[WTB] TMNT #29 "Fan Comic" version

[TheWarrior97]

Really would like one. Please let me know if you have one to sell.
Its the TMNT #29 comic with "Fan Print" written in the upper left corner.
Created by Nortock Diab.

Thanks

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

This is not a fan-comic (like the Image Conclusion or Odyssey) but rather a bootleg of copyrighted material made for those too cheap to pay for a licensed copy. The production of this book was illegal and purchasing it is also.

[Mike Lowrey]

Originally Posted by ***First of Two Latin Kings***

This is not a fan-comic (like the Image Conclusion or Odyssey) but rather a bootleg of copyrighted material made for those too cheap to pay for a licensed copy. The production of this book was illegal and purchasing it is also.

I agree! Anybody who is making copies of licensed and copyrighted material should be reported, not supported!

[TheWarrior97]

Still interested! Thanks though.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by ***First of Two Latin Kings***

This is not a fan-comic (like the Image Conclusion or Odyssey) but rather a bootleg of copyrighted material made for those too cheap to pay for a licensed copy. The production of this book was illegal and purchasing it is also.

This is all correct. And attempting to deal in illegal merchandise could have ramifications to this forum should someone pursue legal action. Best to just shut this thread down and move on.

[TheWarrior97]

Originally Posted by Peter Palmer

This is all correct. And attempting to deal in illegal merchandise could have ramifications to this forum should someone pursue legal action. Best to just shut this thread down and move on.

Do you have a copy of the book, either of you? I personally don't have a copy...yet...so I can't really say for 100% it is as horrendous as you three describe. I would have to have a physical copy, in my hands, and flip through every page and compare to the one it is accused of being photocopied from. I am just interested in fulfilling my completest collection of all TMNT comic printed...and I'm told, this one is printed.
If it is as serious as you say, I would seriously need to look this book over before I start pointing fingers, especially if I have never held the book...know what I mean. So if anyone has a copy, please PM so I can "verify" it for myself. *wink*

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by TheWarrior97

Do you have a copy of the book, either of you? I personally don't have a copy...yet...so I can't really say for 100% it is as horrendous as you three describe. I would have to have a physical copy, in my hands, and flip through every page and compare to the one it is accused of being photocopied from. I am just interested in fulfilling my completest collection of all TMNT comic printed...and I'm told, this one is printed.
If it is a serious as you say, I would seriously need to look this book over before I start pointing fingers, especially if I have never held the book...know what I mean. So if anyone has a copy, PM so I can verify it for myself.

As far as I know this fan version was never printed in comic form just released digitally. The interior pages however were printed elsewhere in an Italian publication.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by TheWarrior97

Do you have a copy of the book, either of you? I personally don't have a copy...yet...so I can't really say for 100% it is as horrendous as you three describe. I would have to have a physical copy, in my hands, and flip through every page and compare to the one it is accused of being photocopied from. I am just interested in fulfilling my completest collection of all TMNT comic printed...and I'm told, this one is printed.
If it is a serious as you say, I would seriously need to look this book over before I start pointing fingers, especially if I have never held the book...know what I mean. So if anyone has a copy, PM so I can verify it for myself.

The guy who made these illegal bootleg copies did so because he didn't want to pay the going rate for an authentic copy. While printing out a digital version for personal use likely isn't a crime, printing out copyrighted material (of which TMNT comics certainly qualify) and then distributing it certainly is.

This is what this guy did and it was illegal. He proceeded to make the copies and distribute them after being told it was illegal by several people. He stated that it didn't "feel" illegal and said that he's fine as long as he's only breaking even and not clearing a profit (which is incorrect). In the thread, at least one person claimed to have received a copy of the book. The thread was then removed, though it's unclear if it was removed at the request of the original poster or by the moderation team after they caught wind of the illegal activity.

This guy was committing illegal activity and broadcasting it on a public forum. The practice shouldn't be supported as doing so harms the community as a whole. As for collecting every printed TMNT comic, stick to known studio releases or even mass-produced works of fan fiction. There's more than enough there to keep you busy. Don't let your moral fiber be compromised for the sake of your collection.

[TheWarrior97]

Originally Posted by Peter Palmer

The guy who made these illegal bootleg copies did so because he didn't want to pay the going rate for an authentic copy. While printing out a digital version for personal use likely isn't a crime, printing out copyrighted material (of which TMNT comics certainly qualify) and then distributing it certainly is.

This is what this guy did and it was illegal. He proceeded to make the copies and distribute them after being told it was illegal by several people. He stated that it didn't "feel" illegal and said that he's fine as long as he's only breaking even and not clearing a profit (which is incorrect). In the thread, at least one person claimed to have received a copy of the book. The thread was then removed, though it's unclear if it was removed at the request of the original poster or by the moderation team after they caught wind of the illegal activity.

This guy was committing illegal activity and broadcasting it on a public forum. The practice shouldn't be supported as doing so harms the community as a whole. As for collecting every printed TMNT comic, stick to known studio releases or even mass-produced works of fan fiction. There's more than enough there to keep you busy. Don't let your moral fiber be compromised for the sake of your collection.

Dude, move along. You obviously don't have one, and thus are of no importance to me.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by TheWarrior97

Dude, move along. You obviously don't have one, and thus are of no importance to me.

I may be of no importance to you, but I care about this forum, and more importantly the TMNT community, too much to let this kind of shady business transpire unopposed.

I initially posted because I thought (hoped?) that you had heard about an item in passing and wanted it, not knowing about its illegal nature. Seeing your posts since you've learned that the item is illegal and thus against the Terms of Service on this site to buy, sell, or advocate here, it's very clear that you're simply here to stir up trouble.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

This guy needs a ban for threatening the integrity of this forum.

[Sabacooza]

And yet I bet everyone of you supported Andrew's various projects. Fan project or not, money is still changing hands so that's just as illegal. The hypocrisy here is ridiculous.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

And yet I bet everyone of you supported Andrew's various projects. Fan project or not, money is still changing hands so that's just as illegal. The hypocrisy here is ridiculous.

The two examples couldn't be more different.

Andrew's fan projects are comprised of original stories and art. Fan fiction has long been allowed to be legally produced and distributed citing fair use. What Andrew is doing/has done is 100% legal.

This #29 reproduction is someone taking copyrighted material (TMNT #29 in this instance), making copies of it, and selling it without any permission or consent from the copyright owner. It's like making copies of movies and selling them (also illegal, by the way).

There is a very clear distinction here that I hope you can see.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Agreed-- Nickelodeon seems to be honoring Mirage's extremely liberal policy on fan-art and fan-fiction, where the characters aren't original, but the circumstances they find themselves are, even if these circumstances are only slightly [original] in many cases.

What you're talking about is straight up thievery, and a slap in the face to boot, since Vol. 4 only broke even most of the time and rarely made a profit. Laird had to negotiate for rights to continue to reprint books if he so wished, the fact that he hasn't done so is irrelevant. That's his right as the co-creator who sold the property and nobody else's. If you're so hardcore, you should have bought a copy for $10 when it dropped. What would Laird think if he saw this thread.

I'm actually surprised you don't see the distinction, Sabacooza.

I say, throw the sh*tbags[s] out.

[TheWarrior97]

Still interested if anyone has one to sell.
Appreciate it.

[OA]

I'm curious what the group thinks about fake TMNT #1, Gobbledygooks, etc. that sell for healthy prices, even when marketed specifically as fakes, and that seem to be overall much more accepted in the community. Is it because it happened so long ago and collecting it "for posterity" makes it a bit more accepted? Because at the end of the day, just like this illegal 29 this guy is trying to buy, those too were copied off the originals and then sold without permission.

Not trying to start anything, but it's honestly something I've always wondered about. I personally have never had any desire for any of the above mentioned fakes in my collection and have passed every time the opportunity came my way. But there is a quite a bit of demand, including by fellow Dromers, and I haven't really seen much (any?) shooting down of those collectors...in fact, quite the opposite at times.

[d_osborn]

Originally Posted by OA

I'm curious what the group thinks about fake TMNT #1, Gobbledygooks, etc. that sell for healthy prices, even when marketed specifically as fakes, and that seem to be overall much more accepted in the community. Is it because it happened so long ago and collecting it "for posterity" makes it a bit more accepted? Because at the end of the day, just like this illegal 29 this guy is trying to buy, those too were copied off the originals and then sold without permission.

Not trying to start anything, but it's honestly something I've always wondered about. I personally have never had any desire for any of the above mentioned fakes in my collection and have passed every time the opportunity came my way. But there is a quite a bit of demand, including by fellow Dromers, and I haven't really seen much (any?) shooting down of those collectors...in fact, quite the opposite at times.

Great call. A similar thing popped up in the GB fandom recently. There's a pretty healthy collecting subset for bootlegs. Not just in toys/comics, but it a ton of other areas, as well. Music and vinyl records especially. When does a bootleg become a desired collectible? Talk about a gray area. Bootlegs are interesting from a historical perspective, honestly.

Not my thing, but is this covered in the forum TOS?

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by OA

I'm curious what the group thinks about fake TMNT #1, Gobbledygooks, etc. that sell for healthy prices, even when marketed specifically as fakes, and that seem to be overall much more accepted in the community. Is it because it happened so long ago and collecting it "for posterity" makes it a bit more accepted? Because at the end of the day, just like this illegal 29 this guy is trying to buy, those too were copied off the originals and then sold without permission.

Not trying to start anything, but it's honestly something I've always wondered about. I personally have never had any desire for any of the above mentioned fakes in my collection and have passed every time the opportunity came my way. But there is a quite a bit of demand, including by fellow Dromers, and I haven't really seen much (any?) shooting down of those collectors...in fact, quite the opposite at times.

For me, it's exactly like you say. These older counterfeit copies never really made it out of the 80's or early 90's. I've seen counterfeit copies of #1, #2, and Gobbledygook #1&2. They were preying on buyers in an era where authenticity was very difficult to determine due to lack of available information. These counterfeit copies that still exist are more tolerated because they are so well known and not marketed as anything other than "counterfeit". Plenty of collectors see these books as worthless.

I used to be the type who wanted to own these copies citing posterity as a reason. But I've owned counterfeit Gobbledygooks in the past and didn't really feel any connection with them. I got rid of them after I found out they weren't something I was truly interested in owning.

The difference between the 2 scenarios as I see it is this:
The older counterfeit books were created with the sole purpose of trying to dupe collectors into paying a lot of money for what they thought was an expensive, collectible book. These people were largely working discretely and very much under the radar. The harm was mostly felt by the buyer. The publisher didn't feel much effect as these items weren't competing with anything that Mirage was putting out. People weren't buying these copies to read the stories...they wanted collectible early print items that Mirage was no longer selling.

The newer counterfeit book is being marketed much differently. Everyone buying these knows they aren't authentic copies and the cost isn't very high. As such, the buyer isn't being harmed, but the publisher is as they are actively publishing and selling the copyrighted material that is being infringed upon. Nick/IDW seem to be working their way through the TMNT archives putting out many types of collected editions. Vol. 4 #29 is so desirable because of the low print run and the fact that many TMNT collectors want a physical copy to finish a run. If a collector has no hole to fill, chances are they'll be less likely to buy a collected edition that would otherwise fill said hole. And the fact that this illegal endeavor is being conducted so publicly just adds more salt in the wound.

The difference is subtle, but it's there. Both are illegal, but they differ in the methods and the people harmed.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

In my opinion, the real harm is done to Peter Laird, since he could reprint this via Mirage Studios if he wanted. It is wrong to steal from Nickelodeon too, sure, but it wouldn't be worth it to them to go after someone who printed what was probably a pretty low run of these.

The fact that this thread is still open shows we need more moderation. I haven't been here in days.