Should Tang Shen Be Reincarnated, Too?

[chrisdude]

Tang Shen will be an elder version of Venus.

Mother Turtle.

Her magic powers will save the day.

[FoxZerro]

Originally Posted by Lampy

i don't think you understand what i meant. i was talking about the "SEE ___, HE GETS IT!" line that was used in the "line in the sand" thread. i used it to say jester gets what i was talking about... then old hob countered with someone else "SEE... he gets it?!".

nothing really about what you're referring to. sorry... just thought it was funny.

Misinterpreted it my bad. Still I'm happy that other people see the death of Tang Shen as a serious driving point behind the IDW Turtles and I'm not the only one.

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

This is the second time the claim has been made. History has proven that this is not the case, as various incarnations of the story have explicitly omitted her without affecting the story. Try to do that with Batman or Spider-Man (where even incarnations that don't explicitly mention their deaths operate under the assumption that they happened), and you end up with drastically different characters; the same is not true here.

The difference being that in this incarnation of the Turtles story Tang Shen has been established as a part of what drives the group. Splinter clearly remembers what happened and what he promised her and how that promise cost he and their children their lives. Leonardo also has been having vague memories come to him as shown in his micro.

Keep stating your point as much as you want about Tang Shen's death not being necessary to drive the story, but the fact is that in this world it happened and has a lasting effect that would be tarnished if it were revealed that she were reincarnated and alive.

[Lampy]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

Misinterpreted it my bad. Still I'm happy that other people see the death of Tang Shen as a serious driving point behind the IDW Turtles and I'm not the only one.

The difference being that in this incarnation of the Turtles story Tang Shen has been established as a part of what drives the group. Splinter clearly remembers what happened and what he promised her and how that promise cost he and their children their lives. Leonardo also has been having vague memories come to him as shown in his micro.

Keep stating your point as much as you want about Tang Shen's death not being necessary to drive the story, but the fact is that in this world it happened and has a lasting effect that would be tarnished if it were revealed that she were reincarnated and alive.

it's all good dude! i agree with you on this. Tang Shen plays a more essential role IN THIS PARTICULAR incarnation. i think this is the biggest role she's ever played in all the incarnations. i like that she has such a heavy influence in the way splinter behaves. if it weren't for her... in this universe... the turtles would not exist. that alone shows her thread in this particular web of events. cut her out... and everything falls apart. all you'll get is saki and yoshi duking it out in feudal japan. and i'm pretty sure... had it not been for tang shen... yoshi would've died sooner (probably stormed the foot headquarters alone in his rage).... rather than flee with his kids. had it not been for that promise to her... yoshi's sons would have been killed sooner and eventually not have been reincarnated... thus no Turtles. just splinter... maybe. but tang shen's actions here influence the Turtles and Splinter in a much deeper level. in that choosing to flee over vengeance allowed yoshi to reevaluate his motives and behavior.

many can claim that the OT did not incorporate Tang Shen... and for that universe it worked. but different universe... different rules... different outcomes. Maybe the phrase should be reworded: "IDW Tang Shen is the IDW TMNT equivalent to Uncle Ben and Martha/Thomas Wayne."

[FoxZerro]

Originally Posted by Lampy

many can claim that the OT did not incorporate Tang Shen... and for that universe it worked. but different universe... different rules... different outcomes. Maybe the phrase should be reworded: "IDW Tang Shen is the IDW TMNT equivalent to Uncle Ben and Martha/Thomas Wayne."

Well said man. I'm not sure why we are dictating that something that worked in the OT should influence events here at all anyway

[Lampy]

Originally Posted by FoxZerro

Well said man. I'm not sure why we are dictating that something that worked in the OT should influence events here at all anyway

i think naysayers of this statement are thinking of TMNT as a whole... as a franchise. and in most incarnations... the statement is true. but what makes this statement so easy to shoot down is that the most (arguably) famous incarnation of the franchise does not include a Tang Shen.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Lampy

i think naysayers of this statement are thinking of TMNT as a whole... as a franchise. and in most incarnations... the statement is true. but what makes this statement so easy to shoot down is that the most (arguably) famous incarnation of the franchise does not include a Tang Shen.

No argument about it. The Fred Wolf cartoon is easily the most popular and famous aspect of TMNT. Perhaps not most critically acclaimed, but there's no doubt which franchise put TMNT on the map as a global phenomenon.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

No argument about it. The Fred Wolf cartoon is easily the most popular and famous aspect of TMNT. Perhaps not most critically acclaimed, but there's no doubt which franchise put TMNT on the map as a global phenomenon.

People always say that, but I strongly disagree. I feel like the movie trilogy is the most popular.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

People always say that, but I strongly disagree. I feel like the movie trilogy is the most popular.

I think it's possible, but with the crazy amounts of merchandise (t-shirts, toys, video games, etc.) that are tied in with the cartoon, heck even the movies tie back to it, I'd still argue that Fred Wolf is what most people associate TMNT with. I guess they all tie into each other so much that it becomes a little less clear cut, but the cartoon is definitely what started it all, which is where the argument comes from.

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

I think it's possible, but with the crazy amounts of merchandise (t-shirts, toys, video games, etc.) that are tied in with the cartoon, heck even the movies tie back to it, I'd still argue that Fred Wolf is what most people associate TMNT with. I guess they all tie into each other so much that it becomes a little less clear cut, but the cartoon is definitely what started it all, which is where the argument comes from.

Maybe it's rolling. Young adults are fond of the cartoon, but kids today probably don't know it all, because they just aren't anywhere to be seen. But at least some kids know the movies. They don't disappear as easily as an off-air show.

It'd be cool to talk to some kids who were introduced to TMNT by the 4kids show...

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Maybe it's rolling. Young adults are fond of the cartoon, but kids today probably don't know it all, because they just aren't anywhere to be seen. But at least some kids know the movies. They don't disappear as easily as an off-air show.

It'd be cool to talk to some kids who were introduced to TMNT by the 4kids show...

That's very true regarding the movies having more staying power in the public eye... I guess you could say the newer generations are more likely exposed to TMNT through the newest cartoon/toy versions or the old movies as opposed to Fred Wolf, but I think in terms of sheer numbers, the cartoon is still where they are known, they've just all grown up now. Probably why TMNT and other 80's properties like Thundercats and Transformers are associated with older fans now. Any TMNT shirt you see worn by anyone these days is from there, albeit as a bit of nostalgia.

Boy, this thread that originally derailed a different thread has been officially derailed itself! To contribute to the actual topic, I think the cartoon is why I would definitely say that the argument that Tang Shen is TMNT's Uncle Ben is a bit overstated. The turtles are not defined by her death, they are indirectly created by it. I guess you could say Tang Shen is more in line with the radioactive spider that bit Peter Parker. They're both important, but I don't think it necessarily changes the turtles' core characters if something were to be changed. They are just there to give them their "powers" in their origin stories. Arguably, even the spider is more important than Tang Shen.

Tang Shen was just there to give Yoshi & Saki an excuse (from the writer's standpoint) to feud and thus create the turtles' pathway to ninjitsu, but Uncle Ben gives Spider-man a reason for his actions and beliefs. If Tang Shen comes back, the turtles won't stop knowing ninjitsu, but if Uncle Ben were to come back, the lesson and the consequences of Peter Parker's actions learned would be lessened. I'm not saying I want her to come back, I'm just throwing my two cents on her importance to the turtles' origin. Splinter is definitely TMNT's Uncle Ben. The turtles would not be who they are, as characters or ninjas, without him.

[Archon_Turtle]

Tang Shen is Old Hob!

[Lampy]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

That's very true regarding the movies having more staying power in the public eye... I guess you could say the newer generations are more likely exposed to TMNT through the newest cartoon/toy versions or the old movies as opposed to Fred Wolf, but I think in terms of sheer numbers, the cartoon is still where they are known, they've just all grown up now. Probably why TMNT and other 80's properties like Thundercats and Transformers are associated with older fans now. Any TMNT shirt you see worn by anyone these days is from there, albeit as a bit of nostalgia.

Boy, this thread that originally derailed a different thread has been officially derailed itself! To contribute to the actual topic, I think the cartoon is why I would definitely say that the argument that Tang Shen is TMNT's Uncle Ben is a bit overstated. The turtles are not defined by her death, they are indirectly created by it. I guess you could say Tang Shen is more in line with the radioactive spider that bit Peter Parker. They're both important, but I don't think it necessarily changes the turtles' core characters if something were to be changed. They are just there to give them their "powers" in their origin stories. Arguably, even the spider is more important than Tang Shen.

Tang Shen was just there to give Yoshi & Saki an excuse (from the writer's standpoint) to feud and thus create the turtles' pathway to ninjitsu, but Uncle Ben gives Spider-man a reason for his actions and beliefs. If Tang Shen comes back, the turtles won't stop knowing ninjitsu, but if Uncle Ben were to come back, the lesson and the consequences of Peter Parker's actions learned would be lessened. I'm not saying I want her to come back, I'm just throwing my two cents on her importance to the turtles' origin. Splinter is definitely TMNT's Uncle Ben. The turtles would not be who they are, as characters or ninjas, without him.

yea... we Turtles fans get sidetracked a lot. attention span of a turtle? hah!
but interesting point of view matches... not sure i agree with it... but very interesting. i've never thought of it like that. the radioactive spider never crossed my mind. if you're right... and doing by your judgment on the subject alone... if tang shen came back and one character's actions were to change... it'd be splinter. so in a sense... by what you stated up here... Tang Shen is Splinter's Uncle Ben... not the Turtles. Should she be reincarnated... the one person who'd be affected the most would indeed be splinter and as a result the turtles follow suit. interesting 2 cents, matches.