Crossover ("Wanted: Bebop & Rocksteady") Arc Discussion Thread (WARNING SPOILERS!)

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Okay, Now its time to give my full thoughts on these episodes *cracks knuckles*. This is gonna be long....::

1. Firstly, I'd always wanna start with the positives. These episodes had alot going for them, but I think the best thing about it by far was the story. Unlike Turtles Forever and TransDimensional Turtles, the story of this crossover wasn't just fanservice but had an actual arc that changed some of the characters for the rest of the series (Bebop and Rocksteady are no longer villains by the end) so it didn't just feel like filler and/or fanfiction, something which was a nitpick I had with the other crossovers despite how much I love them. This was Bebop and Rocksteady's story, with the turtles on the side which is a nice change from the previous crossover because it avoids repeating the same plot again and gives us something new.

2. The interaction between the characters was a really nice touch. I was especially surprised by how well Kevin Micheal Richardson captured the spirit and personality of 80's Shredder. I think he is by far the best Shredder alternate, having an impression that sounds somewhat like a mix of Townsend Coleman and Jim Cummings. He interacted with Krang alot throughout the episode and I thought that was awesome, seeing them both interact in a way that was just like the 80s cartoon despite James Avery unfortunately not being here. I lost count of how many moments I laughed out loud at Shredder and Krang's antics.

3. The 80s Turtles personalities were pretty accurate as well, and even though they might've not been used to the Nick Universes' fighting style at first, the special doesn't go into the territory of making them idiots and morons like Turtles Forever did. The entire point was that they aren't bad and inherently flawed per se, but their fighting style and environment was very different to what is typical in the Nick universe, and yet despite that, they fully adapted half-way into the episode and were just as effective as their Nick counterparts because they were sincere and shared the common desire to do good as all versions of the Ninja Turtles have. It is especially well rounded considering 80s Shredder and Krang had the physical advantage (the indestructible technodrome destroying the city, a giant android body, rock soldiers etc.), yet the heroes managed to save the day since the 80s turtles were able to learn the fighting skills required due to their sincerity/goodness and Bebop and Rocksteady were able to put their own skills to good use due to them becoming good and sincere. 2k12 Mikey realizes this the most out of the turtles, as he knows the 80s turtles have potential even in the 2k12 universe due to their hearts being in the right place, but all the turtles come around to this realization of common brotherhood and adaptability at the end.

4. All the little extras were also really good. The references were a nice touch, such as the Chrome Dome shampoo, Leonardo references the end of Michelangalo's birthday, my favourite bo Joke and so much more. 80s Bebop and Rocksteady were awesome and a joy despite only appearing a little bit. Likewise, the 2D animation was very impresive, right down to the 4:3 aspect ratio and is the closest to the original cartoon that a FW crossover has ever been. The Foot soldiers were a great addition and I'm surprised how competent they were made, I mean, the guys were holding their own against the Earth Protection Force and even gave the 80s/2k12 turtles combined trouble. Little moments like the 80s Turtles meeting Chompy, Ice Cream Kitty all really helped the hour long special not just be a plot but also a plot with alot of character moments. Speaking of character moments, I'm repeating myself but I honestly think Bebop and Rocksteady had it the best in this episode. From being lost and without a purpose, to enjoying their new job as supervillains, to changing sides, I'm surprised a crossover of all episodes has this much character development.

In terms of negatives, I don't think there was anything wrong with the episodes that needed to be changed but we always wish for more no matter how good something is. Me personally, I would've liked more 2D animation, 80s Bebop and Rocksteady having more screentime, Mona Lisa appearing in the Mutanimals and having a funny joke with 80s Raph, Classic Rock soldiers appearing instead of the 2k12 ones and a teensy bit more music remixed from the 80s series but I'm just nitpicking at this point. The episode as it was, was great and I'm sure to be analyzing it for a long time, being the hardcore FW fanboy that I am.

10/10, no regrets.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Rocksteady destroys the technorome with one misssle launcher, that's far less strong?

I didn't see it get destroyed, just damaged. I assume it was sent to Dimension X later without the villains and then season 8 of the Original Toon began, with the technodrome stuck in a black hole. The red sky could've been due to dimensional disturbances from the crossovers.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I think that the Nick Multiverse FW turtles aren't really the ones from that show but rather a pastiche of the idea of the Fred Wolf turtles and it's tie-ins.

Heh, Looks like you have the opposite view from me. I see the FW turtles in these Nick crossovers as the actual ones while the ones from TF are the pastiche which I assume you think are the real ones.

[Darxide]

Anyone willing to share the links with me? I messaged Redworld but seeing as it's currently like 4:30 in the morning there, I'm sure he wont get back to me tonight.

Thanks!

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The face of pure murder.

[ranger_scout]

I watched the crossover last night. My work day was longer than usual, so I was pretty tired when I came home, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the special. Once again, it was so nice to hear those classic voices from my childhood. I last heard those actors doing it at a time when my life was surrounded by darkness and hearing them voice these beloved characters once more brought light when I really needed it. Plus, it's just so cool to hear them right now because I recently turned 30. Cam Clarke and Barry Gordon are still hilarious as the classic Rocksteady and Bebop. The 1987 turtles fighting style was out-of-date, yes. However, they were able to get better thanks to their counterparts. Kevin Michael Richardson did a very respectable job of recreating the 1987 Shredder after we lost James Avery. Pat Fraley is still flawless as ever. It really did look like the final battle was impossible to overcome for a moment. Also, the music video was fun.

[VaughnMichael]

I loved this special outside of the 80's turtles being made to look like huge wimps.
And having to be trained by the Nick TMNT.
Which makes me wonder if this causes the turtles to go into the Red Sky era of the old toon.
I laughed more in this special than probably all of the rest of the series combined.
I really wish that Fred Wolf Bebop and Rocksteady would have come to the Nick world and the Nick Bebop and Rocksteady would have come to the Fred Wold world.
One of my favorite things was the Chrome Dome shampoo bottle, that was fantastic.
Also I didn't see anyone else mention this but they had an old toon mess up with Donatello talking and it was Raphael.
The 4th wall stuff cracks me up so much more as an adult as well.
I did think it was odd that the Fred Wolf TMNT had no reaction to Mondo, Leatherhead, and Slash.
Over all though I had a lot of fun coming home from a hard day at work and watching this.
They totally should bring back the 80's cartoon because this special made me realize one thing and that's how much I missed it.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

When Shredder was drunk, he sounded like Mako's Splinter.

[JonesyKitty]

I'd also like the link if anyone is willing to send it to me I plan on buying the DVD but I'd like to watch it in the mean time. I saw some low quality clips on YouTube and I loved it so far!

[newfan]

LOL a drunk Shredder, wonder why they wrote that in.

[Krang316]

I have not watched the episodes yet but wondered if the FW Splinter has any screen time? It would be a shame if he did not.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Unfortunately he does not appear

[Redworld96]

Originally Posted by Darxide

Anyone willing to share the links with me? I messaged Redworld but seeing as it's currently like 4:30 in the morning there, I'm sure he wont get back to me tonight.

Thanks!

I have answered you this morning when I woke up, time zone differences stinks Btw I'm a woman

[Krang316]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Unfortunately he does not appear

That's a real missed opportunity, i would have loved to see some interaction between the current Turtles and the FW Splinter.

[matteso586]

From the posts, I was surprised to learn that Kevin Michael Richardson can do a very good impression of James Avery.

Did this crossover explain how the 1987 Turtles got the portal projector? Or reveal the outcome of their battle with Tiger Claw?

[NikitaZhukov]

Originally Posted by matteso586

Or reveal the outcome of their battle with Tiger Claw?

Well, they were shown in full health... That's pretty much it, didn't even mention TC through the whole thing.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Outside of having the original voice actors, the treatment of the OT turtles wasn't much better than Turtles Forever. I get that the Nick turtles are more "edgier" than their counterparts but this 3-parter made it seem like the FW turtles were useless and couldn't defeat anyone. The FW turtles did not need to be retrained to fight the Foot Soldiers or enemies they have beaten before. That makes no sense. And I get that the joke where FW Leonardo says that cutting someone would hurt was suppose to be self-deprecating but it just seemed silly considering he's been slicing and dicing robot versions of the Foot and cut them many times before. He even swung his sword at Shredder at times in the old cartoon.

I did like the FW turtle's reactions to Nick's April and Casey, with Leonardo commenting on Teen April wearing a jumpsuit.
I laughed real hard at Karai's reaction to the FW turtles.
For some reason, FW Raph seems to have an animosity towards their counterparts by calling them "posers", alot. But I do find it amusing.

It was okay but not as exciting as I thought it would be. Besides having the original voice actors, I'm having a hard time seeing how anyone could like this more than Turtles Forever.

[Leofan26]

So Nick's crossover treatment of 80s turtles is no different than the Turtles Forever treatment for them eh?

Did Nick Leo interact with 80s Leo more?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I don't understand why people think this was disrespectful to the 80s turtles, if anything it glorified them. This will be a mini rant but let me explain:

1. The 80s turtles were NEVER incompetent fighters before meeting the Nick turtles, in their show they were among the best as they took advantage of how their environment worked (e.g. trash cans that hit much harder, boxes which caused their enemies to fall, fire hydrants which could open with ease and send their enemies flying).

However, when they came into the Nick universe, they found that their old tactics were no longer effective in a world that operates differently. They got defeated, but they didn't act stupid about it. They wanted to learn and adapt so they were willing to put their egos aside and let their counterparts train them.

In the end, they were not able to cope with how the Nick universe works, but fully adapt to it, becoming just as effective as the Nick Turtles and even better fighters themselves since they proved they aren't just good in their own world. Its no different from if the Nick turtles would've struggled in the FW world but thats a story for another time.

When you think about it, this crossover and Turtles Forever took the opposite approaches when it came to poking fun at the 80s turtles. In Turtles Forever, the 80s turtles seemed to have no trouble succeeding with their fighting tactics in the 2k3 universe and Mikey even beat hun but their personalities were off point, doing things like not taking the most deadly of situations seriously or running away from battle.

This crossover on the other hand, nails their personalities perfectly (the 80s turtles did worry and take the situation seriously when their life/world was in danger and never ran away from battle like cowards) but showed their fighting style needed work in the Nick universe which they ultimately succeeeded at by the end.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I don't understand why people think this was disrespectful to the 80s turtles, if anything it glorified them. This will be a mini rant but let me explain:

1. The 80s turtles were NEVER incompetent fighters before meeting the Nick turtles, in their show they were among the best as they took advantage of how their environment worked (e.g. trash cans that hit much harder, boxes which caused their enemies to fall, fire hydrants which could open with ease and send their enemies flying).

However, when they came into the Nick universe, they found that their old tactics were no longer effective in a world that operates differently. They got defeated, but they didn't act stupid about it. They wanted to learn and adapt so they were willing to put their egos aside and let their counterparts train them.

In the end, they were not able to cope with how the Nick universe works, but fully adapt to it, becoming just as effective as the Nick Turtles and even better fighters themselves since they proved they aren't just good in their own world. Its no different from if the Nick turtles would've struggled in the FW world but thats a story for another time.

It iterated me that the 1987 Turtles had to be trained by another set. The Nick Turtles came afterwards so its like an oldest brother being trained to beat up a bully by a brother who is much younger. I would like to see the 1987 Turtles be the focus opposed to the guest to see how it would play off on the other side as you mention. Nick did better than Laird and co. but still not the way the 1987 Turtles were.

I agree about missed opportunities of the '87 Splinter interacting with the 2012 Turtles and the 1987 Turtles reacting to Leatherhead and Slash being on the 2012 Turtles side.

Did anyone catch that Bebop (1987) got the last line of the Nick cartoon? Who would have ever guessed that?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

It iterated me that the 1987 Turtles had to be trained by another set. The Nick Turtles came afterwards so its like an oldest brother being trained to beat up a bully by a brother who is much younger. I would like to see the 1987 Turtles be the focus opposed to the guest to see how it would play off on the other side as you mention. Nick did better than Laird and co. but still not the way the 1987 Turtles were.

More like if an older brother had a younger brother from another universe whose world is so different that the older brother struggles to fight at first and must be trained. And then he still succeeds.

Besides, the amount of time dedicated the 80s turtles "Bashing" is pretty small for the length of the 60 minute crossover. They start struggling at around 15 minutes when meeting Nick Bebop and Rocksteady, but at around 30 minutes in they fully adapt and are just as effective as the Nick versions. Thats only 1/4 of the total run time, even less if you count TransDimensional Turtles in.

After they adapt, its never again brought up negatively and the 80s turtles not only fight flawlessly alongside the Nick versions, but are also complimented by them. Nick Mikey even sees potential in them while they struggle, and I loved that part since hes my favourite of the Nick turtles.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I think Raphael should do the fourth wall jokes, not Leonardo.

But I never recall the turtles being afraid of using their weaopns. But hey, except Mirage, you can't have Leonardo and Raphael cut humans.