Marvel: "Dead No More"

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Probably the reason they're throwing in the very popular Kaine into this book as a supporting character, just to attract that audience. They're going to stick with Ben being "torn" between his sense of responsibility and his darker days as The Jackal...which are not exactly traits that fans of the character are used to.

Yeah, judging by what I've heard, Peter David has a good writing plan in place in regards to where the Ben clone has been left by Slott (at least it sounds like he's trying to writing something that has more depth than the run of the mill comic). But, I think that it's kind of suffering from the same problem of the root story; does Ben Reilly (or a clone of Ben Reilly) work as a well-intentioned villain? From what I know, the answer is "no."

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Will there even be an audience for it? I've gathered that Clone Conspiracy isn't exactly the fan favorite that Marvel was hoping and I've heard very few people happy with the new iteration of Ben Reilly.

Only in the sense that every big comic event leads to fan outrage and disappointment. I don't think that it's what the majority of readers think and for me personally while I could do without the Spider-verse elements (although I liked that story at the time and it makes sense in getting Kaine back) Clone Conspiracy has been a solid read so far.

S'funny, over the years I've read several fan theories of how Ben Reilly could be brought back and often they involve Ben going down a darker path. Perhaps because fans instinctively realise there's there's little point to having Ben back in modern day without setting him apart from Peter and frankly this has worked well for similar dead-forever characters like Bucky and Jason Todd. Still with Marvel actually does it...it becomes a different story.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Only in the sense that every big comic event leads to fan outrage and disappointment.

Huh, I got the impression that Secret Wars 2015 was generally well liked.

Originally Posted by Galactus

I don't think that it's what the majority of readers think and for me personally while I could do without the Spider-verse elements (although I liked that story at the time and it makes sense in getting Kaine back) Clone Conspiracy has been a solid read so far.

Okay, I could be wrong, but most of opinions I've seen seem to be "Meh," "This is a very mixed bag with a lot of problems," or "This is very awful." No rave reviews or a lot of love. I also understand that pre-orders are dropping like rocks, which is not very encouraging when Marvel was hyping it as the Spider-Man event of the year.

So, nothing scientific to draw conclusions on, but I haven't found the majority you're talking about. (I know everything I've heard and read about it has made me more and more reinforced in my decision to not read it, so that could be my bias.)

Originally Posted by Galactus

S'funny, over the years I've read several fan theories of how Ben Reilly could be brought back and often they involve Ben going down a darker path. Perhaps because fans instinctively realise there's there's little point to having Ben back in modern day without setting him apart from Peter and frankly this has worked well for similar dead-forever characters like Bucky and Jason Todd. Still with Marvel actually does it...it becomes a different story.

I'm not a Ben fan (personally, if you're even considering having a non-Peter Parker Spider-Man, that's my cue to walk away), but if I was, I would not be be very happy with him (or more accurately, his clone) becoming Jackal II and being a dark character that Marvel has warped him into; that's not what the character is about, any more that Spider-Man is about Peter Parker being a Tony Stark ripoff.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Galactus

S'funny, over the years I've read several fan theories of how Ben Reilly could be brought back and often they involve Ben going down a darker path.

But we already have/had that with Kaine, even back when Ben was alive, and Kaine's redeeming journey had much fan acclaim when they brought him back. It seems an awful lot like they're just rehashing. People may be more invested in what Kaine's going to be doing in this book than Ben.

Also, what exactly is it about Clone Conspiracy that makes it such a compelling read to you? The Spider-Verse elements are the only really interesting thing about it, everything else is the typical "Plot makes an ineffective idiot out of Peter Parker" story that Slott has become renowned for

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Huh, I got the impression that Secret Wars 2015 was generally well liked.

It is now and I know the first and especially the last issue got a lot of praise but at the time the fan response outside of Hickman's fanbase ranged from "meh" to "this is horrible" with heavy dollops of "nothing is happening, where's all the action?"

I'm not a Ben fan (personally, if you're even considering having a non-Peter Parker Spider-Man, that's my cue to walk away), but if I was, I would not be be very happy with him (or more accurately, his clone) becoming Jackal II and being a dark character that Marvel has warped him into; that's not what the character is about, any more that Spider-Man is about Peter Parker being a Tony Stark ripoff.

Again, I point out that most actual fan fiction revolving around Ben coming back usually has the character go down a dark. It's hard to say why since Ben wasn't really a dark character but then the concept of Mary Jane having powers and being a hero is not what the character was ever supposed to be but it's long seemed like a popular concept to the point that Renew Your Vows which is largely sold on reviving a more classic Spider-Man status quo has her as a fully fledged super hero. In addition he's not really that villainous. The latest issue of The Clone Conspiracy has him doing his villainous act yet and to be honest it's similar-ish to what Peter himself did in the original clone saga (it may even be an intentional call back). A cover of an upcoming Amazing Spider-Man issue has an unconscious Peter being fought over by Jackal and Ben-Jackal so unless Miles Warren takes a heroic turn I guessing Ben will end the story doing the right thing.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

But we already have/had that with Kaine, even back when Ben was alive, and Kaine's redeeming journey had much fan acclaim when they brought him back. It seems an awful lot like they're just rehashing. People may be more invested in what Kaine's going to be doing in this book than Ben.

Also, what exactly is it about Clone Conspiracy that makes it such a compelling read to you? The Spider-Verse elements are the only really interesting thing about it, everything else is the typical "Plot makes an ineffective idiot out of Peter Parker" story that Slott has become renowned for

I don't care for the heavy Spider-Verse elements for a few reasons. The big part is that a big selling point of this story is having Gwen Stacy back. It kinda dilutes it to have Spider-Gwen swinging around especially the way they played it with her impersonating the "real" Gwen, heck it's taken eight issues to get a proper conversation between Peter and Gwen.

Also I'm not overly keen on the whole Carrion virus going global aspect of the story. I get that Slott wants to show the high stakes involved, heck most of his run is Spidey going big but with so many familiar faces back it might have been better to keep this story a bit more personal in it's presentation. To be clear I don't object to these elements but it might have been better to just have Kaine back and maybe bring out Spider-Gwen in say the latest issue of Clone Conspiracy.

As for what I like about it? Well it's an interesting premise, I'd prefer something more than psychic imprint as an explanation of why these aren't just clones but the idea of exploring what if Peter could bring the people killed by his actions and in-actions back from the dead is worth exploring. It's steeped in Spider-Man history and frankly while I do agree with some fan complaints that Peter is an "inaffective idiot" under Slott's pen I don't really see anything in the story to support that. Perhaps you can enlighten me on why you think this?