The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?)

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Found a minor thing that could use fixing in the Volume 4 gap: "Mere Appendix" should be switched with "Reflections". At the end of "Reflections" the Jones family meets the turtles up north, this makes it fit well right after "Rocks". Then "Mere Appendix" fits the space theme of the two Don stories.

Good call. Made the swap.

[ToTheNines]

There's definitely a weather discrepancy in the "Exile to Northampton" era.

You have the "Challenges" stories at the end, but "Origin" is stated to take place on a warm spring day. And in "I, Monster" the RK says it's getting too cold to take the river route, so it's getting closer to winter by that point.

Also, if you take a look at the time that "True Stories" spans (January 15th-May 1st) I think "The Unmentionables" works better at the end of that era.

[ToTheNines]

I found a petty little glitch that I don't know what to do with.

"The Bait" has Splinter back in the city for the first time since before City at War, and yet he's absent from all of The Gang Wars. Shadow is younger in "The Bait" than she is in Volume 2, but she's also quite young in The Gang wars.

Obvious answers are Splinter went back to MA and Shadow was just messed up by differing artists/writers, but I figured you might have something better.

[ToTheNines]

One more little one. In "The Quick and The Dead", Splinter says "Sunflower seeds... after all this time, could it be?" refering to "Seeds of Destruction". Him saying after all this time makes me think this might go a bit later in the timeline.

[Chris]

Can't believe I missed that when I read that issue! Good call!

[funatic]

Possible error: you placed the most recent issue of Tales (Heroes in a Half Cell) after TMNT v4 #11 - this works as far as plot (April had the nano-turtles fighting in her "not so long ago"), but not so much for hairstyle... as April's hair jumps from bald to long, to bald again in v4 issue #12. Thus, I'd place it in that horrible grey area of the "not too distant future." Just my 2 cents.

[ToTheNines]

Wig. Or is it Whig?

[John Pannozzi]

You know, years ago, there was a site that had its own Mirage universe timeline, and thanks to the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, you can view it here.

So, Dr. Spengler, it'd be neat if you modified your timeline just a little to macth to this older timeline where it'd be convenient.

[DrSpengler]

Okay, sorry for slacking off on this. I just needed to set aside some time where I could pull out my collection and double check all these issues.

Here we go...

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

There's definitely a weather discrepancy in the "Exile to Northampton" era.

You have the "Challenges" stories at the end, but "Origin" is stated to take place on a warm spring day. And in "I, Monster" the RK says it's getting too cold to take the river route, so it's getting closer to winter by that point.

Also, if you take a look at the time that "True Stories" spans (January 15th-May 1st) I think "The Unmentionables" works better at the end of that era.

Indeed. I moved the Challenges stories up to after "True Stories" and the two stories that take place concurrently with that one. That would put "Origins" in May, which technically isn't Spring, but it's the best we can do since the "Exile" era only covers from December to December.

I moved "The Umentionables" and "Casey Jones Private Eye" down to the bottom of the era, near December.

Made proper notations about the seasonal discrepencies in the Notes section of the timeline.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I found a petty little glitch that I don't know what to do with.

"The Bait" has Splinter back in the city for the first time since before City at War, and yet he's absent from all of The Gang Wars. Shadow is younger in "The Bait" than she is in Volume 2, but she's also quite young in The Gang wars.

Obvious answers are Splinter went back to MA and Shadow was just messed up by differing artists/writers, but I figured you might have something better.

I attributed that to differing artist renderings of Shadow, honestly. About all that can be done with it, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

One more little one. In "The Quick and The Dead", Splinter says "Sunflower seeds... after all this time, could it be?" refering to "Seeds of Destruction". Him saying after all this time makes me think this might go a bit later in the timeline.

Since he said "after all this time" as opposed to "after all these years", I chose to move "The Quick and the Dead" down toward the end of the "Return to New York" era (whilst keeping "Seeds of Destruction" up near the beginning of that era).

A lot of adventures take place between the two stories and I didn't want them to be *too* far away from each other, as the female Foot Mystic in "The Quick and the Dead" seems to be behaving in a manner as if her current and previous attacks on Splinter weren't *that* far apart.

Looking at all the adventures between the two stories, I think a sufficient amount of time has passed between the two to facilitate Splinter's dialogue but without putting *years* between the Foot Mystic's two attacks.

Originally Posted by funatic

Possible error: you placed the most recent issue of Tales (Heroes in a Half Cell) after TMNT v4 #11 - this works as far as plot (April had the nano-turtles fighting in her "not so long ago"), but not so much for hairstyle... as April's hair jumps from bald to long, to bald again in v4 issue #12. Thus, I'd place it in that horrible grey area of the "not too distant future." Just my 2 cents.

I remarked on that in the Turtle Tips section of my review for the issue. Either it takes place "shortly after" Volume 4, or blad April is wearing a wig that we never see her in again.

I really don't like putting stories in a "shortly after" Volume 4 era because we have no idea how that volume will end yet. So I placed it where it is with the stipulation that she's either wearing a wig or it's some time later.

If Volume 4 is ever finished, then we'll know for sure where it fits.

Originally Posted by John Pannozzi

You know, years ago, there was a site that had its own Mirage universe timeline, and thanks to the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, you can view it here.

So, Dr. Spengler, it'd be neat if you modified your timeline just a little to macth to this older timeline where it'd be convenient.

I can see that he did a lot of work on that timeline and I'm very impressed. However, I don't think I need to modify my timeline just to match his if it isn't necessary.

He did a lot of work, and I respect that, but I take some exceptions with his approach. He writes a lot of... "fan fiction" trying to "fix" continuity errors or tie together unrelated stories to suit his timeline rather than writing a timeline that suits the stories as they were originally written.

I don't roll that way, I'm afraid.

Continuity errors exist and cannot escaped. I'll arrange my timeline to avoid these errors, but only where it doesn't rely on "fixing" the stories on my end. If a story says it takes place inbetween two issues even though it is full of sequence errors, I'll put it there and make the proper notations pointing out the continuity errors for the benefit of the readers.

The contents of the stories and the author intents supercede any opinion I may have, and I certainly don't want to bend of backward crafting "fanfiction" to alter the original nature of the material.

Creating my own "fanfiction" to alter the original stories is very disengenuous and would injure the integrity of the entire project.


I believe my timeline is pretty comprehensive and accurate as it is. It has been fact-checked numerous times not only by myself and Tristan Jones (who had planned to use it for an official Mirage publication; the unpublished Mirage Universe Sourcebook), but by over a dozen other hardcore Turtles fans.

I'll continue making corrections of any discrepencies that people notice, but I believe the major organizing has been accurately completed and I'm confident in the quality of my work.

Thanks for pointing that timeline out to me, though. Although we took two very different approaches to the work, I can see he put a lot of effort into his timeline. But I think our approaches are very different and our work should remain independant of one another's. If you notice any glaring errors in my timeline that are not present in his, and if they haven't been fixed by "fanfiction" on his part, then please bring it to my attention and I'll research the discrepency.

[Ninjinister]

One thing I must take quarrel with is that this other timeline seems to peg volume 4 as occurring in 2009. Not only is this bizarrely illogical by the fact that it is assumed to have been taking place in the current year, but one of the early cements it by referring to the 9/11 attacks as having taken place (in relevance to the story), "last September".

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

That would put "Origins" in May, which technically isn't Spring

Isn't May considered spring in the U.S.? Here it is.

Jan-Feb: Winter
Mar-May: Spring
Jun-Aug: Summer
Sept-Nov: Fall
Dec: Winter

How weird that something I just took for granted is totally different elsewhere o.o Or maybe not, I dunno, I'm too tired for this...

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

Isn't May considered spring in the U.S.? Here it is.

Jan-Feb: Winter
Mar-May: Spring
Jun-Aug: Summer
Sept-Nov: Fall
Dec: Winter

How weird that something I just took for granted is totally different elsewhere o.o Or maybe not, I dunno, I'm too tired for this...

Yeah, that was me being stupid. Summer begins in June during the solstice.

My brain left me high and dry for a minute there. Do'h.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

Isn't May considered spring in the U.S.? Here it is.

Jan-Feb: Winter
Mar-May: Spring
Jun-Aug: Summer
Sept-Nov: Fall
Dec: Winter

How weird that something I just took for granted is totally different elsewhere o.o Or maybe not, I dunno, I'm too tired for this...

I think it differs much in the USA betweheen where you are. It's the same in Sweden, where Northland still has much winter between October-March, and Scania's more like autumn even all winter long.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by J 1982

and Scania's more like autumn even all winter long.

Well... Not this past winter, but yeah We got all the snow we didn't get the year before

[wilddiverse]

This is an awesome thing to behold and very helpful resource as I try to determine what TMNT issues I still need to track down.

[DrSpengler]

Thanks!

I'm glad people are still finding it useful.

[Venom]

Hell it'll be useful for YEARS, Spengs! Every major TMNT hub/comic forum should have a link to your timeline.

With the influx of new fans, the ones that make their way here and discover the comics will find the timeline and be able to make sense out of the Turtles' wild ass chronology.

[CyberCubed]

In the new #31 of Vol. 4, April has a full head of hair again. Does that makes the Tales issue where the Turtles fight Robin's cancer more apparent that it likely takes place shortly after Volume 4 now? After April meets up with the guys again and Raph/Don return to normal?

Also, some stuff on your site is a little outdated now, saying, "Laird had deemed this non-canon," does that really matter anymore? Its pretty obvious at this point that PL's timeline will never see the light of day and he sold off his rights.

I don't see why Image is still marked off as different than the rest of the timeline anymore, as well as those other Vol. 1 issues here and there.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

In the new #31 of Vol. 4, April has a full head of hair again. Does that makes the Tales issue where the Turtles fight Robin's cancer more apparent that it likely takes place shortly after Volume 4 now? After April meets up with the guys again and Raph/Don return to normal?

It definately seems the likely scenerio, now. I may have to stick it over in "The Future" era at the very beginning, though, since it would technically qualify as a "future" story since Vol. 4 hasn't caught up yet.

And thanks for updating the thread to remind me to add #31 to the timeline. I would've completely forgotten.

Also, some stuff on your site is a little outdated now, saying, "Laird had deemed this non-canon," does that really matter anymore? Its pretty obvious at this point that PL's timeline will never see the light of day and he sold off his rights.

I don't see why Image is still marked off as different than the rest of the timeline anymore, as well as those other Vol. 1 issues here and there.

Though Laird sold the propety, he was still the last word on the subject of canon or at least what he considers so. Until some editor at a Viacom licensee comes along and says otherwise, his opinion is the "most recent" information we'll have.

Regardless of that, though, it isn't as though I've removed Vol. 3 from the chronology simply because Laird doesn't approve of it. The issues are still there, merely color-coded to reflect the opinion of one man who happens to be co-creator of the franchise.

The chronology is still intact, merely color-coded to be more infomative.

When the Vol. 3 conclusion material is released, I intent to add that to the chronology too, but again, color-coded to indicate that it is an unofficial publication albeit approved of and contributed to by series creators. The issues will be included, just color-coded and given proper notation at the bottom of the article.

[CyberCubed]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, Tales #69 (the one with adult Shadow) doesn't seem to be listed under, "The Future" section of the timeline.