Texas high school shooting

[plastroncafe]

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that your cousin isn't as cool with it as they say they are, and are just dealing with it.

Though maybe they have an innate set of coping mechanisms to deal, or maybe there are other aspects of their immediate family that have helped to develop those coping mechanisms.
Good for them regardless.

But just as everyone in the world will never run a 3 minute mile, everyone in the world doesn't have the same allotment of ability to cope.
Which is why it's important to listen to people when they tell you to stop. To not just develop, but respect the boundaries of other people.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Yeah...it's just a mildly animatronic head stuck on one of those cold, lifeless silicone "real doll"-type bodies.

No, not "cold." They heat up and get warm.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Insult your own children? Be the first to pop their bullying cherry?

Did I read that right?

[plastroncafe]

It's a nice little slippery slope we've set ourselves up here, not enough bullying from loved ones makes people weak, but too much bullying from peers leads to justifiable homicide.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Insult your own children? Be the first to pop their bullying cherry?

Did I read that right?

I think there is an area of beneficial "ribbing" that doesn't venture into Bullying™. Like, if you see your kid starting to become overweight you say something, you know? You don't just go, "Oh, you're perfect, you're amazing! More to love of you, my amazing child!"

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

I wonder if parents today just treat their kids like they're... well, precious little gems. I really do think that parents owe it to tell their kids they're goofy looking, and to bust their balls just a bit so that when they hear it from other people they're not as phased by it.

That does sound horrible, I know.

No, I'm not going to agree, because that just purposely tears at their self esteem and can create similar/same issues coming from the opposite angle. And kids are all different and it's going to vary what they can take, how they take it, and the tone used probably plays a big role. Gentle teasing that isn't mean spirited is one thing, and like your cousin maybe it can pad some kids to be able to brush off other teasing later. But unfortunately plenty of families DO use it only in a mean spirited and/or criticizing way. Take a kid who gets enough of it at home and then gets it a school... Yeah, not good if there is no place to get away from it.

Big difference between coddling them as "precious little gems" and simply being a good parent/other adult who pays attention and talks to them and shows them how to cope when thing get crappy. Don't tear them up... (I have a mother who did that and will forever resent her for it) just teach them how to deal when life and OTHER people try to. How to accept their feelings about something and move on.



Side note, you don't even have to coddle them to make them unable to put up with crap in life. What example are too many adults providing?? For every kid who witnesses a parent have a fit at and bully a store associate in order to try to get his/her way, or sees them argue with a teacher over a grade or disciplinary issues instead of taking it up with their kid, or sees their parent's terrible behavior on the road, to name a few... Yeah, what is that teaching? That it's always someone else's fault, that it's right to flip out if you aren't getting your way, esp if doing so will GET you your way, and having a meltdown is the proper response. If they aren't being SHOWN how to deal, then they aren't going to learn how to. Even if they are NOT the coddled sort. An angry kid from an angry family didn't have to be coddled to learn how to respond with anger to everything that doesn't go their way...

Some are strong enough to step past their upbringing, but most are not.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think there is an area of beneficial "ribbing" that doesn't venture into Bullying™. Like, if you see your kid starting to become overweight you say something, you know? You don't just go, "Oh, you're perfect, you're amazing! More to love of you, my amazing child!"

Of course you say something. But if your options are A: "Easy on the Little Debbies, lard ass!" and B: "Hey, champ, you're weighing in a little heavy... that's not healthy, so let's see if we can't fix that." and you think A is acceptable...

Well, you're a terrible parent.

[plastroncafe]

This is where the subject of safe spaces comes into play.
And why there's a difference between someone who loves you being concerned about your health and mental well-being, and someone who doesn't know you on the street telling you to put down that sandwich lard ass.

You can sometimes be reasonably assured in the fact that your family has your best interest at heart. And trust that if they cross a line, that they will back down.

Anecdotal evidence isn't the same thing as data but I sure do know a lot of women who got disordered eating because their parents follow A, and not B.

I feel for this newest high school shooter, I'm sure it no point in his life where his boundaries ever respected, so why should he respect the boundaries of others? He never learn how. But that doesn't let him off the hook for his actions.

I'll never forget being on another board where I was harassed and stalked by a user, only to have some of the moderators on that board say it was cute and that he was only joking and I shouldn't be worried about it.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that your cousin isn't as cool with it as they say they are, and are just dealing with it.

Though maybe they have an innate set of coping mechanisms to deal, or maybe there are other aspects of their immediate family that have helped to develop those coping mechanisms.
Good for them regardless.

But just as everyone in the world will never run a 3 minute mile, everyone in the world doesn't have the same allotment of ability to cope.
Which is why it's important to listen to people when they tell you to stop. To not just develop, but respect the boundaries of other people.

What's funny, is that I called him, and I asked him about it after I wrote the post. He told me he didn't like it as much as he led us to believe, but he was glad it happened anyway because it did toughen him up when he was bullied about his weight in school.

[plastroncafe]

My question for you is this:
If he'd have told you it bothered him at the time, would you have stopped and apologized?
Or would you have taken the discomfort you felt for being told you were harming a person and try to pass it back to them by saying you were only kidding?

Be honest.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

My question for you is this:
If he'd have told you it bothered him at the time, would you have stopped and apologized?
Or would you have taken the discomfort you felt for being told you were harming a person and try to pass it back to them by saying you were only kidding?

Be honest.

Of course. We did tell him we were playing with him all the time. He was/is still fat. To clarify, we only called him Chubbs. We never said he was disgusting or anything like that. We all had nicknames for eachother. Mine was BH (I have a big head). Personally, I'm very thankful for being called BH as a kid. It made me VERY aware of the fact that I do have a big head, and when other people tried to use that as an insult against me it didn't phase me at all. I actually had a really good response to it (one that I can't share on the board).

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

It's a nice little slippery slope we've set ourselves up here, not enough bullying from loved ones makes people weak, but too much bullying from peers leads to justifiable homicide.

Haha. That's a mighty fine leap. A little ribbing is alright. Long Term harassment is an entirely different matter. And no one is saying what happened at that school was justifiable. This kid deserves all the punishment that's headed his way.

My point is that we should make sure our children have the coping skills to deal with the **** they're going to deal with in schools. Now that's not to say they should have to deal with long-term harassment. There is an ocean of a difference.

[plastroncafe]

That's why it's called a slippery slope.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

That's why it's called a slippery slope.

Fair enough, I do think you have a point. What works with us might not work for everyone. I realize that. I just don't think the answer is coddling people. If they have a problem they are going to have to face it and learn to deal with it.

[plastroncafe]

I don't think this kid was coddled.
I think he was mistaken.
And given how our media and our culture portray romantic relationships, it's an easy mistake to make.

He thought he lived in a world where he was owed what he wanted, and couldn't handle the reality.

One of the reasons I really enjoy Avatar the Last Airbender is because there's an entire episode devoted to: Just because you love someone, that doesn't require they return that love.

In Legend of Korra they dealt with the fact that Love Isn't Enough. Relationships need more than love.

Most of our media doesn't have that message.
We get: If you wear her down, she'll say yes!
And video games where when you complete the task, you get the girl.

Heck, we've got people saying the ex-fiance of the Golden State Killer might have been to blame, because that sick f*ck used to cry her name out while raping people.

[TurtleWA]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Of course you say something. But if your options are A: "Easy on the Little Debbies, lard ass!" and B: "Hey, champ, you're weighing in a little heavy... that's not healthy, so let's see if we can't fix that." and you think A is acceptable...

Well, you're a terrible parent.

and even...
C: let the kids doctor decide to say something and make recommendations
D: as a parent model healthy eating habits like more vegetables and fruit and not so much junk in the house, less beer and cigarettes as a parent. Make it a family rule to treat you bodies in healthy ways and model it. The “do what I say not what I do” mentality just makes more work for you as a parent.
E: let your kid talk to you about school and practice what they would do when bullied or being rejected by peers. Maybe go on a walk for exercise and have this talk.
F: answers B through E

[Leo656]

plas actually makes a good point about the line between good-natured and well-intentioned kidding and actually bullying or picking on someone.

Personally, as a person who takes a lot of sh*t, I also give a lot of sh*t. Not like "mean", but if I'm close to someone we generally give each other a playful hard time, often to degrees that other people may not understand; to them, we may sound like we're saying awful, hurtful things, but between us it's just goofin', because we've established the boundaries already, and we're just kinda twisted people with a warped sense of humor.

That being said, communication is absolutely essential to ensure things aren't going too far. A girl I knew in high school was a really good friend of mine, part of our little "group"; she was just a friend, but to give you an idea, to this day I still carry a picture of her in my wallet, just because she gave it to me once upon a time and said "Here, keep it in your wallet." So I do. Anyways. She was really, really short. Like under 5' tall. And we ALL would tease her about it, to the point where it was just The Thing About Her Everyone Teased Her For. We all had "A Thing." Mine was my hair, or my height, this guy was Too Quiet, this other girl was Too Hyper, whatever, we just gave each other sh*t in a playful way like that because we hung out every day and it's what you do.

Anyway, so one day during a free period, a few of us started teasing her like usual, and maybe something else was going on, but she wasn't playing along like usual, with the comebacks or whatever. And usually, that just meant that the "joke" wasn't funny enough for a retort, so we'd "try harder". At one point when we started actually working on our project, she put her head down like she was going to take a nap. When the bell rang, she didn't respond. I figured she didn't hear it, so I tapped her gently on the shoulder and whispered to "wake her up". She sprang up, tears down her cheeks, punched me in the arm, cursed me out and stormed off.

ALL of us were like "........whaaaat?!" Because that had NEVER happened before. A little bit later we set aside some time to talk alone, and she apologized, but also explained that A. The teasing DID bug her more than she ever let on, and B. She got it constantly from people we didn't even know were doing it, like family and such. So MAYBE she was having a bad day for lots of reasons and it just bothered her more than usual, or maybe enough was finally enough, but either way, we talked it out and set up "New Rules". She kept saying it "really wasn't that big a deal" but I just said that I, personally, wasn't going to go there anymore if it was genuinely hurting her feelings. We still had lots of other stuff to give each other sh*t about.

Point being, we had the conversation, and once it became clear that it wasn't "Just goofin'", we stopped. Like yeah, words are just words and we should all "get tougher", and yeah, being short myself, for example, I personally don't feel it's a big deal, but I'm one person, other people feel different about it, and I respect that. If you're really just TRYING to get a reaction out of someone even if you know it genuinely upsets them, well, you're just being a dick at that point. If they don't wanna "play", don't force 'em.

Either way, people should really talk more. Like REALLY talk. My "group" used to "Hold court" at Denny's all night, and if anyone had a grievance we'd air it. Some of us would have previously been in fistfights or f*cked each others girlfriends, but here we are later on, f*cking around like, well, kids. That's how it was, and how it should be.

I feel like ultimately the fact that people don't communicate very well has a lot to do with the emotional problems of this generation coming up. Like, yes, we're more connected... but are we really "communicating"?
---------------------------

Meanwhile, the shooter's Dad sounds to be pulling the "Not MY Son, he's a misunderstood little kid" angle, from what I've read. Come ON, guy. More and more, this is all starting to come together. Tsk tsk.

[plastroncafe]

I've got family in the military who constantly tell me about the down right BLUE things their friends say with each other. And they're like...they'd probably make you angry to hear.

To which I say:
Why would I get offended about what other people say in their own safe spaces.

Now if they said some of that stuff to me, or rather at me, I'd likely get pissed. Not because of the words, but because they'd be assuming a level of connection we don't have.

They're not my friends. They're not my family. They don't get to talk to me like that, because when/if they reach a boundary...I don't know enough about them to know that they'll stop.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by TurtleWA

and even...
C: let the kids doctor decide to say something and make recommendations
D: as a parent model healthy eating habits like more vegetables and fruit and not so much junk in the house, less beer and cigarettes as a parent. Make it a family rule to treat you bodies in healthy ways and model it. The “do what I say not what I do” mentality just makes more work for you as a parent.
E: let your kid talk to you about school and practice what they would do when bullied or being rejected by peers. Maybe go on a walk for exercise and have this talk.
F: answers B through E

Are you an actual parent? You seem extremely sensible and likeminded.

And I give tons of sh!t to my friends and siblings. So much sh!t. There's a difference between being a peer and being a parent. You can't treat your child the way you treat your buddy, because your child is going to receive those words and take them to heart. Your buddy's not gonna be offended if you tell him, "Hey, nice manboobs, chubba-chubba!" Or if he is, he'll fire back, "Damn straight, Larry! Your pencil of a girl wishes she had my cleavage!"

But a kid is different. Any parent SHOULD be able to tell you so. But as today's generation of psychopathic attention-seeking shooters will show you, parents are failing.

[TurtleWA]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Are you an actual parent? You seem extremely sensible and likeminded.

Yeah I’m a parent. However I don’t think being a parent necessarily makes you know or not know about things.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

But a kid is different. Any parent SHOULD be able to tell you so. But as today's generation of psychopathic attention-seeking shooters will show you, parents are failing.

I think in many instances parents are set up to fail.
Ultimately how they raise their children, and what their children do, is their responsibility, but no one gets raised in a vacuum.

And what's that line from Bojack Horseman?
When you're wearing rose-tinted glasses, red-flags just look like flags?

Kids are going to learn things not at home.
That's how even Dan Savage's kid was against Gay Marriage initially.

I think this goes beyond just parental involvement.