Jay and Silent Bob Reboot

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Heard it's still bad though.

[Andrew NDB]

Smith hasn't made a good film since Clerks 2, and that was 13 years ago. And that wasn't even all that.

[Andrew NDB]

Shooting has wrapped for the movie. Only took 21 days.

https://www.joblo.com/movie-news/kev...ent-bob-reboot

Huh. I didn't even think it was close to filming yet, let alone being done.

[Andrew NDB]

Reviews are savaging it:

https://film.avclub.com/only-diehard...and-1839083344

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/ja...ly-1202182317/

https://variety.com/2019/film/review...es-1203372001/

[AquaParade]

I find Kevin to be 3x as funny when just shooting the **** and talking current events/comic book news, than his scripts would lead me to believe.

[Andrew NDB]

There's no way to see it right now. There was a limited showing here in WA for 2 days back around 10/15 or so but I missed it/decided I didn't want to blow a whole evening after work watching it. I think it's just going to pop on VOD in a week or so.

[Andrew NDB]

Looks like the only way to see it now is the Roadshow, which is touring around the country with Kevin Smith. Like $50 a pop.

https://rebootroadshow.com/

It may not be on video on demand/Netflix/whatever for several months.

[Andrew NDB]

Finally saw it.

Well, it's about what I expected of it. It's like a lower budget "Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back," except with more heart... and it aims to make me feel really old. It works at that! A lot of laughs missed, a few hit hard. It's actually a more solid movie than "Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back," in that it actually is moving at times. Fleeting times, but times still. Some fun commentary on reboots and remakes and some prophetic stuff about the trajectory of that, also. Wasn't a super fan of the retconning of "Chasing Amy"... it seems a little bit designed to better position that movie fit with today's... eh, worldview.

And yeah, it's pretty clear after watching it who was the one saying "no" to being in Clerks 3. Though he's still in there a little bit.

Also... I hate to pick at such things but... Mewes' dentures, or whatever is going on there... a bit distracting. Like, you can't help but keep going, "Ehhh... what's going on there? Something's going on there."

[Leo656]

I'll bite, what's that about "Chasing Amy"?

I haven't seen "Reboot" yet. I almost picked it up the other day but passed, maybe next check. I've been almost afraid to see it.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Also... I hate to pick at such things but... Mewes' dentures, or whatever is going on there... a bit distracting. Like, you can't help but keep going, "Ehhh... what's going on there? Something's going on there."

Well, it was bound to happen. Dude's been pretty much a full-time junkie for most of the last 20-odd years, no? Sh*t's bad for ya.

Kevin must have a huge heart to maintain a friendship with Mewes in spite of all that kinda sh*t. I've regrettably known a ton of guys like Mewes and at some point you generally wish they'd either drop dead or get arrested for a felony, just so they'd stop f*cking sh*t up for themselves and everyone around them. I'unno if the dude "found Jesus" or whatever, and if he's legit clean then good for him, but I'd also start to worry about him now that these projects are happening and he's gonna be getting paid again and all that. That's generally when people fall off the wagon.

I'unno. Good on Kevin for having a big heart; I personally can't be around people like that. They steal a lot.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'll bite, what's that about "Chasing Amy"?

Spoiler:

Basically, Affleck's reformed lesbian from it was "always" a lesbian, and is a lesbian again, and she has a girlfriend now who together with her agreed to have Ben impregnate her to have a kid. So he's like this third part parental figure, which is fine, I get... but doesn't seem at all with what the ending of that movie left us with, even if tempers were high.

I haven't seen "Reboot" yet. I almost picked it up the other day but passed, maybe next check. I've been almost afraid to see it.

I'll tell you like this. If you even MODERATELY liked Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back (I didn't, really, for a variety of reasons that range between Smith aping his own original Jay & Silent Bob comic that came out like a year or two before that, plus it just plain not being funny)... then absolutely watch it. But if you enjoyed any of those movies you should watch it just to see what he does here. It's interesting. If nothing else, there is smidgens of very interesting talking points. Like, well thought out ones. As a dad, personally, the other stuff hit me.

Kevin must have a huge heart to maintain a friendship with Mewes in spite of all that kinda sh*t.

The bigger Smith fans would know better than me, but the general sense I get of the history is... Smith enabled him (as in, suddenly made him a millionaire, or at least a hundred thousandaire)... felt bad when he saw what it did to him (as in, suddenly Mewes had buckoo bucks to buy... whatever drugs he bought, I'm not even sure what but I'm assuming coke), stepped back, and now he's kind of tip-toeing back in with this movie as a "congratulations" to him? Eh, something like that.

[Leo656]

Fair points. I did enjoy "Strike Back" for what it is, and still do to a point - it's unapologetic fan-wank and it's funny at times even if it's unapologetically a "bad movie" - but what little I've seen of the non-Askewniverse stuff has had me wondering if the guy simply lost it at some point. Because I haven't seen much, but what I had seen of stuff like Tusk and Yoga Hosers was f*cking wretched. And this project always kinda reeked of desperation, to me.

Regardless, I'll definitely see it one way or the other. I first got into those movies just as I was getting out of high school, and like a lot of kids that age they really affected me then for a lot of reasons, and I maintain that there's still a lot to like although a lot of it admittedly isn't as "cool" or as "edgy" or "funny" as it is when you're 17 or 18, going back to them after age 30.

I'm also from NJ and around 2000 to 2007 Smith was a legit folk hero of sorts around here, at least among a certain type of young person. I never met him or any of the main cast players - my wife once met O'Halloran at a Toys R Us she was working at - mostly because I never went out of my way to do so, but a lot of people I know have. Lots of people still love to play the "Spot The Local Landmark" game, or talk about how they were at the mall that day when they were filming this or that scene in "Mallrats", or whatever. So all his Askewniverse stuff definitely has a sentimental appeal for me, even if some of it hasn't aged well and the formula has changed. Which it definitely has, I mean the shift in tone and sensibility even between "Strike Back" and "Clerks 2" showed how far Smith had shifted from "Young Iconoclast Poking Fun At Sacred Cows" to "Middle-Aged Pseudo-Hipster Struggling With A Mid-Life Crisis But Still Trying To Seem 'Cool'." I'unno. You've made me feel better about watching the new one, though.

Possibly right about Mewes and Smith feeling some guilt about his situation, but he frankly shouldn't. Everyone is responsible for their own actions; "enabling" someone by helping them suddenly get a lot of money maybe doesn't help if they're already weak of body, mind and spirit, but what you do each day is up to You and you alone, nobody else. So if Mewes had a drug problem, it's nobody but Jay Mewes's fault.

I don't know the full story but I know Mewes was arrested for heroin at least a couple of times. I wouldn't doubt if he was a cokehead too, though. He always seemed to me like the kind of guy who simply lives to get high, and whatever drug is there is good enough in the moment; friends of mine who've met him confirm that, but to be fair that was years ago.

My Dad, a notorious drug abuser, used to declare, "Nobody ever gets sober, they just get discreet. People who get high like getting high; they don't quit, they just hide it better so people will leave 'em the f*ck alone about it." This has been true in every single case I've ever been privy to. So yeah, I'd worry about Mewes going forward if they're suddenly doing projects again. He already has the built-in excuse if he falls off the wagon. Not that I'm rooting for that, keep in mind, I'm definitely not. I'm just saying sh*t happens.

Regarding "Chasing Amy", yeah, I feel you, but I can also see it. It's been over 20 years, in real life and for these characters. Lots of people I know who had huge falling outs in their late teens/early 20s, sometimes violently, with huge doses of "NEVER talk to me again!" are all good buddies who talk every day now. Some of them are closer now than they were then. Life happens. Yeah, it doesn't mesh with what the ending of that movie presents but everyone involved would surely be in a totally different life situation, now. So I can buy it.

Also, I can totally believe that Alyssa's character would go back to the "always been a lesbian" self-description for several reasons. For starters, in-universe her so-called friends were already bi-shaming her for being with a man and it clearly bothered her; the bad break-up with Holden would make it super easy for those people to have gotten into her head and convinced her that she wasn't bisexual at all, she was just being manipulated by Evil Men, and she would definitely have been open to that suggestion given what a vulnerable place the events would have left her in at the time. As un-PC as it sounds, a lot of those people crave the comfort and support of a group, so I can see her ultimately just chalking her relationship with Holden up to being an aberration in the grand scheme of things, whether that's true or fair to him or not. Plus, he was clearly really into her, so I can definitely see her being "the one who got away", for him, and him secretly just wanting to be a part of her life in any way possible.

It's not what I would have done with the characters, but it makes sense in-universe for everyone involved. And, as you mentioned, the current climate.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Fair points. I did enjoy "Strike Back" for what it is, and still do to a point - it's unapologetic fan-wank and it's funny at times even if it's unapologetically a "bad movie" - but what little I've seen of the non-Askewniverse stuff has had me wondering if the guy simply lost it at some point.

Oh, he did. And he's admitted such.

Because I haven't seen much, but what I had seen of stuff like Tusk and Yoga Hosers was f*cking wretched. And this project always kinda reeked of desperation, to me.

I actually... eh, kind of liked Tusk. It wasn't pretentious. Red State was weak, missed opportunity. The other ones since... yikes!

Regardless, I'll definitely see it one way or the other. I first got into those movies just as I was getting out of high school, and like a lot of kids that age they really affected me then for a lot of reasons, and I maintain that there's still a lot to like although a lot of it admittedly isn't as "cool" or as "edgy" or "funny" as it is when you're 17 or 18, going back to them after age 30.

Yeah. By the same brush I'm scared to watch like, the horror movies of my childhood now (for fear they'll be exposed as bullsh**), I'm afraid to do a Kevin Smith marathon. I think of all of them will suffer. "Clerks" and "Chasing Amy" will hold up, if only because he was really trying there. He also tried with "Jersey Girl" and got scared away from ever really trying again after that... but he shouldn't have.

And by the way. "Jersey Girl" AND "Gigli." Not bad movies! Better than most of the regular Kevin Smith universe. Unfairly maligned.

Which it definitely has, I mean the shift in tone and sensibility even between "Strike Back" and "Clerks 2" showed how far Smith had shifted from "Young Iconoclast Poking Fun At Sacred Cows" to "Middle-Aged Pseudo-Hipster Struggling With A Mid-Life Crisis But Still Trying To Seem 'Cool'." I'unno.

A good point. And back then, that seemed so long of a chasm. Now... shesus.

You've made me feel better about watching the new one, though.

I've started and stopped the movie several times over the last week. Today I committed. I'm glad I did. Very fun.

Possibly right about Mewes and Smith feeling some guilt about his situation, but he frankly shouldn't. Everyone is responsible for their own actions; "enabling" someone by helping them suddenly get a lot of money maybe doesn't help if they're already weak of body, mind and spirit, but what you do each day is up to You and you alone, nobody else. So if Mewes had a drug problem, it's nobody but Jay Mewes's fault.

I think the bigger thing is... if you KNOW if you employ dude, he will use all said monies toward drugs you've already known him to do... eh. It's a sticky thing. I get it.

I don't know the full story but I know Mewes was arrested for heroin at least a couple of times. I wouldn't doubt if he was a cokehead too, though. He always seemed to me like the kind of guy who simply lives to get high, and whatever drug is there is good enough in the moment; friends of mine who've met him confirm that, but to be fair that was years ago.

My Dad, a notorious drug abuser, used to declare, "Nobody ever gets sober, they just get discreet. People who get high like getting high; they don't quit, they just hide it better so people will leave 'em the f*ck alone about it." This has been true in every single case I've ever been privy to. So yeah, I'd worry about Mewes going forward if they're suddenly doing projects again. He already has the built-in excuse if he falls off the wagon. Not that I'm rooting for that, keep in mind, I'm definitely not. I'm just saying sh*t happens.

I don't know if I agree with your dad 100%, but I get what he's throwing down. But I don't think there will be a ton of more... what did they used to call it? The Jerseyverse movies? I don't even remember. In any case, I think they're done here, until if and when he does a Clerks 3. Mallrats 2 never should have even been a thing and could only be ironic now, and this particular movie actually gave that a great punchline.

Regarding "Chasing Amy", yeah, I feel you, but I can also see it. It's been over 20 years, in real life and for these characters. Lots of people I know who had huge falling outs in their late teens/early 20s, sometimes violently, with huge doses of "NEVER talk to me again!" are all good buddies who talk every day now. Some of them are closer now than they were then. Life happens. Yeah, it doesn't mesh with what the ending of that movie presents but everyone involved would surely be in a totally different life situation, now. So I can buy it.

Maybe so. I just wish we weren't in the era we are in now. If we weren't, I could watch this and be like, "Ohhh, OK. That makes sense." As is, it seems reactionary. And retroactively "Ehhh... hold on, hold on, what I ACTUALLY meant 20 years later is {.........}". Which seems like a copout. That's not what he meant then. Which is fine. That was a different time.

Just kind of seems like Kevin Smith seizing his 2 minutes with his Ben Affleck cameo to heal whatever worries he's worried about with whatever the current whatever is.

Also, I can totally believe that Alyssa's character would go back to the "always been a lesbian" self-description for several reasons. For starters, in-universe her so-called friends were already bi-shaming her for being with a man and it clearly bothered her; the bad break-up with Holden would make it super easy for those people to have gotten into her head and convinced her that she wasn't bisexual at all, she was just being manipulated by Evil Men, and she would definitely have been open to that suggestion given what a vulnerable place the events would have left her in at the time. As un-PC as it sounds, a lot of those people crave the comfort and support of a group, so I can see her ultimately just chalking her relationship with Holden up to being an aberration in the grand scheme of things, whether that's true or fair to him or not. Plus, he was clearly really into her, so I can definitely see her being "the one who got away", for him, and him secretly just wanting to be a part of her life in any way possible.

It's not what I would have done with the characters, but it makes sense in-universe for everyone involved. And, as you mentioned, the current climate.

I guess so.

[Leo656]

I still pop in any of the "classic"/Askewniverse stuff from time to time. I definitely feel more of a sense that I've personally changed over time than anything, when some stuff that used to slay me no longer does, or whatever. And I guess that's okay. If you still feel exactly the same way about a movie or TV show 20 years later, especially ones as essentially "fluffy" and even vapid as those movies are, it means you simply haven't grown as a person. Not saying, "It's only right to hate on things you liked as a younger person", far from it, but it's only natural that things designed by and for people age 18-25 are going to lose some of their shine when a viewer revisits them many years later.

It's less like the movies themselves don't hold up or have lost any luster; collectively, they were objectively Good But Mediocre (and more than a little over-hyped by the obsessive fanbase) back then and that's all still true now. I think that by design they only truly work best when you're the target audience. They're still exactly what they were, but we've changed, and likewise they're not going to seem as "brilliant" as they once did. But they probably still might to an 18-25 year old dealing with the same stuff.

Like, at age 17 watching "Clerks", it's like "YEAH man, stick it to The Man! Aspire for greatness! Don't settle for less than you think you're worth!" and nowadays I'm kinda like, "Jesus, I'd fire both of these idiots, don't they realize they're lucky to even have jobs at all?"

I do agree that in a vacuum, Clerks and Chasing Amy are the best ones. I always liked Mallrats more than most people, but I have my reasons. Tits being one, and at one point I had a lot more in common with Brodie than I'm comfortable with now. People still tell me I'm like Randall mixed with Brodie, but I'm a lot less proud of that Now than I was back in the day. Although as I've gotten older, I think Randall is my favorite character in the entire series. He's generally the only one who ever comes close to being anything like a Voice Of Reason even when he's being an asshole or a willful idiot, and he's the only one who feels secure in themselves and not at any given time either projecting a front or dealing with an existential crises. I kind of admire that. Jay shares some of those traits but not in any positive way.

Ah, yeah, "Jersey Girl" actually wasn't bad. That's another one I was afraid to watch but actually hit pretty close to home. Boy, if I had a nickel for every parent I knew who dropped one of those "You ruined my life and I want it back!" bombs on their kid. As soon as that hit, I said to my wife, "Yeah, I can see why this movie didn't do well." Because people don't like to go to the movies and see sh*t like that, but that's some real sh*t right there. I always got told sh*t like that by my parents, my wife STILL gets told that stuff by hers sometimes, my sister tells her kids that... it happens. It happens a LOT, to the point where I kind of just naturally assume that most if not all parents resent the sh*t out of their kids because that's what I'm used to seeing my whole life. But I can see why having stuff like that in the movie hurt the box office and critical reception. "Real" or not, that's not what people want to watch in a movie. But I dug it because it was legit. That whole movie was a lot better and more "real" than I expected. Good call on that one.

And I definitely agree about why he put that bit about Chasing Amy in the Reboot flick. He's been apologizing for that movie ever since he made it - for no good reason, but I can see he felt a lot of pressure to "fix" it and get the lesbians and feminists to stop yelling at him over it. So while I feel it can make sense from a story perspective, the "real life" reasons don't surprise me one bit.
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My wife has seen most/all of his other new-ish stuff, like Yoga Hosers. She still likes them, but she's one of those "If you're a fan of someone you have to like every single thing they do", and "If you liked a thing when you were younger you HAVE to love it unconditionally forever to the exact same degree" type of people, and is not in any way objective. Plus she thinks it's "neat" that Depp's kid and Smith's kid do movies together now, since she's a huge Depp mark. So whether those movies are any good or not, they're great to her. I really don't wanna watch 'em.

Having unconditional love for a person's entire catalog of work just because you liked a couple things they did a long time ago seems incredibly silly to me. Like, it might make me more inclined to give someone the benefit of the doubt if I've enjoyed other stuff of theirs, but the whole "I love everything ______ has ever done!" thing seems really, really silly. I feel like it started with the Tim Burton Cult in the 90s and now it's everywhere.