DC Relaunching AGAIN

[MikeandRaph87]

That answers my question on why all these old reprints are taking up shelf space. Its a good thing that shows the strength of the back issue log. People could get digital copies or read them for free or like me get a run of back issues on the secondary market yet they prefer cheap hard copies of classic issues.

I do love the Snickers ad, the Batman chasing Catwoman on a cat themed jewel heist, a ridiculous trap set by The Riddler, Clayface (Matt Hagen) holding discotech going youth's hostage for ransom and stopped by The Dynamite Duo. If only it was full length and did not have to revolve around Snickers. Its the best part of some of the comics.

I said it before and I said it again, Didio needs to retire. This diversity enforcement will blow up in his face. Dick and Wally are the true heirs. Create new heroes, its an easy answer that creators are not willing to invest in.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I get my information form CBR and a pair of message boards. I don't read it myself (aside form #50-54). Is it some kind of what if? However, I argree with the shrug. Its just this...
https://www.cbr.com/batman-alfred-st...ive-explained/

But they're still releasing this weird "RIP Alfred" story? It makes zero sense.

[ZariusTwo]

CBR don't know s*it. Never have.

https://www.newsarama.com/47928-batman-83.html

[ZariusTwo]

DC have promoted lead Supergirl and Metal Men editor Jessica Chen to a full time editor of the Bat-Range

https://www.newsarama.com/48097-dc-p...to-editor.html

Preview for Green Lantern: Blackstars#2

https://www.cbr.com/green-lantern-bl...-wonder-woman/

ROFL, in this altered timeline, Jon wants to run away and join the Blackstars, Belezebeth comments on how Batman's villains went from committing imaginative crimes to wanting to attack Bruce personally all the time, Wonder Woman is about to chop off Tyrant Bull's 'package', and Superman tells Hal the heroes are more concerned with their 21st century mental health issues rather than help people. He also makes reference to a "depressoverse" that scientists have discovered

Morrison is a global treasure. Preserve him for all time.

A new word baloon podcast with Matt Fraction is up.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...ode%2F20421049

He very casually alludes to a post-Doomsday Clock spoiler

Spoiler:

Johnathan and Martha Kent are restored to continuity

[ZariusTwo]

Well, today was it. Superman drops the mic on his secret identity and the need for one.

[MikeandRaph87]

https://www.newsarama.com/48253-dc-c...citations.html
March 2020 solicits are out. It looks like Dc is following up with Two Face's previous arc and Harvey Dent is trying to free himself of Two Face. I wonder how long it will last this time, less than the three plus years it did last time.

Also, it suggest that Joker,Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman are Batman's core rogues. I also considered Two Face, Mr. Freeze, and Poison Ivy core as well. Is there a true core or just opinions? Perhaps one or more of the other three or just the four.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Preview for Green Lantern: Blackstars#2

https://www.cbr.com/green-lantern-bl...-wonder-woman/

ROFL, in this altered timeline, Jon wants to run away and join the Blackstars, Belezebeth comments on how Batman's villains went from committing imaginative crimes to wanting to attack Bruce personally all the time, Wonder Woman is about to chop off Tyrant Bull's 'package', and Superman tells Hal the heroes are more concerned with their 21st century mental health issues rather than help people. He also makes reference to a "depressoverse" that scientists have discovered

Morrison is a global treasure. Preserve him for all time.

A new word baloon podcast with Matt Fraction is up.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...ode%2F20421049

He very casually alludes to a post-Doomsday Clock spoiler

Spoiler:

Johnathan and Martha Kent are restored to continuity

Starbreaker's daughter pulled the same as Kylo, playing faithful acolyte and did not see his own demise in his arrogance of wishing away The Green Lantern Corps.

So Jonathan and Martha are alive? When does the final Doomsday Clock come out? Also,its so strange how Jon is 18 when he was not even born a few years ago and how comics like to keep the timeline so condensed.

[MikeandRaph87]

CKD, I know you share a distaste for War of Jokes and Riddles so I thought I would plant this here for you. Go to 3:16 to 5:01. Joker loses his humor, but its done so much better and condensed into one issue.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

When does the final Doomsday Clock come out?

Tomorrow.

Also,its so strange how Jon is 18 when he was not even born a few years ago and how comics like to keep the timeline so condensed.

Jon was aged up through spending years in an alternate universe run by evil versions of his parents, while time progressed normally for his real parents in their universe.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Tomorrow.



Jon was aged up through spending years in an alternate universe run by evil versions of his parents, while time progressed normally for his real parents in their universe.

Why can't he just be a toddler? Or at the very least Damien's age of about nine. Being 18 kind of nullifies the Superboy clone's place.

I thought aging Wally's children was weird with him being 25ish at oldest. This aging up twist while not making a strange lack of age difference just might be even stranger. Evil parents in an alternate dimension with a different time passage? Oh, comics!

[ZariusTwo]

A lot to unpack from Wednesday

Flash Forward: Wally reunites with his kids finally

Batman: Bruce and Selina are in a committed relationship again, but still don't marry (Selina's excuse is they don't need to be, they know in their hearts they are "forever")

Doomsday Clock: Superman convinces Manhattan to consider hope, Manhattan reboots the DC metaverse, Clark's parents are ressurected and his history as Superboy is restored. Several key future events in the DC universe are mentioned such as an old gods and Time Master crisis that leads to the 5G event. Also the New 52 has it's own Earth now (though in the Crisis Giant Walmart book, it was destroyed)

[Leo656]

I'm missing the last few issues of Doomsday Clock, still, so I can't fully comment but I've been keeping up with the general series of events, including the final issue, and I gotta say... I ultimately dig it. It's definitely going to be controversial, not everyone will find it satisfying and still more will forever argue whether the series needs to exist at all, but I like what they came up with.

"Watchmen" was ultimately about cynical nihilism and "Doomsday Clock" is ultimately about hope and redemption - two themes which previously couldn't even be thought of as applicable to the Watchmen universe. But in the end they complement and "book-end" each other perfectly in their stylistically similar but thematically-opposite approach.

As a huge Superman fan, I can't help but enjoy the idea that Superman's example is so powerful that it can impact worlds where he doesn't even exist as an idea. It's consistent with many, many stories that have been told and re-told with the character for decades, the idea that the very concept of "Superman" and his heroic ideal is so powerful that he becomes an inevitability. "If for some reason Superman did not exist, somehow, eventually, he would." It's an idea Morrison and others have played with to great effect, and Manhattan's sacrifice at the end of Doomsday Clock definitely implies something to that effect. Even a "hopeless" world like that of "Watchmen" would ultimately, inevitably, have their "Superman". Not an unstoppable, all-powerful Ubermensch like Manhattan himself, but rather a pure and incorruptible force of good, a symbol of Hope and an example to aspire towards. The fact that Manhattan's final "gift" to his own world was directly inspired by Superman himself, and how their brief interaction was enough to make Manhattan rethink and ultimately reject everything he'd ever believed in... that's powerful, powerful stuff. The hook with Dr. Manhattan was always that he was "beyond" such simple concepts as "Good" and "Evil", and yet, when he actually comes face-to-face with Superman, he realizes he was wrong; Absolute Good does exist. He (and the reader) have been expecting a violent confrontation between the two for twelve issues, and in the end, when those expectations are subverted, he realizes that he was wrong to preemptively assume the worst would always happen simply because it always had. And in seeing that he was wrong, he decides to use his powers to do something Good for, really, the Very First Time Ever, to really change his world for the better, something he'd previously insisted was pointless or couldn't be done at all.

It's like, he observed Superman through every different alternate timeline and scenario, screwed with his life and that of everyone else in the DCU, pretty much because "Why not?", and then, upon actually coming face-to-face with him, finally realizes the meaning of the simple truth that Superman has said time and time again: "There IS a Right and Wrong in the universe... and the distinction is not difficult to make."

To me, this is pretty neat. I can see someone who's a Watchmen purist or less of a Superman fan than I am feeling like the ending is "corny" or a cop-out, but I, a noted an outspoken cynic, think that's simply a very jaded and cynical opinion. I mean, they said from day one that it was ultimately a Superman story - which confused a lot of people since he wasn't in the series as much as they'd expected, but in the end it all makes sense. AND we get to more or less have the "real" DCU back, and the New 52 gets its own Earth in the Multiverse for the three people who care about it.

If someone hates the idea of Watchmen having a sequel at all, and especially hates the idea of mixing the DCU "proper" into it, they probably don't have any reason to read the series. But I don't think its existence hurts Watchmen one bit; it's still there as a standalone story, and anyone who wants to ignore this "sequel" can do so. But I think it's a satisfying sequel, companion piece and opposing point of view that actually enriches Watchmen rather than cheapens it. Watchmen is grounded, Doomsday Clock is more fantastical. Watchman eschews and satirizes the DCU, Doomsday Clock embraces and glorifies it. Watchmen is about mankind not even being worth saving, Doomsday Clock is about a Hope so strong it can't be contained to a single universe.

I really, really like that. I think it's even better than "more of the same as the original" would have been. Most writers, tasked with doing a sequel to Watchmen, would certainly have gone with "more of the same", because it's safe and it's easy. Johns, who has often been accused of many things as a writer, definitely didn't play it safe with his approach and I applaud him for it. Doing a "sequel" that both perfectly complements while totally subverting the original had to have been a daunting task, indeed. They're the same, but completely opposite... like Superman and Manhattan, themselves, in a sense. Two diametrically-opposed interpretations of the fundamental "Superman" idea... it only makes sense that, in the end, everything revolves around Them/Him.

It's not a perfect story by any means; as I said, I'm missing issues but it definitely sounds like the story was being booked on the fly a little bit towards the end over the last few, thanks to delays and things changing in Editorial at DC along the way, but I'm pretty sure this was how it was always going to end. I think some of the subplots and supporting cast were ultimately moved around or trimmed down from what they were originally planned to be in order to get the damn books done, and that's unfortunate. BUT, knowing DC, I have little to no doubt that there will be a Collected Edition, probably Expanded and in hardcover, with tons of extra pages that didn't make the cut this time around. So hopefully some of that stuff will be given more room to breathe at that point. It sucks for those who have been following it in single-issues, but a lot of people have been waiting for the collection with this series, anyway, especially with all the delays.

I'm going to try and go to the shop this weekend and see if I can pick up the issues I'm missing. I've enjoyed it a ton so far but I've been nervous how they'd stick the landing, and I'm really, really happy with the pages I've seen so far.

Good stuff.

[Andrew NDB]

Like all of Geoff Johns' events, it just set up more events. And it took him two years to even do that.

[Leo656]

Anyone who still reads comic books in 2019 should know that the "ending" of any One Thing is just the beginning of Six More Things. As a matter of fact, anyone who's been reading since 1993 should know that.

I don't watch Police Academy movies expecting deep philosophical discussions about the human condition, and people shouldn't read comic books expecting closure and closed-door resolutions. You have to meet your chosen entertainment medium halfway sometimes, bro.

Also, pretty sure most/all of the delays were squarely put on Gary Frank? Maybe I'm misremembering, but that's what I heard. And it makes sense; he and Johns have even collaborated before, multiple times, and every single time it takes him 30 years to draw the damn books. The result is worth the wait, in my opinion, he's an amazing artist and I wouldn't want anyone else to have drawn this series. But from Superman: Secret Origins to World of New Krypton and now this book, Frank simply cannot meet a deadline to save his life. Probably too busy tracing over publicity photos of Chris Reeve and making sure he gets his dimples Just Right.

(I kid, he's actually toned down the Reeve homage a lot while still making it a visible part of the character, so I tip my hat to him for evolving over time. He's still slow as f*ck.)

But yeah, if it's anything like their past collaborations, Johns isn't the reason the book was late. Pretty sure the major scripting was done two years ago. They were already hinting at the ending even before that. Script was done, Frank just draws slow. Gotta point fingers at the right people if we're gonna point fingers at all.

[Andrew NDB]

I've heard from multiple people that it was Johns holding it up. Too busy. Working on his Green Lantern Corps script that won't even be used and Stargirl stuff, probably.

[Leo656]

((Shrugs)) Either way, it's fine by me.

Everybody knows by now that "DC" stands for "Don't Count On These Books Shipping On Time."

.........I know, that was terrible. I tried! Sometimes this sh*t is hard.

[MikeandRaph87]

I have been using my free time to reread my New Teen Titans run and thought I would drop a thought here for anyone familiar with the title. The main story last through #55 which is where my run ends. The series is given praise for its characterization, but the romances in this title don't make any sense aside from forced advancement of a plot or a character that are not really aligned with the character. Dick Grayson falling for Starfire goes around with the group as Robin, Nightwing or himself and is seen in public with Starfire. Its like he is outing his secret identity and Batman's as well and its never mentioned. Then there is Terry Long, a divorced father with a ginger afro. He is over 30 years old and is in a whirlwind romance with Donna Troy who is 19? The purpose of Terry is supposed to be the normal person interacting with people of great abilities when its really just creepy. Wolfman and Prez could have created a 22 year old newly graduated trying his hand at Wall Street instead. Then there is Wally West who is head over heels for Raven who does not reciprocate, but he has Frances Kane, the future Magenta and still pines for Raven. Finally, Changeling/Beast Boy has the hots for Terra. Its all one-sided and the way he flirts with her is ridiculous that it cannot be taken seriously. Despite the character evolution this characters are supposed to go through there are so many romances that make little sense to the characters involved. It is never touched on when people refer to the run.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

CBR don't know s*it. Never have.

https://www.newsarama.com/47928-batman-83.html

Considering this love of The Last Jedi making a liberal agenda of it as it tears apart The Rise of Skywalekr that tried to fix the mess CBR will not admit The Last Jedi is.

I am trying to get this straight...so Alfred lied to Bruce stating that he was safe when in fact he was Bane's captive. Batman believing Alfred initiated his plan thus Alfred sacrificed himself. The point of this was King stating that Bruce does not need a dead parent to avenge to be Batman. He can be Batman and be happy as Alfred has taught him. Did I get that right? Also, is that why Lucius Fox suddenly knows that Bruce is Batman? So we have an insider of both of his lives that does not fight alongside him?

[ZariusTwo]

Well, it's finally happened...they've brought back Superboy Prime

[ZariusTwo]

Right now the current plan is for all major DC Universe titles to come to a close in the summer, the special transistional event will then run for two months, followed by 5G and the black label titles with iconic stories preserving the traditional heroes. This might have all changed though. And apparently this was what forced Pat McCallum to quit.

Metal 2 is currently going by the title "Death Metal". This event will be reportedly where Superman and Batman age up, though Snyder and Capullo have been 'resisting' attempts to connect it with tissue from 5G and Doomsday Clock.

Bruce and Clark will be in their 60s when 5G arrives.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/01...jokers-robins/