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Old 02-23-2016, 05:03 AM   #161
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:30 AM   #162
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Controversial? That was the only thing I liked that came out of the New 52.
No offense, pal, but you're one of a tiny minority. Babs was pretty much the only handicapped hero in the entire industry and poof, undone.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:46 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
No offense, pal, but you're one of a tiny minority. Babs was pretty much the only handicapped hero in the entire industry and poof, undone.
i'm not so sure about that?

the barbara gordon batgirl series has maintained fairly high ratings since it's launch.
even more shocking is how the new batgirl of burnside seems to be doing.

and oracle wasn't the only handicapped hero in the industry.
professor x was in a wheelchair long before killing joke ever happened.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:48 AM   #164
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i'm not so sure about that?

the barbara gordon batgirl series has maintained fairly high ratings since it's launch.
even more shocking is how the new batgirl of burnside seems to be doing.
Yeah, but Gail's run with the book was met with critical disdain (though it's less her fault and more editorial forcing her to make the book too dark), and now the book gets hits simply by pandering to the feminist hipster tumblr crowd, it's far removed from "proper" Batgirl

As for Xavier...he's also regained the use of his legs on and off in tje comics, to the point it was becoming as much a joke as the mansion constantly blowing up (the lattr of which which even got a reference in the Deadpool movie)
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:58 AM   #165
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i'm not so sure about that?

the barbara gordon batgirl series has maintained fairly high ratings since it's launch.
even more shocking is how the new batgirl of burnside seems to be doing.

and oracle wasn't the only handicapped hero in the industry.
professor x was in a wheelchair long before killing joke ever happened.
If you go back and look at all of the hype before the New 52 officially debuted, people's reactions were overwhelmingly against Babs reverting to Batgirl. The vast majority of her character development happened as Oracle; it was seen as the equivalent of sending Dick back to being Robin.

While some people liked Simone's "Batgirl" run, I don't think it was anything close to stellar. It had some okay stories, a lot of forgettable villains except for Joker and James Jr, but for some reason got turned into Hipster Babs.

And points to you, I can't believe I forgot about Charlie X.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:04 AM   #166
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Yeah, but Gail's run with the book was met with critical disdain (though it's less her fault and more editorial forcing her to make the book too dark), and now the book gets hits simply by pandering to the feminist hipster tumblr crowd, it's far removed from "proper" Batgirl

As for Xavier...he's also regained the use of his legs on and off in tje comics, to the point it was becoming as much a joke as the mansion constantly blowing up (the lattr of which which even got a reference in the Deadpool movie)
that actually was a shame about Gail's Batgirl run! it was SO exhausting all the misery!!!
it's hard to even think about re-reading it even though i love the character!

the Batgirl of Burnside was kind of fun in the beginning, but then it got WAY to patronizing to the feminist hipsters to the point of Extreme nausea and i had to drop the title!!

that was pretty hysterical Deadpool mocking the x-men's mansion constantly blowing up!

best line - "it rhymes with pullverine."
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:10 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
If you go back and look at all of the hype before the New 52 officially debuted, people's reactions were overwhelmingly against Babs reverting to Batgirl. The vast majority of her character development happened as Oracle; it was seen as the equivalent of sending Dick back to being Robin.

While some people liked Simone's "Batgirl" run, I don't think it was anything close to stellar. It had some okay stories, a lot of forgettable villains except for Joker and James Jr, but for some reason got turned into Hipster Babs.

And points to you, I can't believe I forgot about Charlie X.
there was so much hate about Babs walking again, but i have to be honest she was always my favorite Batgirl even more than Casandra Cain.

and i can't believe just how popular hipster Babs has become!!!
i'm a bit worried that little tweeting hipster may stick around even after rebirth?
i don't mind Babs walking, but her being a bubblehead is just awful!

hahaha! yeah i had to scratch my head for a bit before ol' Charles X popped in there!
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:39 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
If you go back and look at all of the hype before the New 52 officially debuted, people's reactions were overwhelmingly against Babs reverting to Batgirl. The vast majority of her character development happened as Oracle; it was seen as the equivalent of sending Dick back to being Robin.

While some people liked Simone's "Batgirl" run, I don't think it was anything close to stellar. It had some okay stories, a lot of forgettable villains except for Joker and James Jr, but for some reason got turned into Hipster Babs.

And points to you, I can't believe I forgot about Charlie X.
You see that is just it. Barbara is best as Bargirl just as Dick is at his own best as Robin. It is hard to set a solid direction for them otherwise. Dick was designed to be Batman and why not Barbara his opposite number as Batwoman? I feel like there is much more to work with and the costumed identities can grow with the person under the mask.
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:45 PM   #169
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You see that is just it. Barbara is best as Bargirl just as Dick is at his own best as Robin. It is hard to set a solid direction for them otherwise. Dick was designed to be Batman and why not Barbara his opposite number as Batwoman? I feel like there is much more to work with and the costumed identities can grow with the person under the mask.
I disagree that they're best as Batgirl and Robin. I think they need to evolve past their initial roles to leadership roles, Nightwing (and eventually Batman) and Oracle.

But hey, $0.02.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:08 PM   #170
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personally, i got tired of reading the usual trope of "They're headed to Oracle's Tower!!! We gotta go rescue her!!!
Barbara Gordon as Batgirl (or even evolve her into Batwoman) offers a lot more opportunity for story-telling.

i can understand DC making her reclaim the mantle as Batgirl, but as much as i enjoy Dick Grayson as Robin there's NO WAY i'd want to not see him as Nightwing!!!
even his roll as Agent 37 is a lot of fun to read as he has many layers from all the different capes he's worn in the past.

now as cool as Agent 37 is, i'm pleased to hear they are finally bringing back Dick as Nightwing!!!
i just hope the team they give his does him justice!
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:30 PM   #171
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I disagree that they're best as Batgirl and Robin. I think they need to evolve past their initial roles to leadership roles, Nightwing (and eventually Batman) and Oracle.
^^ This. Having them grow and evolve into their own new roles is better than just simply keeping them as Batman's sidekicks. Same goes for legacy characters like Wally West and so on.
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:43 PM   #172
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one of the biggest things about rebirth, i'm not even sure if anyone has touched upon?

the major titles will ALL be bi-weekly!!!

now i don't know if anyone else here has read the weekly titles 'Batman Eternal' or 'Batman & Robin Eternal'?
but they are BOTH terrible!!!!

rushed underdeveloped writing and haphazard inconsistent art!

both series started out ok, but devolved into utter trash as they went.

sure, bi-weekly isn't as bad as weekly?
but seeing how DC couldn't get it together for most of their titles when they were coming out only ONCE a month!

pretty sure this move will end up bitting them in the y'arse in the long run?
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:46 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
You see that is just it. Barbara is best as Bargirl just as Dick is at his own best as Robin. It is hard to set a solid direction for them otherwise. Dick was designed to be Batman and why not Barbara his opposite number as Batwoman? I feel like there is much more to work with and the costumed identities can grow with the person under the mask.
She's boring as all sin as Batgirl. As Oracle, she got to use her brainpower to work things out and was also an inspiration for people who were handicapped.
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:46 PM   #174
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one of the biggest things about rebirth, i'm not even sure if anyone has touched upon?

the major titles will ALL be bi-weekly!!!

now i don't know if anyone else here has read the weekly titles 'Batman Eternal' or 'Batman & Robin Eternal'?
but they are BOTH terrible!!!!

rushed underdeveloped writing and haphazard inconsistent art!

both series started out ok, but devolved into utter trash as they went.

sure, bi-weekly isn't as bad as weekly?
but seeing how DC couldn't get it together for most of their titles when they were coming out only ONCE a month!

pretty sure this move will end up bitting them in the y'arse in the long run?
While I absolutely agree with you, Batman & Robin Eternal has been FAR SUPERIOR to Batman Eternal. They really improved their game.

But they went from F- to, let's be nice and say a C+ or B-.
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:59 PM   #175
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I disagree that they're best as Batgirl and Robin. I think they need to evolve past their initial roles to leadership roles, Nightwing (and eventually Batman) and Oracle.

But hey, $0.02.
I feel like the costumed identities are been stereotyped and believed to have a limit. Why not let the role grow with the person behind the mask/under the cowl? Dick can be Robin but as an adult and not the #2 under Batman, but an equal who happens to be first on his speed dial? Barbara remaining as Batgirl seems to be easier to gain support yet I don't know why. Limiting her to being an information broker like Dick as Nightwing lets them grow, but to a point. The same can be argued for Robin and Batgirl. Its just as their classic guises they have much more to work with and the roles can be bent easier. People just have to get past Robin being a sidekick and Batgirl being stereotyped. I always felt trying to separate Dick from Bruce as Nightwing took away from his roots and who he was. He can be Robin in Bludhaven and lead the Titans and come in to aide Bruce whenever necessary. A steadier role should follow as well.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:11 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
I feel like the costumed identities are been stereotyped and believed to have a limit. Why not let the role grow with the person behind the mask/under the cowl? Dick can be Robin but as an adult and not the #2 under Batman, but an equal who happens to be first on his speed dial? Barbara remaining as Batgirl seems to be easier to gain support yet I don't know why. Limiting her to being an information broker like Dick as Nightwing lets them grow, but to a point. The same can be argued for Robin and Batgirl. Its just as their classic guises they have much more to work with and the roles can be bent easier. People just have to get past Robin being a sidekick and Batgirl being stereotyped. I always felt trying to separate Dick from Bruce as Nightwing took away from his roots and who he was. He can be Robin in Bludhaven and lead the Titans and come in to aide Bruce whenever necessary. A steadier role should follow as well.
Bold red, green, and yellow are not the color of an adult superhero. Unless you're Vision, I guess.

I much prefer Robin as a legacy title, opening the door to the likes of Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Duke Thomas, and even (I suppose) Carrie Kelly.

Same for Batgirl.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:21 PM   #177
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I really like Batgirl of Burnside, but I also like Babs as Oracle. Too bad we can't have both, since DC are jackwagons not doing the multiverse anymore. Despite getting a pretty nifty system set up by Morrison.
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:25 PM   #178
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While I absolutely agree with you, Batman & Robin Eternal has been FAR SUPERIOR to Batman Eternal. They really improved their game.

But they went from F- to, let's be nice and say a C+ or B-.
hahaha!!! yeah, as sad as it is, B&R Eternal is MUCH better than the major TurdFest that was Batman Eternal!!!

should have been called Batman E'turd'nal!!!
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Old 02-23-2016, 03:35 PM   #179
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I really like Batgirl of Burnside, but I also like Babs as Oracle. Too bad we can't have both, since DC are jackwagons not doing the multiverse anymore. Despite getting a pretty nifty system set up by Morrison.
seeing how Harper Row/Blue Bird is a tech-genius and really doesn't have much in the way of field training, i was really expecting her to get herself crippled while playing hero and end up becoming Oracle?

but the current writers at DC aren't clever enough to see that the roster of street vigilantes in Gotham is already over crowded.

so while characters like Stephanie Brown/Spoiler and Casandra Cain/Black Bat would make great additions to The Birds of Prey, they just keep shoving them into the Batman titles.

i really wish the Batgirl of Burnside would have kept it as least on the level as it was for the first 6 issues.
Babs still had traits of being smart and resourceful.
it just seems like they're devolving her into a giddy airhead.
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Old 02-24-2016, 12:41 PM   #180
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I read the new issue of Aquaman today. Already it's leagues better than Cullen's ill-fated run. Mera's replica Aquaman costume though
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