Black April

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I know she wasn't originally black, what I was referring to was the history of the character (Where colorists sometimes mistakenly drew her with darker skin) And the person April is based on (who was a person of color).

She was onky colored dark on that one cover, isn't it? I don't recall any others, unless they're Archie issues? And honsstly, I never took that one cover from volume 1 as her being black. The whole cover is shadowed... I always took it as meant to show a night time scene... April was based on a former girlfriend of Kevin's who was half black tho?

[sdp]

No, his girlfriend was latina, the character was meant to be white, I did my research and there's some confusion but she was not intended to be another race, at least that we can find any evidence of.

Changes that don't give us something interesting are stupid, Hamato Yoshi being Splinter is interesting, April having psychic powers is dumb. Race changing a character is personally insulting and almost never works out and it's almost always done just to pander or to lazily add diversity to the group.

I'd rather have Carter or an original character as a main character than make another person another race. Raph being leader is not an "interesting" change, it's dumb. Of course we'll have to wait and see how it all actually looks and plays out in the show and it may very well prove us wrong but they're all red flags, same as the TMNT having magical powers and "Mystic" NY.

If you want an interesting new take on the TMNT why not make a show of the Mecha Future TMNT from the shorts? That's something new, not changing things for changes sake, at least one pilot was female and I'm guessing at least one was not white, I can't recall. There diversity without pandering and also trying something new without violating the pillars of what make the shows a show.

Why were people so upset about the TMNT being aliens for the TMNT movie or Eric Sachs as Shredder? They're also changes, doing something NEW for thef ranchise. Shredder is voiced by a black man in the OT and some would argue looked "black", should he be black?

[CyberCubed]

I nearly had a mental breakdown over Eric Sachs being Shredder. Even worse than Turtle nostrils.

[Prowler]

Mrmaczaps made a good point(first time I've agreed with him ever) about April's hairstyle being similar to those of many women back in he 80s, when that style was in vogue. I never really felt April was originally meant to be black or mixed or whatever. I haven't read much Mirage yet to see if April's relatives ever appear in it, but she had an aunt appear in the FW series(based on Agatha Christie, I guess) and her father appeared in flashbacks in the 2k3 series. Both were white. So yeah, I've always assumed April to be a White Irish American woman. So this racial change a la Baxter Stockman from Mirage to FW is a bit random, but whatever. I'm nota fan of racial changes like that, but I can let this one slide better than changing Shredder's race. I mean, after all being Irish was never a big part of April's character and personality, unlike Oroku Saki's Japanese ancestry.

sdp, I remember "person of colour" being more commonly used in the 90s. That term seems to have regained popularity in this current decade. And I agree with your points about alien turtles also being changes. I honestly don't know how making April black will make her a better character overall tbh. April's character might have its flaws that make her less interesting other than being "TMNT's human connection to the world", but that hardly has anything to do with her ethnic background. So lemme guess, in the new cartoon April will be a black girl who lives in a majorly white neighbourhood or goes to a predominantly white school and thus feels out of place and then befriends the Turtles, finding the "we don't fit in" thing in common with them? I can see it now. Because if it's just changign her race "because" it just smells like tokenism and agenda.

Also sdp, never heard ANYONE argue that Shredder looked black in the FW series. But maybe some people are dumb and don't realise that there's tanned Japanese people. Not all Japanese people are pale skinned. Some actually have natural tans.

[plastroncafe]

It could be, and maybe it should be, argued that anything that targets one specific demographic is in fact pandering to that demographic.

The fact remains that nowhere in the text itself does it give a April's race. Leaving her race open to interpretation. Just because a few folks assume no mention of race or ethnicity means white, doesn't mean the rest of us have to do that.

To that end, making April anything other than white isn't in change for the sake of change, it's a valid interpretation. And just as valid as anyone else's.

[sdp]

April being black is the last of my concerns in this new show, I want to like it but all the things we're learning about it about the magic NYC and Raph as leader don't seem like good ideas. I hope I love it though.

I deleted the people of color part of my post since It's not that important and it's not an argument I want to have.

As far as Shredder being black, I never though that either but I know I've seen some topics in the drome in all my time here about it. Maybe I can find them int he search.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

It could be, and maybe it should be, argued that anything that targets one specific demographic is in fact pandering to that demographic.

I feel it's pandering not to people of that race but people who want to be "inclusive" and miss the point and in many ways end up being unintentionally racist, I've come across this a lot. I've already given examples of how I'd like to be represented and it's not changing the color of someone. But we'll just agree to disagree there since there's no changing our opinions.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

It could be, and maybe it should be, argued that anything that targets one specific demographic is in fact pandering to that demographic.

The fact remains that nowhere in the text itself does it give a April's race. Leaving her race open to interpretation. Just because a few folks assume no mention of race or ethnicity means white, doesn't mean the rest of us have to do that.

To that end, making April anything other than white is in change for the sake of change, it's a valid interpretation. And just as valid as anyone else's.

This whole "April might have been black" thing seems to be rather recent though, no? Not to mention she has been very white looking in incarnation since Mirage, so it just seems a bit odd for her to suddenly be black.

Ofc not mentioning her race means no one is certain for sure... except laird and Eastman, if they EVER had race in mind when coming up with her design that is. But tbh, she's statistically more likely to be White, considering her Irish last name. When people write novels they don't usually mention a character's racial history or anything. Just like if I watch anime I'm gonna assume people with Japanese names are fully Japanese until stated otherwise.

Originally Posted by sdp

April being black is the last of my concerns in this new show, I want to like it but all the things we're learning about it about the magic NYC and Raph as leader don't seem like good ideas. I hope I love it though.

I deleted the people of color part of my post since It's not that important and it's not an argument I want to have.

As far as Shredder being black, I never though that either but I know I've seen some topics in the drome in all my time here about it. Maybe I can find them int he search.

Well I'll be damned. Never ever have I seen someone argue this. I only remember Coola saying Shredder "acted white" in the FW series and that he knew people who thought he was always white. I dunno what he meant by that. And he also said the Turtles "acted white" as well, which I don't know what that means either.

[plastroncafe]

That all depends on your definition of recent.
I've seen people mention it off and on for the better part of the last 10 years. But then I've only been involved in fandom online for the last 10 years or so.

I have friends who tell me that April was always a brunette until the first live-action movie when she became a redhead. Because they always used the Fred Wolf cartoon as her having brown hair, and not red.

Whereas the only brunette April I have ever known is the Mirage one.

And since it's not really mentioned all that much in the text people are allowed to make up whatever they want.

Once an author publishes a work, how people interpret that work is not for them to control.

JK Rowling never specifically mentions Harry or Hermione's ethnicity or skin color in text. She has Doodles, and signed off on cover art, but it's not an incorrect reading of Harry Potter to assume that Harry is Indian, or Hermione is black.

Conversely there were people really angry at The Hunger Games movie for making Rue a little black girl, even though Susan Collins specifically describes her as being black in her book.

[Jester]

Does April being black affect her being the Turtles human ally and one link to the outside world?

[Prowler]

April being brunette or redheaded isn't really a big deal imo. Sometimes it's hard to tell what a woman's natural hair colour even is anyway, since they love to colour their hair. Compared to job changes and age bracket changes, racial changes; hair colour change seems rather insignificant. Also, her hair didn't get ridiculously red until the 2k3 series anyway. I vaguely recall her hair being brown in some FW episodes. It depended on the animation on that episode, I guess.

Originally Posted by Jester

Does April being black affect her being the Turtles human ally and one link to the outside world?

No. I do wonder how that will make her a more interesting character, though. I wonder what kind of story they will have for her.

Also, Raphael will be the leader in the new cartoon, really? Man, each TMNT incarnation always has considerable changes. No wonder this fandom is so divided.

[sdp]

Does Raph being a frog affect him being a teenage mutant ninja and outsider to the rest of the world?

[Jester]

Originally Posted by sdp

Does Raph being a frog affect him being a teenage mutant ninja and outsider to the rest of the world?

Well, you see, Turtles is part of the title....so...

[sdp]

splinter then

[plastroncafe]

Only if you're speciest.

And besides, them being amphibians is canon, at least according to FW's Shredder.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Jester

Well, you see, Turtles is part of the title....so...

The same title that says "Teenage"? And many would argue they don't really act like teenagers in most of their incarnations buy like guys in their early 20s, so let's no go there, sdp

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, that's still something to keep in mind. And even when IDW still remembers to treat them like teenagers, it's still more like older teenagers in the 16/17 range, when they're speculated to be 14/15. By all means, they should be more like the Stranger Things kids in terms of behavior and general looks. Or any other generic 80's-type Kids Go On Adventure movie.

Or Michelangelo would be in there at the very least. Which is pretty logical, all things considered with his aloofness.

[Andrew NDB]

Wait, why are we assuming April O'Neil identifies as female in the new cartoon?

[plastroncafe]

Don't mind Andrew.
He just recently learned about pro-nouns.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac

Yeah, that's still something to keep in mind. And even when IDW still remembers to treat them like teenagers, it's still more like older teenagers in the 16/17 range, when they're speculated to be 14/15. By all means, they should be more like the Stranger Things kids in terms of behavior and general looks. Or any other generic 80's Kids Go On Adventure movie.

Raphael certainly didn't sound like a teenager in the 2k3 series . As for FW, Zach was "almost 14" as he claimed. yet the Turtles clearly referred to him as "kid". Hell Raphael even called Carter a kid in the Red Sky seasons. Ad Carter was a college student, meaning he must have been around 18-21, I guess? A teenager calling a college aged student a "kid"?

[Utrommaniac]

Yeah, Raphael probably does suffer the most by being the least teenager-y, maybe followed by Leonardo. What I can see working is a 17/16/15/14 age mix, which would create allowances in some of them having more adult-like behavior and growing-out-of-childhood behavior in a spectrum. With Leonardo being the most adult in behavior and Michelangelo the least.