[Suggestion] Should the non-TMNT sections of the forums be closed down?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Close them down? When we all get along so well?

[plastroncafe]

Right?
Like limiting the places where we disagree is going to keep us from disagreeing.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

There are a multitude of ways to do that that don't implicate yourself as holding transphobic views.

So expressing the opinion that Lois Lane shouldn't be trans is hateful and "transphobic", but then you calling the people who disagree bastards and LeonardoTheBest constantly raving against other members by personal attacks is A-ok?

I mean, I know not everyone will agree on everything, but this is just crazy.

[plastroncafe]

The Latin line is a quote from a book and now Emmy award-winning television series.

I posted it because someone new/quiet on the forums posted something and was Dogpiled because of it.
And I wanted to let them know that they were welcome regardless of the Dogpile.

Now, from where I'm standing if you weren't advertently trying to grind them down then you aren't one of the stated bastards.
So there's no reason to be offended.

I think there's a way to express an opinion that doesn't turn your opinion into an all-knowing value judgment.
It takes a certain level of finesse, a level of finesse that I myself am also working on.

It's the difference between having a contrary opinion and being a s#itposter.

For example:
This movie didn't work for me because of these reasons.

Vs.

This movie sucks and anyone who likes it is too stupid to realize how bad a movie it was.

Liking Lois Lane the way she is is not inherently transphobic, but the mere suggestion that a trans woman could play her at some nebulous point in the future by saying that a man shouldn't be allowed to play that character is transphobic.

[Machias Banshee]

Originally Posted by Jester

No, that's too draconian. We already have rules for those non-TMNT, they just need more enforcement...and I would if I could, but that sub-forum is out of my limited jurisdiction

I wanted to bump this post up to present. Since there's been a lot of comments about the amount of moderating happening here.

Let me tell you a story...

Back in early 2001-2 (I think), there was a group of us that lived on the forums constantly. We were a tight knit group that helped new members, troubleshoot posting issues, and were the official welcoming party and mango distributors of the forum. As the forum grew, Krang and Shredder asked us if we'd be willing to help. We'd gotten to know each other, we were an upbeat group, and the drome had a good reputation throughout the fandom. The place was growing in popularity, so we agreed to help.

Becoming a moderator is more than just fandom. It took positive, patient people that could settle disputes and keep the peace. If there was a dispute, we'd talk it out in a post or PM and that was it. Back then, we didn't have the kind of hostility and faction-fighting that we have now. People were expected to moderate their behavior. And they did...

Now, most moderators have moved on. We added Jester because he was a positive, outgoing guy that was genuinely like throughout the forums, and was good at keeping the peace in the threads.

The only Supermoderators now are me and GK, and unfortunately, we're both pulled away due to work/life. I am trying to get Jester up to Supermod status, so that he's not stuck monitoring and unable to do anything. He would be able to check accounts, manage threads in all the forums, research IP addresses, and warn/ban people when necessary.

We have been reviewing potential candidates for moderator status, but we would have to get it approved by Krang. Only Krang and Shredder have the administrative access to create Moderators.



So, in all, people need to moderate themselves. Everyone here is capable of looking at a thread and deciding not to post in it. S#itposting is a waste of energy and time and money. Krang and Shredder being gracious enough to pay the costs for hosting and data storage is the reason this place still exists.

I would hate to see them look at the fighting in the General Discussion forum and ask themselves why bother paying for constant fights and hatred. Why spend money on a forum that has gained one of the worst reputations in the fandom due to the fandom?

This forum was closed once. Many years ago. Krang had had enough, and this place was gone. It was a number of months until he decided to upgrade the forums and bring it back. Do we really want to risk that again?



Yes, the moderators are hard to come by. But look at what we deal with - Jester has a family to support. GK Has responsibilities outside this forum. I am taking care of a full time job, taking care of my household, and managing a new sports 'career'. Many of you have the same responsibilities. I'm lucky if I get on here once a month, but when I do, I read every single thread in existence. Want to discuss the upcoming series? Nope, gotta moderate a trump thread. Watch the amazing comic videos with the fandom voiceovers? Nope, another feminism good vs evil slugfest... The forum is not fun for me. It is work.

The thing that bothers me most... the little bit of free time we try to offer here to YOU the members, there's someone claiming abuse of power and that the moderators are both absent and overbearing/corrupt. The fact that I had to come on due to THIRTY reported posts in my email box... and then see the forum problems being blamed on the moderators?

Let me be clear...
We are not your parents
We are not lawyers
We are members, just like you
We want to enjoy the forums, just like you
We don't like when people fight, just like you

But we cannot control YOU.

YOU are the one that must Stop fighting.
YOU are the one that must Stop flamebaiting.
YOU are the one that must Stop trolling.


Every person that has received a warning from me gets the same message:

We can talk to you, we can help you, we can warn you, and we can ban you. Your fate is in your hands.



~Machias

[Refractive Reflections]

Well I know this will be somewhat unpopular, but I'll say it.

I don't disagree with you Machias Banshee, but maybe there needs to be a through review into these forums as to who is consistently provoking, trolling, flamebaiting, etc. And there's no better way to see that then going through the Disintegrator Unit as to assess which members frequently have posts that end up there within a given span of time (i.e. ranging from 3 months to possibly a year), while also reviewing the content of the posts. ...As the saying goes, "Where there's smoke, there's fire."

There's always going to be a spectrum of personalities and trolling/flambaiting/fighting within a given population. Ultimately though, these forums reflect what the moderators permit though, just as the atmosphere of a community is set by the community's enforcement and laws. With all due respect and not to be rude, but...if you want less headaches, take a stronger disciplinary approach. It will force individuals to think harder about their posts, knowing if there are stronger repercussions; otherwise, why would they bother to reconsider their posting behavior if things continue with the status quo?

[Andrew NDB]

It's a strange situation. It isn't 1999. It isn't even 2005, or 2010. The rules for handling these things are all different now. Message boards are a side thing now, divorced from the immediate and larger satisfaction of reaching a bigger (if traded for a much more fleeting) audience on social media. I go on Facebook, there's been times I get hit with an invite to some TMNT group that's huge, 3000 active members and has been around for 5 years and I've never heard of it. Stuff like this hits like a kidney punch, out of nowhere, and I'm a guy who's made message boards that are still out there. They're dying everyday. I don't wholly understand the reasons why, but message boards are (this is also compounded on a forum like this one that has 10 year old software that does not allow social media integration... the upgrades are available). The days of 10 moderators banning a bunch of peeps because they posted stuff this week that got others in a tiff is largely over with because... they're passe, lest those message boards just die, earlier than they would otherwise naturally.

And then there's the fact that this is a message board that's 20 years old. Which is awesome. But when it was founded the founders were about 20-35 years old and a good portion of us were all young teenagers, at best. We're not that, anymore. We're not anything close to that anymore. And message boards aren't really a draw for new folks these days.

You poke the bear on old members, you're just going to lose them. And we have. You don't upgrade the software in a 10 years, we're not going to gain any new ones. You can try and be a cutting edge 2018 message board running 2018 software that marries the old with the new social media and maybe get away with that (even then, message boards...)... but you can't be an old board running antiquated software with an old mentality holding onto a belief that this is just going to persevere into the next decade or even the next couple of years. So what do we want to do?

Back on point: banning non-TMNT sections here, in light of all of this? Insanity. You can't cultivate, let alone maintain a true community by not allowing one to happen. Removing the one thing that separates a true TMNT message board from someone replying to John James' latest post on the hippest TMNT Facebook group is the surest way to kill it faster.

[Vegita-San]

and then you just have the changing political climate.

and I don't mean politics. I mean people going out there looking to INTENTIONALLY troll and rile people up. Or the SJW that, for whatever reason, likes to rile people up with over reactionary responses, and then slink away when they get caught.

If a few of these people would get pruned from here, I think you'd find it would be alot less infighting and things would be at least a little marginally happier.

I reported one thread three times this week, because it's just there to cause trouble, and it's still there. -edit just noticed it finally got locked. but why keep it up at all? and why is the person who started it not banned when it clearly looks like they arn't going to be a good member of the community?

stuff like that I think needs to be addressed in this new age of message boards. it's just not the same climate it was 6 years ago.

[Spike Spiegel]

I'm absolutely one of those people who likes making jokes and quips, and I see that sort of thing as part of the unique appeal of this board in comparison to larger outlets like Reddit or Tumblr, where the interactions are far less personal.

It's not that hard to look at oneself individually and decide not to be an jerk about things. There's a delicate balance between playful banter and sh*tposting, and it seems like a lot of people here have forgotten that.

[plastroncafe]

Here's the thing folks, removing one or two people isn't going to change the climate of this board. Updating the software isn't going to change the climate of this board. Locking the Forum to one or two topics, like a music teacher removing bars from a xylophone, isn't going to change the climate of this board.

Actually acting like a community, and respecting the boundaries of the members of that Community, is the only thing that's going to stop the infighting. This means not purposely egging people on because you think it's fun, not going out of your way to use Buzz words and terminology cuz it makes you feel cool, and actually standing Down When someone tells you you've gone too far..

And there's not a moderation banhammer in the world that can do that.

So maybe it's time we actually listen to the mods, and police our own goddamn Behavior.
Be the change you want to see in the world.

Don't like a thread, don't post in it.
Or, if you are like me and see some forms of silence as complicity, raise your objections once and then move on.

If you can't respect the other members of the board, or yourself, at least respect the mods.

Change is the only constant, and it's time to change.

[ProphetofGanja]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

I'm absolutely one of those people who likes making jokes and quips, and I see that sort of thing as part of the unique appeal of this board in comparison to larger outlets like Reddit or Tumblr, where the interactions are far less personal.

It's not that hard to look at oneself individually and decide not to be an jerk about things. There's a delicate balance between playful banter and sh*tposting, and it seems like a lot of people here have forgotten that.

I think there's also a problem caused by people misusing the term "sh!tposting" when they mean "flamebaiting". I think sh!tposting is generally more light-hearted, silly posting and flamebaiting is done expressly to offend or rile up other forum members. The definitions of words related to online affairs definitely change quickly though, so there's that

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Here's the thing folks, removing one or two people isn't going to change the climate of this board. Updating the software isn't going to change the climate of this board. Locking the Forum to one or two topics, like a music teacher removing bars from a xylophone, isn't going to change the climate of this board.

Actually acting like a community, and respecting the boundaries of the members of that Community, is the only thing that's going to stop the infighting. This means not purposely egging people on because you think it's fun, not going out of your way to use Buzz words and terminology cuz it makes you feel cool, and actually standing Down When someone tells you you've gone too far..

And there's not a moderation banhammer in the world that can do that.

So maybe it's time we actually listen to the mods, and police our own goddamn Behavior.
Be the change you want to see in the world.

Don't like a thread, don't post in it.
Or, if you are like me and see some forms of silence as complicity, raise your objections once and then move on.

If you can't respect the other members of the board, or yourself, at least respect the mods.

Change is the only constant, and it's time to change.

Actually you'd be surprised how removing one or two off-key bars from a xylophone (and replacing with one or two new bars that can work in harmony with the rest of the bars) can dramatically improve the overall atmosphere of a musical piece, because everytime these off-key bars make noise, the end result is jarring.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

If a few of these people would get pruned from here, I think you'd find it would be alot less infighting and things would be at least a little marginally happier.

I reported one thread three times this week, because it's just there to cause trouble, and it's still there. -edit just noticed it finally got locked. but why keep it up at all? and why is the person who started it not banned when it clearly looks like they arn't going to be a good member of the community?

That's why I mentioned earlier to look at the Disintegrator Unit subforum and other locked threads, it becomes evident who the individuals are that perpetually antagonize other members here.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

Actually you'd be surprised how removing one or two off-key bars from a xylophone (and replacing with one or two new bars that can work in harmony with the rest of the bars) can dramatically improve the overall atmosphere of a musical piece, because everytime these off-key bars make noise, the end result is jarring.

I was specifically calling back to grammar school music class where bars not required for a particular piece of music were removed so as to lessen the temptation to go "off book" as it were, but this is interesting to know!

(It's entirely possible that grammar school music classes look a whole lot different now than they did when I was in attendance.)

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

I mean people going out there looking to INTENTIONALLY troll and rile people up. Or the SJW that, for whatever reason, likes to rile people up with over reactionary responses, and then slink away when they get caught.
If a few of these people would get pruned from here, I think you'd find it would be a lot less infighting and things would be at least a little marginally happier.
I reported one thread three times this week,

This is infuriating.

I'm, genuinely sorry, that the mods were called in, for this.

Let me make it as clear as I possibly can. I WASN'T TROLLING.
Call me whatever you want, but I honestly thought it was time to give a transwoman a shot on a mainstream show. That's it. What's so wrong with that?

Yes, i got swept up in the attacks, but I didn't go looking for attacks. I thought there might be some differences of opinion, but not massive hate and aggression.

You've all mentioned how I know, you well - yeah, I didn't post often until now, because of the bullying that goes on when you say something others don't like.
I've read old posts, and finally made two posts as of late, the last one being shut down immediately because "that movies going to suck, so who cares", followed by this. It's what I was afraid of.
But, why am I the one who should be silent?

I don't know what you'd call this guy's behavior, but reporting something because you don't agree with the politics of it, is the problem. Ignore, and move on.
It's not for the Mod to editorialize on your behalf. I'm sure it's exhausting to get an ton of email alerts because some guy is uncomfortable with typed words on a screen.
30 alerts? how many came from the same loud-mouthed bully?
It was clear to me that my offense was that the suggestion in my post was read to be so preposterous as to be outright trolling. All I can say is, look around you, the world has moved forward, and though it might be pushing the boundaries for some people, it's far from shocking to suggest, for most of us.

Again, Machias, I'm sorry this happened. I hope you have a good weekend.

[TurtleWA]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

This is infuriating.

I'm, genuinely sorry, that the mods were called in, for this.

Let me make it as clear as I possibly can. I WASN'T TROLLING.
Call me whatever you want, but I honestly thought it was time to give a transwoman a shot on a mainstream show. That's it. What's so wrong with that?

Yes, i got swept up in the attacks, but I didn't go looking for attacks. I thought there might be some differences of opinion, but not massive hate and aggression.

You've all mentioned how I know, you well - yeah, I didn't post often until now, because of the bullying that goes on when you say something others don't like.
I've read old posts, and finally made two posts as of late, the last one being shut down immediately because "that movies going to suck, so who cares", followed by this. It's what I was afraid of.
But, why am I the one who should be silent?

I don't know what you'd call this guy's behavior, but reporting something because you don't agree with the politics of it, is the problem. Ignore, and move on.
It's not for the Mod to editorialize on your behalf. I'm sure it's exhausting to get an ton of email alerts because some guy is uncomfortable with typed words on a screen.
30 alerts? how many came from the same loud-mouthed bully?
It was clear to me that my offense was that the suggestion in my post was read to be so preposterous as to be outright trolling. All I can say is, look around you, the world has moved forward, and though it might be pushing the boundaries for some people, it's far from shocking to suggest, for most of us.

Again, Machias, I'm sorry this happened. I hope you have a good weekend.

Hi dude, Looking back maybe it wasn’t the best choice for your first thread. That seemed a little like trolling to create a thread surrounding a “hot button issue” right out the gate. Then admitting you have lurked and know how some members behave just appeared to reinforce the idea of trolling.

Maybe the thread could have been more understandable if you had already posted often. Or maybe were unaware of what gets some members fired up. But you admitted to lurking and still decided to post.

Not a good first impression. Maybe make some harmless TMNT posts. It is a TMNT forum. I would like to know how you selected your user name?

[sdp]

Current Events needs to be nuked.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by sdp

Current Events needs to be nuked.

Reading through this thread especially is enough cause for that:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...=59113&page=13

[TurtleWA]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Reading through this thread especially is enough cause for that:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...=59113&page=13

But we have fun threads like this for example. So the entire area isn’t that bad.

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=59511

[ProphetofGanja]

Yeah let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater

[Machias Banshee]

The "His/hers/theirs" thread was getting WAY too personal. I've shut it down and moved it to the disintegrator.

The issue is not the non-tmnt sections in general, it's the hypersensitive political topics that get people escalating out of control.

If we have to reinforce the 'no politics and religion' rule that Krang initially put in place when he created the forum, then the mods and I will discuss how to move forward.