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Old 07-08-2017, 08:39 PM   #481
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
I think Marvel will also redo Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus at some point; those two villains are too big to leave off the table.
Much as I'd like Ock to get that redo with the right guy (even if Spider-Man 2 was damn good with him), please not another Green Goblin.

I know Goblin is arguably the most prolific Spider-Man antagonist alongside Ock and Venom, but we've seen him in both film series. I'd rather they don't use him at all; if they did, the final film is the only time I'd feel it's worth it.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:40 PM   #482
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I would hope that they don't use Chameleon. The cool thing about the Chameleon is that he's the only guy who can do what he does, but Winter Soldier sort of shows us this tech exists already (remember Black Widow impersonating that World Council lady?). It may be for SHIELD use only, but it still makes him kinda less special. And you just know that, in their effort to keep everything connected, they'd just give Chameleon that SHIELD face thingy anyway.
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IDW took the OT straw and spun it into gold, while Platinum Dunes took the OT straw and spun it into manure.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:02 PM   #483
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Much as I'd like Ock to get that redo with the right guy (even if Spider-Man 2 was damn good with him), please not another Green Goblin.

I know Goblin is arguably the most prolific Spider-Man antagonist alongside Ock and Venom, but we've seen him in both film series. I'd rather they don't use him at all; if they did, the final film is the only time I'd feel it's worth it.
Goblin is like the Joker, the Shredder, Lex Luthor... heck, I'm not even a Spidey fan and I know that.

Don't blow the wad too early, but eventually, the MCU needs to do it's take on the Goblin.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:22 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
Goblin is like the Joker, the Shredder, Lex Luthor... heck, I'm not even a Spidey fan and I know that.

Don't blow the wad too early, but eventually, the MCU needs to do it's take on the Goblin.
Not necessarily. Spider-Man is unique. Penguin and Riddler may be iconic, but are not a triumvirate of evil that are near equals as co-archenemies. Same with The Shredder. As big as Krang is he is co-archnemesis with The Shredder even if they are partners because of The Shredder's personal destain for them as Krang views them as a constant thorns he has to prick. Norman Osborn is slightly above both Dr. Octopus and Eddie Brock as Venom, that is true, but unlike Penguin and Riddler they have earned the arch-nemesis title just like Norman Osborn has.They are able to effect Peter on a personal level that Krang could not to The Turtles that Shredder can or Penguin and Riddler could to Batman in the way Joker can.

That being said, I am tired of the Green Goblin and would prefer focus elsewhere. I do more than welcome a well done Dr. Octopus or Venom again considering they were not overdone across multiple films despite already appearing. I don't know if Molita's Doc Ock can be topped, but Venom needs another try where he is not forced, but a natural fit.
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Old 07-08-2017, 09:56 PM   #485
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Aww man, I'm divided on Green Goblin appearing again. He is such a great villain and I'd love to see him treated correctly but he feels so overused with him being in Spider-Man 1/3 and Amazing 2 that I feel like a break is needed.

What a waste really, Sony just couldn't wait and blows their load as soon as they can..

Spider-Man 3 didn't need 3 villains. I understand the need for Green Goblin II since they had been teasing him since the first movie but we could've waited another movie or if they didn't then move Venom to SM4 and just have the black suit storyline sans Venom. GG II was a very weak villain.

Then you have Amazing which didn't even feature Osborne besides his company, so you think they're aware of GG already being overused and that they'll handle him well and slowly build him up. Then Amazing 2 comes out and not only do they introduce both Norman and Harry but let you know that Norman became the Goblin basically and then Harry becomes him, all in one movie.. Not to mention this version of the Goblin is a Hulk rip-off. I guess at least they tired something different but the only good thing about Goblin appearing at all like this is that it gave us Gwen Stacy's death. ugh.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:19 AM   #486
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Great movie, although it did have its share of issues. I liked the amount of Ultimate Spiderman (comics) influence.

Spoiler:
I didn't like the weird changes to characters like Flash and "MJ". What's the point of calling them that if they're completely different characters? I don't mind a younger Aunt May, as she doesn't need to look like his grandmother when he's a high schooler, but the way they push the "hot aunt" angle gets annoying pretty fast. Sure she's attractive, but not so much we need to be constantly reminded of it.

No Uncle Ben or even any spider-sense were a surprise. Considering they're Spiderman staples I figured they would've at least gotten a mention.

The upgrades to his suit weren't as much as I thought they were going to be, but they were still completely unnecessary. I did like his interactions with the AI, though. They provided some entertaining scenes.

Toomes was a good villain. His post-credits scene added some closure to his story and he kinda redeemed himself a bit in not revealing Spiderman's secret identity. (Also, I just noticed that the villains in Spiderman films usually end up finding out he's Peter Parker. Lol, he's really bad at keeping his identity a secret.)
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Old 07-09-2017, 05:53 AM   #487
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I'm completely at a loss for words at the incompetence of the story team on that what. I mean, for ****'s sake, it hasn't even been 8 years since The Avengers in real time! I think the film is meant to take place in fall 2016, but... 2020? What idiot came up with that? Did someone just take a look at Iron Man's release date and think the prologue was a reference to that movie? Completely bizarre. I'm usually not a fan of studios changing movies for home video but that is one alteration that ought to happen.
They farked the timeline bad. Civil War just confirmed that Iron Man 1 was 8 years ago. How the hell did Avengers 1 happen that same year? It didn't! I can't believe that for 9 years the MCU has seen so many movies, shows, comics and shorts all make a cohesive, mostly contradiction-free timeline only to have it crapped on by one movie that should have been easy to place.

Furthermore, and this one's smaller, if Homecoming picks up "2 months later" in September... then that puts Civil War in July. Why was Peter in school taking algebra tests in July? Another blunder.

AOS/onscreen dates/WHIH shorts place Civil War in April 2016. All they had to do was say 5 months later.

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The actor has a lot of baby fat in his face, he could honestly pass for a 16-17 year old (which I guess he was in the movie, lol).
How are you so ****ing stupid?

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The "8 Years Later" card threw me for a loop. Someone on Reddit put together a revised MCU timeline that used that to set Avengers in 2009 or something. I guess it sort of makes sense, saying it would take 4 years for Tony to build all 40 some armors in IM3. Marvel really just needs to hire a team to just release and then maintain an official canon. Between the "8 Years Later" and
Spoiler:
Ego's alien goop that covered a small town in 2014 and was never investigated
in GotG2, this is becoming even more of a clusterf*ck than it already was.
Avengers has to be 2012 though. Cap being asleep for "almost 70 years", plus Iron Man 3 is the Christmas after Avengers, and the 13 years ago flashbacks are in 1999.

As for the Guardians 2 incident on Earth, it causes no problems. That was after Winter Soldier, so the Avengers were looking for Loki's staff at the time. There was also a big gap in AOS during 2014, so you can just assume SHIELD checked it out.

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He's afraid of heights! He can't webswing without breaking everything in sight!
Those blew my mind too. Like what? He didn't even care that he was wrecking everyone's property. I guess you can headcanon that he went back and helped them repair it, or asked Tony to send them money to fix it, but damn.

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Old 07-09-2017, 09:40 AM   #488
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Those blew my mind too. Like what? He didn't even care that he was wrecking everyone's property. I guess you can headcanon that he went back and helped them repair it, or asked Tony to send them money to fix it, but damn.
It's almost as if they ignored Spider-sense for the sole purpose of giving Tony Stark and his tech a bigger role in the film... hmm....

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(Also, I just noticed that the villains in Spiderman films usually end up finding out he's Peter Parker. Lol, he's really bad at keeping his identity a secret.)
This is something that only ever happens in the movies... just a cheap way of raising the stakes. Peter would sometimes go to ludicrous lengths in the comics to preserve his secret. To my knowledge, only Venom and Green Goblin ever knew for certain. Maybe Mindworm did too.
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IDW took the OT straw and spun it into gold, while Platinum Dunes took the OT straw and spun it into manure.
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Old 07-09-2017, 09:54 AM   #489
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Great movie, although it did have its share of issues. I liked the amount of Ultimate Spiderman (comics) influence.

Spoiler:
I didn't like the weird changes to characters like Flash and "MJ". What's the point of calling them that if they're completely different characters? I don't mind a younger Aunt May, as she doesn't need to look like his grandmother when he's a high schooler, but the way they push the "hot aunt" angle gets annoying pretty fast. Sure she's attractive, but not so much we need to be constantly reminded of it.

No Uncle Ben or even any spider-sense were a surprise. Considering they're Spiderman staples I figured they would've at least gotten a mention.

The upgrades to his suit weren't as much as I thought they were going to be, but they were still completely unnecessary. I did like his interactions with the AI, though. They provided some entertaining scenes.

Toomes was a good villain. His post-credits scene added some closure to his story and he kinda redeemed himself a bit in not revealing Spiderman's secret identity. (Also, I just noticed that the villains in Spiderman films usually end up finding out he's Peter Parker. Lol, he's really bad at keeping his identity a secret.)
In the MCU, there identities can't be kept secrets since everyone know who the Avengers are, and if I'm not mistaken, Spider-Man's identity became public during the Civil War story in the comics, and besides at the end of the movie
Spoiler:
Aunt May finds out that Peter is SpiderMan
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:40 AM   #490
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I wonder if after all the fan reaction Sony and Marvel will retcon the timeskip card to something else on the Blu-ray release.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:24 PM   #491
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I wonder if after all the fan reaction Sony and Marvel will retcon the timeskip card to something else on the Blu-ray release.
They'd have to redub one of Katon's lines too, where he says how he's been getting away with it for "8 years" without trouble. It suddenly becomes an expensive mistake to correct.
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IDW took the OT straw and spun it into gold, while Platinum Dunes took the OT straw and spun it into manure.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:31 PM   #492
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They'd have to redub one of Katon's lines too, where he says how he's been getting away with it for "8 years" without trouble. It suddenly becomes an expensive mistake to correct.
Well if you ignore the timestamps (both of them were erroneous, if you ask me), and have to live with the dialogue, then you can assume that when Vulture says "8 years and no problems from those costumed freaks at Avengers tower", he just means they haven't had any problems with superheroes in general until now.

So they never interfered with his legitimate business in the 4 years between "I Am Iron Man" and "Avengers Assemble", he hit a speed bump with Damage Control in 2012, then smooth sailing for his criminal endeavors for another 4 years until Spidey shows up.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:32 PM   #493
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Did he say exactly that? I recall him saying that he'd avoided the FBI for that long.
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IDW took the OT straw and spun it into gold, while Platinum Dunes took the OT straw and spun it into manure.
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Old 07-09-2017, 02:33 PM   #494
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I was paraphrasing, but only slightly. I'll try to dig the clip up.
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Old 07-09-2017, 04:53 PM   #495
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It's almost as if they ignored Spider-sense for the sole purpose of giving Tony Stark and his tech a bigger role in the film... hmm....

This is something that only ever happens in the movies... just a cheap way of raising the stakes. Peter would sometimes go to ludicrous lengths in the comics to preserve his secret. To my knowledge, only Venom and Green Goblin ever knew for certain. Maybe Mindworm did too.
Yes all three did. So did Gargan at one point, when he (briefly) had the Venom symbiote. That knowledge was erased when Peter made the deal with Mephisto. Logan, the New Avengers, Daredevil, and Black Cat also all knew, to name a few others.

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In the MCU, there identities can't be kept secrets since everyone know who the Avengers are, and if I'm not mistaken, Spider-Man's identity became public during the Civil War story in the comics, and besides at the end of the movie
Spoiler:
Aunt May finds out that Peter is SpiderMan
That scene was a (sort of) call back to the comic issue Revelations, when May did exactly that. This was before the Civil War storyline reveal. M-J also knew. In fact she was one of the FIRST to find out!
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:28 PM   #496
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I thought it was really good. Plot-wise, it felt more like a real movie than a lot of the more recent MCU films, although I do wonder if it would make any sense to someone who hasn't seen the Avengers or Iron Man. The action felt more grounded too; it never degenerated into people in fetish gear throwing special effects at each other.

There are a couple of other things that I've been thinking about...

Spoiler:
A lot of people are talking about the 8 years later thing... did they ever say when the movie took place, or is everyone assuming that it's 2017 because that's when it came out? Couldn't you just assume that it's 2020?

Some of the jokes were a little off-colour for a Spiderman movie. Outside of the Fantastic Four, Spiderman seems like the most kid friendly Marvel superhero, so what's with the f**k, porn, slavery, and bestiality jokes?

The Raimi era Green Goblin design catches a lot of grief for the tech armour interpretation of the source. Haven't they done pretty much the same thing with the Vulture? Why is one a problem and not the other?

Why are reviewers asserting that this is like a John Hughes movie? Have they ever seen a John Hughes movie, or are they just repeating things they've read in press releases? It isn't anything like a John Hughes movie.

Is Stark tech just straight-up magic now? Where do the retractable web wings go when they retract? Why does Tony Stark ever have to be inside the Iron Man suit at all when they can operate remotely and autonomously? Plus, I'm totally on the Vulture's side when it comes to Stark. How does he get the cleanup contract without a massive anti-trust suit? I guess the government was run by Hydra at that point, but that is a pretty obvious conflict of interest.
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Old 07-09-2017, 08:38 PM   #497
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so what's with the f**k, porn, slavery, and bestiality jokes?
... the what now?

Quote:
The Raimi era Green Goblin design catches a lot of grief for the tech armour interpretation of the source. Haven't they done pretty much the same thing with the Vulture? Why is one a problem and not the other?
I just ignore those fools because I think Green Goblin armor design is quite cool. Plus the actor is the best villain in the entire Spiderman film series! So convincing.

Vulture can come close next to Alfred Molina's Doc Ock.

Quote:
Why are reviewers asserting that this is like a John Hughes movie? Have they ever seen a John Hughes movie, or are they just repeating things they've read in press releases? It isn't anything like a John Hughes movie.
I don't see the relation, the press being stupid again I think.

Quote:
Is Stark tech just straight-up magic now? Where do the retractable web wings go when they retract? Why does Tony Stark ever have to be inside the Iron Man suit at all when they can operate remotely and autonomously? Plus, I'm totally on the Vulture's side when it comes to Stark. How does he get the cleanup contract without a massive anti-trust suit? I guess the government was run by Hydra at that point, but that is a pretty obvious conflict of interest.
[/SPOILER]
Ironman suit is magic anyway. No way can missiles, hovering propulsion and other fancy gadgets fit into that small spaces. Spiderman outfit is no different.

I see no problem here.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:07 AM   #498
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Ironman suit is magic anyway.
Or to put it in the MCU way, it's not magic, it's science you don't understand.

I wouldn't mind another take on Doc Ock, hopefully more villainous. He felt too much like a good guy/victim of circumstance in the last movie. Not ALL villains need to be redeemable.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:27 AM   #499
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Or to put it in the MCU way, it's not magic, it's science you don't understand..
Sounds like deus ex machina to me. You could just write any old nonsense and say the same thing. "I created a gizmo that rids humanity of its predisposition to anti-social behavior, and have thus engineered world peace. I call it the bulls**t plot device 5000 and it's totally scientific you guys!"
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Old 07-10-2017, 10:21 AM   #500
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Sounds like deus ex machina to me. You could just write any old nonsense and say the same thing.
Um, have you ever read a comic book? That's pretty much standard operating procedure, although it's done with varying levels of effectiveness.

It was Arthur C. Clarke who said that technology advanced enough would be indistinguishable from magic. You can read his three laws here
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