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Old 08-08-2020, 12:30 AM   #1
Wentos
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Andy Suriano's Eulogy For Rise of the TMNT

https://twitter.com/enjoy_rottmnt/st...17107429605376




I was never that big a fan of the show, but I respect the craft that went into it and it's a shame it never seemed to find its audience. I suspect Suriano is right when he says the show will be fondly remembered as a cult classic.
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Nick, you have to do two things:

- Release the Nick show on blu-ray
- Release the 4kids series in a complete series or season sets

Only then will we be satisfied.
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Old 08-08-2020, 02:05 AM   #2
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I can appreciate some of the things it was trying to do, at least the intentions were good for the family thing and the impact it tried to leave off on, even though I wish it had been deeper all along.

However... Personalities relatable to who? Most people have their longtime, possibly even lifelong, faves for good reason. You took my boy and turned him into someone I no longer recognized nor could relate to. If representation matters, then why were personality types like Leo (pre-2018 ) and I left as an unfilled vacancy. For me, this was the biggest error of the whole thing. Everything else aside, even if he wasn't ever going to be "the leader," if Leo had at least been recognizable I would have no doubt been a whole lot more on board with this series and I doubt I'm the only one, and not just over him. But clearly for too many it went too far. Moderation will always be a good thing.

I hope Nick/Viacom in the future will understand that Leo (and Donnie) doesn't need to be changed and forced to be "cool" (he always already was!) just to be made likeable by those people who did not care two cents about him in the last 36 years. (Or however long a viewer has been alive.)

But best of luck to them all in the future and whatever shows or whatnot they end up doing next.


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Old 08-08-2020, 02:23 AM   #3
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Just realized I posted this in the wrong forum :/

If a mod wants to move the thread I'd appreciate it, otherwise we can just let it ride
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Nick, you have to do two things:

- Release the Nick show on blu-ray
- Release the 4kids series in a complete series or season sets

Only then will we be satisfied.
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:18 AM   #4
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Ant Ward had me temp-banned from this forum because I said the show was lame.

........There is a chance I may have used stronger words than that. But regardless, that's what happened. Therefore, these cats can both jump in a lake and pretend they ain't cryin' as far as I'm concerned.

They're all about "diversity", alright. Just not Diversity Of Thought. Which is why the people who run the TMNT FB page can't delete the negative posts about this show fast enough and have been working overtime for two years trying to do so. Because Diversity of Color is good, but don't you dare have your own opinion and be able to articulate at length why you feel the way you do! "Like us or we'll spank you, boy!!!" That's awesome. That's how grown-ass men react to criticism.

I have a much more apt "Eulogy":


Next time don't insult and try to censor your audience. You might actually make a buck. OR, keep telling 'em what they're supposed to like and lose another hundred million. Y'know, whatever. Ain't my f*cking money or reputation on the line. Do whatever.

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Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
I can appreciate some of the things it was trying to do, at least the intentions were good for the family thing and the impact it tried to leave off on, even though I wish it had been deeper all along.

However... Personalities relatable to who? Most people have their longtime, possibly even lifelong, faves for good reason. You took my boy and turned him into someone I no longer recognized nor could relate to. If representation matters, then why were personality types like Leo (pre-2018 ) and I left as an unfilled vacancy. For me, this was the biggest error of the whole thing. Everything else aside, even if he wasn't ever going to be "the leader," if Leo had at least been recognizable I would have no doubt been a whole lot more on board with this series and I doubt I'm the only one, and not just over him. But clearly for too many it went too far. Moderation will always be a good thing.

I hope Nick/Viacom in the future will understand that Leo (and Donnie) doesn't need to be changed and forced to be "cool" (he always already was!) just to be made likeable by those people who did not care two cents about him in the last 36 years. (Or however long a viewer has been alive.)

But best of luck to them all in the future and whatever shows or whatnot they end up doing next.


Signed,
A fan who cares too much about these guys to not be rather opinionated as a result
The entire middle section of that guy's post, about "diversity" and "representation" and "being relatable", is merely a coded message about how they're already getting ready to spin the show's failure as, "People didn't give it a chance because April was black."

Mark my words, THAT is gonna be the Official Excuse. The body ain't even in the ground and they're getting ready to say the show flopped because everyone's a racist. Jesus Christ. How perfectly "2020".

Your criticisms are perfectly valid and well-spoken, but they don't hear that stuff. You're too old to care in the first place, so your opinion is invalid. Also, you're white, and the show's main character was black, so clearly, all of your criticism is coated with a thinly-veiled shade of Systemic Racism, so by default ALL of your criticism is invalid. Either way, they don't have to listen to you! You're Not Relevant!

See how much fun this is? Modern "Victim Culture" rules! Nobody ever has to admit to failure when they can wrap themselves up in buzzwords like "diversity" and "representation" and then just call you names if you don't agree with what they're selling!

But yeah, they're gonna say it's all because of Black April. Gross. They sh*t the bed and they're blaming it on the goddamn dog, and they don't even have a dog. F*cking typical.
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:39 AM   #5
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This "eulogy" sounds like a corporate nothing-speak. Like a person is trying to be genuine, but can not help himself, and reverts back to the weird modern newlang, what with mentioning "representation" and "diversity" every sentence.

I hope they won't push an angle that show had failed, because of "racists", but in the year 2020 it is very possible, sadly. Artistic intention doesn't matter, as long as you propagate "right" values and follow the party line of glorious communist democRAT party of America.
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:21 AM   #6
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Oh, they will. Mark it in stone, "Y'all just hated Black April cuz she's Black" is gonna be the company line on why the show in its entirety didn't take off.

Never mind that even most of the people who had no problem with her being black still thought she was a sh*t character.

Called this sh*t two years ago. She's their "shield".

She'll also be black in the next two-to-four versions of TMNT for the exact same reason. "Now we cannot be criticized in any way. Anyone who doesn't like what we do is simply a bigot." And they can keep making the same dumb mistakes while not getting the point of why they repeatedly fail. Because when you hide from criticism, you don't learn anything. When you spend all your time creating "shields" and making excuses, instead of listening to people when they tell you why they aren't happy, you don't learn anything.

Glad it's not MY money.
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:32 AM   #7
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:36 AM   #8
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Jesus Christ Andy, calm down
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:29 AM   #9
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Jesus christ this reads like some SJW/PC manifesto did Brie Larson write this or something?

Seriously Andy Suriano as the great Zoidberg once said.

"Your show is bad so you should feel bad"

glad your show got cancelled maybe we can get a real tmnt show that doesn't alienated the hardcore fanbase .
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:38 PM   #10
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Ant Ward had me temp-banned from this forum because I said the show was lame.

The entire middle section of that guy's post, about "diversity" and "representation" and "being relatable", is merely a coded message about how they're already getting ready to spin the show's failure as, "People didn't give it a chance because April was black."

Mark my words, THAT is gonna be the Official Excuse. The body ain't even in the ground and they're getting ready to say the show flopped because everyone's a racist. Jesus Christ. How perfectly "2020".
pretty much par for the course with leftist hollywood these days.

it wasn't cause april was black, it was cause the show was a randomized mess of crap.

I couldn't even make it past the first episode in one viewing. had to restart it multiple times.

and this from someone who at least enjoyed next mutation for what it tried to do.
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:51 PM   #11
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My wife likes a lotta dopey sh*t and generally thinks I'm a crab about most things. Even she had a total "puke face" after we watched the first episode. For once, she was relieved I hated something, because it meant I'd never ask her to watch it again. "What the f*ck was THAT?", she said.

She loves "Secret of the Ooze" and thinks "Ninja Rap" was hilarious, so it's not like she has a distaste for goofy sh*t. I just think this show was a bridge too far for even her.

It bears mentioning because it kinda shows how people don't fit neatly in a box when it comes to their TMNT opinions. It's not as simple as "You have no sense of humor", or "You just don't like change". People try to MAKE it about that... but it isn't that.
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Old 08-08-2020, 06:57 PM   #12
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Oh, they will. Mark it in stone, "Y'all just hated Black April cuz she's Black" is gonna be the company line on why the show in its entirety didn't take off.

Never mind that even most of the people who had no problem with her being black still thought she was a sh*t character.

Called this sh*t two years ago. She's their "shield".

She'll also be black in the next two-to-four versions of TMNT for the exact same reason. "Now we cannot be criticized in any way. Anyone who doesn't like what we do is simply a bigot." And they can keep making the same dumb mistakes while not getting the point of why they repeatedly fail. Because when you hide from criticism, you don't learn anything. When you spend all your time creating "shields" and making excuses, instead of listening to people when they tell you why they aren't happy, you don't learn anything.

Glad it's not MY money.
I don't know if there is a way to say this without sounding like some sort of racist, cause I'm not, but I'm always curious why black seems to be the go-to race when it comes to race-bending most of the time? Like if they wanted to (for whatever reason) make April POC cause reasons.... why didn't they make her Hispanic? Or Asian? Or Peruvian? I swear they could have made her trans but not black and someone would still complain about her not being black trans.

Like America has more races than just black and white. Every time I hear someone 'well why aren't there more black people in (show or movie)', I always say 'well cause there aren't. You hear me bitching why aren't there more Hispanics in (same show or movie).
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:17 PM   #13
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My guess?

Un originality....

The 'hot button issue'..

the 'majority of the minority'

take your pick of the three. what i'm more interested in is hollywood's hatred of red heads.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:46 PM   #14
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George Carlin had a terrific thesis about this, which I will paraphrase.

It's literally all about keeping people ignorant and divided, because ignorant, tribal people are easier to control and manipulate, and most of "government" is about dividing people into groups like "Us" and "Them" and then keeping them constantly at each others' throats so they won't notice how badly they're getting f*cked by the 1%.

It begins with the very terms "White People" and "Black People". There ARE no "White" or "Black" people, literally zero. All humans are a mixture of tan, pink, and brown in varying degrees, even albinos. They're not "White", they're just an extremely pale pink. But it's too hard to segregate people into opposing categories if we have too many boxes. Plus, tan, pink, and brown have things in common. They can be mixed and comingled. That goes contrary to what the people in power want. They don't want people coming together, because if they did, it would be curtains for the ruling class. Once people realize that the only things that divide us are Money and Status, NOT Race or Religion, well... then the jig is up.

"Black" and "White", though... they're polar opposites of each other. They can't come together in any meaningful way without losing everything that makes them what they are. They're on opposite sides of the fence, never to be mixed.

SO, the next time you wonder why people are called "Black People" and "White People", instead of "Pink and Brown" or whatever else, and why Black and White are the "default" while other races are generally left out of the conversation entirely... that's what it's really all about. The people "Up Top" want everything to literally be a Black vs. White issue so they can keep you angry, keep you at each others' throats, and keep you distracted while they keep stealing your money and your human rights. "Tan, Pink, Yellow and Beige" are not invited to be part of the conversation, because they muddy the water and complicate things too much.

There's more to it, but that was the gist of it. Makes perfect sense. It's just unfortunate that people are so easily manipulated in the first place.
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Old 08-10-2020, 04:14 AM   #15
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all the ideas in the show are good but i felt like they executed them poorly
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:05 PM   #16
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agreed. good god damn riddance. NEXT, please.
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Old 08-15-2020, 12:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
George Carlin had a terrific thesis about this, which I will paraphrase.

It's literally all about keeping people ignorant and divided, because ignorant, tribal people are easier to control and manipulate, and most of "government" is about dividing people into groups like "Us" and "Them" and then keeping them constantly at each others' throats so they won't notice how badly they're getting f*cked by the 1%.

It begins with the very terms "White People" and "Black People". There ARE no "White" or "Black" people, literally zero. All humans are a mixture of tan, pink, and brown in varying degrees, even albinos. They're not "White", they're just an extremely pale pink. But it's too hard to segregate people into opposing categories if we have too many boxes. Plus, tan, pink, and brown have things in common. They can be mixed and comingled. That goes contrary to what the people in power want. They don't want people coming together, because if they did, it would be curtains for the ruling class. Once people realize that the only things that divide us are Money and Status, NOT Race or Religion, well... then the jig is up.

"Black" and "White", though... they're polar opposites of each other. They can't come together in any meaningful way without losing everything that makes them what they are. They're on opposite sides of the fence, never to be mixed.

SO, the next time you wonder why people are called "Black People" and "White People", instead of "Pink and Brown" or whatever else, and why Black and White are the "default" while other races are generally left out of the conversation entirely... that's what it's really all about. The people "Up Top" want everything to literally be a Black vs. White issue so they can keep you angry, keep you at each others' throats, and keep you distracted while they keep stealing your money and your human rights. "Tan, Pink, Yellow and Beige" are not invited to be part of the conversation, because they muddy the water and complicate things too much.

There's more to it, but that was the gist of it. Makes perfect sense. It's just unfortunate that people are so easily manipulated in the first place.
Ironically we kinda have that nonsense here too. It's pretty much green or non-green whenever a horrible version of the Turtles is made in modern day. While everyone easily discards stuff like New Mutation and whatnot as 'well that was back then', every time we get a BayTurtles or a Rise, this forum violently explodes into a green vs non-green debate. With a side of plants.
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Old 08-15-2020, 02:13 PM   #18
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just out of irony, I went back , f ired up the projector, and put the pilot episode back on.

Everything wrong with this series is summed up in the first few minutes.

1-They go right over the bad guys making a bad deal to do a cannonball.
OK, I can get them being teenagers out on the town. Not caring about all this adult stuff. but, if that is the case, WHY do they have weapons they clearly don't know how to use?

2-Everyone is acting like Mikey. Even Don to a small extent. nothing he does goes right and it's more accidental than anything. Leo is cracking Jokes....mikey is still mikey. And even Splinter is about as lazy as Mikey ever was.

3- Splinter. why does he even have to be japanese in this? there seems to be no ninja connection. it's only there cause it's in the title 'ninja turtles'.
He's just a fat lazy drunk with milk substituted for booze.

4-the turtles clearly arn't trained. clearly have no real reason to stick together. their 'pop' isn't worth staying around on.

5-baron draxum. poor man's shredder. same M.O. different methods.
say what you will about Dregg, at least he had a space ship and tried a different tactic than shredder and krang to win. same goes for dragon lord.


This entire pilot feels like someone had a dart board of 'things we know about ninja turtles' and 'things we'd like to add for no reason' popped inthere. Mikey's Demon yo yo weapon being a prime odd example.

it's like the entire pilot has ADHD. it jumps from one place to the next with little reason.
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Old 08-15-2020, 02:58 PM   #19
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To put my own feelings as succinctly as possible: I disagreed strongly with Every Single Choice as far as creative, and the entire thing is more or less my Worst Case Scenario on what a TMNT project would ever be.

It's incredibly rare that there's not one single thing for me to like about anything, ever... but that's what happened. Usually, I can find SOMEthing.

"It's not as offensively bad as Thundercats Roar" is about as kind as I can be. I'm aware that other people can find things in it, but they're Them. Not one thing I like about TMNT just as a general "thing" exists in this, and what's there is all things I generally hate. It's partly "This isn't TMNT", and partly, "I genuinely cannot stand shows like this, period." Subject matter aside, I just plain hate this kind of show. Like seriously hate. They give me a headache.

If something else was running on TV as a parallel, I might not even have an opinion. But for 10 years now, to have NOTHING of TMNT that I can enjoy even a little bit? It's getting old. It's getting frustrating. I was annoyed after the Nicktoon and I was furious after the BayTurtles movies. This was Strike Three as far as Nickelodeon having chances to gain my trust. All I've ever seen from them, is proof that they only wanna do "silly."

They'd have to work hard to ever gain my trust or support after All This. That's really all I can say. I could write a "novel", but I won't.
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Old 08-15-2020, 09:54 PM   #20
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Well, to Nick's credit, they did let the Batman vs TMNT thing happen? Though it's pretty obvious it's a product of someone else doing something with them and Nick just saying "okay." If they'd do that more, that would be best.
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