"Learning it from a book"

*neatoman* · 10-01-2017, 06:33 AM

So while becoming martial arts master from a book is kinda dumb it's not as offensive in retrospect, the most offensive aspect isn't so much that Splinter did it but rather that he did because he thought it was a good parenting guide. Sure, a book alone isn't going to make a master but it's at least going to get you started on the basics, that's what an educational book is for.

Alone this explaination for "How does a rat know martial arts?" isn't very satisfying, but I think it could be combined with the original explaination to justify the perceived flaw of "Rats can't learn from seeing someone train!". I think "He saw Hamato Yoshi train, then supplemented that with teachning tools like books", might be the the most satisfying compromise between keeping the original origin and alleviating the questionable logic.

That way you don't have introduce reincarnation if you don't like it, nor do have to jump through hoops explaining how the same exact event caused a man to transform into a rat and turtles into humanoids.

*ToTheNines* · 10-01-2017, 07:36 AM

Yeah, the book wasn't as offensive as the lack of Hamato Yoshi/actual reason for hating Shredder was.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 10-01-2017, 09:22 AM

You are NOT going to learn to be a martial arts master from a how to book. It's extremely stupid, but equally as stupid as the rat learning martial arts from watching a martial arts practitioner from his cage.

Either make Yoshi become splinter, have splinter be Yoshi's reincarnation, or have splinter mutate with Yoshi alive, learn martial arts from Yoshi, then shredder kills Yoshi

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 10-01-2017, 10:18 AM

A Splinter that starts as a rad should never be able to learn reading alone.

*ToTheNines* · 10-01-2017, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

or have splinter mutate with yoshi alive, learn martial arts from yoshi, then shredder kills yoshi

I've been saying this for years. SO much story potential in having Yoshi train Splinter and showing them waging a two-man war on the Foot for x years before he dies and Splinter happens upon the turtles.

I hope a future version does this.

*IndigoErth* · 10-01-2017, 12:26 PM

Had to go with "awful." As much as I'd gladly give it "the worst," there could have been a worse path, like, say, "I learned it in a vision/dream." Book method is just really really lame. (Though cutting Yoshi out is The Worst.)

I mean, at that point he probably can't even read in any language. (Or shouldn't be able to.) Hard to believe you're going to translate legit skills through a few basic diagram images.

Never was a big fan of him learning through mimicry either and prefer the Yoshi is Splinter route. But Yoshi knowing Splinter as a mutant would be an intersting take on it.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-01-2017, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I've been saying this for years. SO much story potential in having Yoshi train Splinter and showing them waging a two-man war on the Foot for x years before he dies and Splinter happens upon the turtles.

I hope a future version does this.

That's not bad, man.

*Prowler* · 10-01-2017, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's not bad, man.

Yeah, I too think it'd be interesting, but how would a small rat like Splinter be able to fight? Would he get mutated before the Turtles? If so how?

*neatoman* · 10-01-2017, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

You are NOT going to learn to be a martial arts master from a how to book. It's extremely stupid, but equally as to as the rat learning martial arts from watching a martial arts practitioner from his cage.

Either make Yoshi become splinter, have splinter be yoshi's reincarnation, or have splinter mutate with yoshi alive, learn martial arts from yoshi, then shredder kills yoshi

Honestly, I think the "Yoshi mutates into Splinter" thing seems to operate on convoluted logic that's not worth the effort, it's pretty much pointless in light of the reincarnation origin.

Wolfie65 · 05-09-2018, 01:32 PM

Well, there are things you can learn from books and there are things you can't learn from books.
What I find a little ....puzzling...isn't so much the learning, but the practicing.
To get good at anything, especially something intensely physical like martial arts, you have to DO it, and do it a LOT.
How did Splinter practice ?
Without getting noticed.

*IndigoErth* · 05-09-2018, 01:59 PM

Maybe it can be used as an explanation as to why the Turtles didn't do much of it in the second film. After events of the first film and the time between, they came to realize that dad is somewhat like those guys on YouTube who think they know anything, what they were taught may not quite be as legit or the proper ways as they once believed, and Splinter relies on rat traits as an asset that they can't make use of anyhow.

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 05-10-2018, 10:29 AM

The learned from a book origin was terrible, no matter how you look at it.

The funny part is, you could even take what was said right in the movie, and fix the origin. If you recall, Sachs told April a story about how a 9th century Japanese warlord poisoned the water supply, and a Japanese alchemist created the mutagen to cure the disease the poison caused. Well, in East Asian alchemy, the alchemist will often infuse some of his own ki/chi/essence into their elixir, to give it power. So, a thousand years later, when that elixir is used on four turtles and a rat, they grow into humanoids, gain human-level intelligence, and the rat dresses in a Japanese style and can read Japanese, and all five pick up martial arts easily from a book they found in a storm drain, as if they already knew martial arts. (alchemy in east Asia usually comes from Daoism, which also practices 'internal alchemy' -in other words, martial arts) Those traits the turtles and splinter probably came from the alchemist who infused his essence into the Mutagen.

Bam! Instant origin, based solely on what we see in the movie! Again all we would've needed was a line or two of dialogue in the film to confirm it! ><

(and no, a line from a nine year old April that 'the ooze came from space' doesn't hold up, that's just a little kid talking. And also no, Krang's ooze doesn't count either, that's purple and works differently.)

*IndigoErth* · 05-10-2018, 11:32 AM

Interesting idea. How sad is it that these movies contain so much that could be improved or easily explained and made to work with just a line or two? Just too complex for those writers I guess...

*Utrommaniac* · 05-10-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

(and no, a line from a nine year old April that 'the ooze came from space' doesn't hold up, that's just a little kid talking. And also no, Krang's ooze doesn't count either, that's purple and works differently.)

There...kind of is green space ooze but..

Spoiler:

Someone get him to an endocrinologist...or something

*Panda_Kahn_fan* · 05-11-2018, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

There...kind of is green space ooze but..

Spoiler:

Someone get him to an endocrinologist...or something

No, that's tentacle mucus, Krang even says so in the movie. There is no evidence the green mutagen in the first movie is connected to krang in any way.

View Poll Results: In retrospect, how bad was it?
Not bad at all.	1	2.56%
Not that bad.	5	12.82%
Somewhat bad.	4	10.26%
Just bad.	6	15.38%
Pretty bad.	5	12.82%
Really bad.	10	25.64%
Awful.	15	38.46%
The worst	14	35.90%
Might work with the alteration you suggested.	1	2.56%
Might work a different alteration.	0	0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-2017, 09:22 AM	#3
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	You are NOT going to learn to be a martial arts master from a how to book. It's extremely stupid, but equally as stupid as the rat learning martial arts from watching a martial arts practitioner from his cage. Either make Yoshi become splinter, have splinter be Yoshi's reincarnation, or have splinter mutate with Yoshi alive, learn martial arts from Yoshi, then shredder kills Yoshi __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket. Last edited by Panda_Kahn_fan; 11-03-2017 at 10:39 PM.

10-01-2017, 10:18 AM	#4
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,155	Reading A Splinter that starts as a rad should never be able to learn reading alone.

10-01-2017, 12:26 PM	#6
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,237	Had to go with "awful." As much as I'd gladly give it "the worst," there could have been a worse path, like, say, "I learned it in a vision/dream." Book method is just really really lame. (Though cutting Yoshi out is The Worst.) I mean, at that point he probably can't even read in any language. (Or shouldn't be able to.) Hard to believe you're going to translate legit skills through a few basic diagram images. Never was a big fan of him learning through mimicry either and prefer the Yoshi is Splinter route. But Yoshi knowing Splinter as a mutant would be an intersting take on it. Last edited by IndigoErth; 10-01-2017 at 12:32 PM.

05-10-2018, 10:29 AM	#12
Panda_Kahn_fan Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,715	The learned from a book origin was terrible, no matter how you look at it. The funny part is, you could even take what was said right in the movie, and fix the origin. If you recall, Sachs told April a story about how a 9th century Japanese warlord poisoned the water supply, and a Japanese alchemist created the mutagen to cure the disease the poison caused. Well, in East Asian alchemy, the alchemist will often infuse some of his own ki/chi/essence into their elixir, to give it power. So, a thousand years later, when that elixir is used on four turtles and a rat, they grow into humanoids, gain human-level intelligence, and the rat dresses in a Japanese style and can read Japanese, and all five pick up martial arts easily from a book they found in a storm drain, as if they already knew martial arts. (alchemy in east Asia usually comes from Daoism, which also practices 'internal alchemy' -in other words, martial arts) Those traits the turtles and splinter probably came from the alchemist who infused his essence into the Mutagen. Bam! Instant origin, based solely on what we see in the movie! Again all we would've needed was a line or two of dialogue in the film to confirm it! >< (and no, a line from a nine year old April that 'the ooze came from space' doesn't hold up, that's just a little kid talking. And also no, Krang's ooze doesn't count either, that's purple and works differently.) __________________ My TMNT fanfic: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1266176...n-a-Half-Shell IDW is the best version of TMNT If they make a TMNT reboot movie retelling the shredder battle/origin, I won't buy a ticket.

10-01-2017, 07:36 AM	#2
ToTheNines [sic] Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,098	Yeah, the book wasn't as offensive as the lack of Hamato Yoshi/actual reason for hating Shredder was.

05-09-2018, 01:32 PM	#10
Wolfie65 Foot Soldier Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 144	Well, there are things you can learn from books and there are things you can't learn from books. What I find a little ....puzzling...isn't so much the learning, but the practicing. To get good at anything, especially something intensely physical like martial arts, you have to DO it, and do it a LOT. How did Splinter practice ? Without getting noticed.

05-09-2018, 01:59 PM	#11
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,237	Maybe it can be used as an explanation as to why the Turtles didn't do much of it in the second film. After events of the first film and the time between, they came to realize that dad is somewhat like those guys on YouTube who think they know anything, what they were taught may not quite be as legit or the proper ways as they once believed, and Splinter relies on rat traits as an asset that they can't make use of anyhow.

05-10-2018, 11:32 AM	#13
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,237	Interesting idea. How sad is it that these movies contain so much that could be improved or easily explained and made to work with just a line or two? Just too complex for those writers I guess...