten minutes. Let's just vamp."

Like, y'know what they could have done in that fight that would have made it better than nothing? ANY thing. I could maybe forgive huge chunks of the rest of the movie if the ending wasn't such a colossal misfire. And I don't even mean Super-Shredder, I mean the fact that it was pointless to even do that, given the execution they went with for it. If it had meant anything, it might've been cool.

It could have stayed nonsense but it at least would have been cooler, better nonsense.

[MikeandRaph87]

As much as I love Secret of The Ooze I have come to find two issues with it. First was the lack of using their weapons. This is the overly protective parent outcry's fault not the production itself. The other is Super Shredder. As a kid it was a cool visual, but as I grew older than the preschooler I was when it came out I was disappointed at Super Shredder NOT DOING ANYTHING! ALL HE DID WAS ATTEMPT SUICIDE/MURDER BY DROPPING A PIER ON THEM! However, the lack of intelligence due to something Professor Perry did to contaminate it does make sense. This would account for him not being able to think through the action. It's just the fall from a rooftop into a garbage truck does not kill one, but shards of a wooden pier kills the same person who has enhanced strength and protective armor.

Also, it makes sense that a human may not mutate into an animal in the iteration, but become some roid monster. No other human came into contact with the mutagen in this version so The Shredder is the only one we have as an example.

[Leo656]

Him being an idiot is the one thing that makes in-story sense.

It's still exactly like if Doomsday had simply shown up, thrown a fit, and then punched his own head off in an infantile rage. Maybe it makes sense, but who wants to watch that happen?

They could've taken two minutes to write that movie an ending. I probably like and am more forgiving of "Super-Shredder" than most people, even as a concept... but it's just so, SO pointless.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Leo656

He's like a big, cuddly, sarcastic Praying Mantis.

https://scontent.fewr1-5.fna.fbcdn.n...ac&oe=5F13DC6E

Haha, I'm not very big.

When was that picture taken? If it was this year then it sure is impressive for a 60 year old man to still be that ripped. My dad is nearly 60 himself and he has pretty big arms for his age and he's still nowhere this impressive.

[Coola Yagami]

Met him and Hall a few years back. They're both still pretty big dudes you dun wanna mess with despite the grey.

[Leo656]

Nah, that was around 2013-2014 if I recall.

He's still pretty damn jacked though. I seen a picture of a him a few months ago either just before or just after shoulder surgery and he's still in great shape, even though his one shoulder's been bone-on-bone for at least the last 15 years.

So of course, shoulders are his favorite thing to work. I think he likes the pain or something. One time he was on Steve Austin's podcast, making a joke about how he can still squat heavy even though he's got gimp knees and scrawny chicken legs. He's like "So I was puttin' up like 400 on the squat rack just last week..." and Austin's like "An' damn, son, I bet your shoulders grew!" It's like this running inside gag about Nash and his obsession with shoulder workouts.

He's really, really a great guy. And that makes me happy because most guys you meet at his level really aren't always. But yeah, he's great, and he keeps in great shape. "Big Lazy" is the running gag and he even leans way, way into that on purpose, but it's more like he just... takes life at a casual pace. You don't get where he's been without being driven to a certain degree.

Hall is also great when he's straight. He's grabbed my wife's ass more times than I care to remember but I doubt he even remembers it. And I damn sure wasn't gonna call him on it. First time he did that, literally an hour later he got arrested for starting a bar fight at a place that's 5 minutes from the house I grew up in. Small world!

Love 'em both, but Nash is the adult in their relationship.