Maryland school shooting leaves 2 students injured, gunman dead - Page 4

**Barkworm** · 03-22-2018, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

I'm sorry if I've brought offense. I would never try to purposefully upset anyone.

I wasn't talking about your comments in particular, don't worry.

*plastroncafe* · 03-22-2018, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Both points are important, as I made a comment elsewhere that while the good guys with guns recently have had some wins, the next solution needed is to reach a circumstance where they are needed less. And certainly if people are carrying out these atrocities where armed others are present, it isn't much of a deterrent, is it? People still commit murders in states with the death penalty, so is that a genuine deterrent either? The problem definitely is multi faceted.

Americans don't handle multifaceted well, I don't know that we ever have.

*Andrew NDB* · 03-22-2018, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkworm

This discussion is sickening but I agree with one thing: The US have become so ****ed up that armed schools are the most simple and thus sadly the best solution to the problem of school shootings.

"Solution" isn't the right word. It isn't going to "solve" anything. What it does is it provides some measure of defense, whereas before there was/is 0.

*IndigoErth* · 03-22-2018, 10:31 AM

A thought I had several days ago...

And let me first state plainly that yes, I'm well aware that obviously it would not be a solution in a case like this where it involves a current student or staff member, however--

Given how often an attacker is not a current student or staff member, why don't we first and foremost put to use simple tech that already exists and update schools to require a key card to get through the doors during school hours?

Once the doors close and lock at the start of the school day, you need a key card to get through them. (Not needed for exiting.) Give one to each student, approved parent or guardian, and staff member. Issue a new one each school year and change the code so old cards no longer work. Anyone without a card will have to be cleared and let in by security (armed) instead.

Is it foolproof, of course not - esp when doors are open in the morning or a smarter attacker that figures out some kind of hack if possible - but in many cases it could help prevent or delay entry (hopefully long enough for security to respond) by anyone during the day who should not be in the building; be it an attacker, kidnapper, or what have you.

Instead of going overboard outright and forcing all the teachers to carry guns and instill the mental/emotional implications that could have by giving kids the message that they live in a military state (yeah I'm probably using that word all wrong) and are always under threat of attack...

Cripe, during the years I was dealing with anxiety issues as a student I think I'd have just been given a stroke at that point if I believed our lives were considered at risk 24/7. And given the middle school I went to at the time, I would have never trusted that some of the students might not have tried to take that gun from a teacher. Let alone not knowing if all teachers are themselves even trustworthy with it, if by mindset or a simple lack of reasonable ability to handle the thing.

joe-eyeball · 03-22-2018, 11:33 AM

The school my wife teaches at has automatically locking doors at all entrance points and an officer is posted at the school at all times during school hours. All of this is in place despite being an incredibly poor district and it certainly gives me some piece of mind. They also are considering armed staff (voluntary and trained by local police) which I’m also for. Mind you none of this can prevent a determined shooter from at least attempting to cause harm but it can aid in reducing the carnage quite a bit! The horrible reality is that until we find a way to fix people (good luck with that), I believe such measures are absolutely the best current defense against active shooters at schools! Remember there is no such thing as an effective deterrent for crime as long as there are people out there willing to commit it!

*PApagreg* · 03-22-2018, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"Solution" isn't the right word. It isn't going to "solve" anything. What it does is it provides some measure of defense, whereas before there was/is 0.

Almost half of schools in the U.S have an armed security guard so to say that the measure for schools defense is 0 is beyond ludicrous

*Papenbrook* · 03-22-2018, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe-eyeball

The school my wife teaches at has automatically locking doors at all entrance points and an officer is posted at the school at all times during school hours. All of this is in place despite being an incredibly poor district and it certainly gives me some piece of mind.

Does said district have a white majority, or is it more diverse?

*plastroncafe* · 03-22-2018, 12:52 PM

Zero defense apparently looks an awful lot like locks on doors and windows, metal detectors, security monitoring the perimeter, and emergency procedures.

Armed guards at the doors aren't good defense if people are still attacking the school with arms. If anything, they've the potential to be good offense.

joe-eyeball · 03-22-2018, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

Does said district have a white majority, or is it more diverse?

Mostly Caucasian

~~Sumac~~ · 03-22-2018, 02:39 PM

Whatever it is PC will find a way to say that it's all "white people" fault.

*plastroncafe* · 03-22-2018, 02:54 PM

Shhh, no one tell him that the shooter in Maryland was white.
I wouldn't want to shatter his illusion of me.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 03-22-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Shhh, no one tell him that the shooter in Maryland was white.
I wouldn't want to shatter his illusion of me.

Or the Austin bomber was white.

*TurtleWA* · 03-22-2018, 03:18 PM

~~Sumac~~ · 03-22-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Shhh, no one tell him that the shooter in Maryland was white.
I wouldn't want to shatter his illusion of me.

You ability to not understand nuances of what you are reading is astonishing.
And I was surprised why your "arguments" are so bad.

*plastroncafe* · 03-22-2018, 04:06 PM

Dude, I'm still not into furries.
Please stop hitting on me.

~~Sumac~~ · 03-22-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Dude, I'm still not into furries.
Please stop hitting on me.

So this your new stick?
I always suspected that some of the Lefties are infantile kids, who never grew up, and having yet another prove, is only convinces me further about it.

*plastroncafe* · 03-22-2018, 04:22 PM

Which isn't to say that I'm not impressed by you being as open about it as you are, given your country's form stance against anything other than heteronormative behavior.

More power to you!
Know that you have my support for you to live your truth.
Damn the man!

That said, any further attempts at flirtation on your part, will be sent to the mods as sexual harassment.

But we digress enough.

*PApagreg* · 03-22-2018, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumac

Whatever it is PC will find a way to say that it's all "white people" fault.

I find it ironic that you complain "PC" or "Progressive" when you have the same kneejerk reactions they do(or at least the worst of them) and basically start ****

~~Sumac~~ · 03-22-2018, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Which isn't to say that I'm not impressed by you being as open about it as you are, given your country's form stance against anything other than heteronormative behavior.

More power to you!
Know that you have my support for you to live your truth.
Damn the man!

That said, any further attempts at flirtation on your part, will be sent to the mods as sexual harassment.

But we digress enough.

There is difference between progress and lunacy.
Maybe your trolling is an attempt to compensate for something, I wonder? To attract attention? Maybe it is you who want to score a date with me, hm?

**Machias Banshee** · 03-22-2018, 06:39 PM

Okay, enough of the back and forth sniping. Sumac, Plastron, Papagreg, end it now. We have more than enough of that in other threads.

03-22-2018, 10:31 AM	#64
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,237	A thought I had several days ago... And let me first state plainly that yes, I'm well aware that obviously it would not be a solution in a case like this where it involves a current student or staff member, however-- Given how often an attacker is not a current student or staff member, why don't we first and foremost put to use simple tech that already exists and update schools to require a key card to get through the doors during school hours? Once the doors close and lock at the start of the school day, you need a key card to get through them. (Not needed for exiting.) Give one to each student, approved parent or guardian, and staff member. Issue a new one each school year and change the code so old cards no longer work. Anyone without a card will have to be cleared and let in by security (armed) instead. Is it foolproof, of course not - esp when doors are open in the morning or a smarter attacker that figures out some kind of hack if possible - but in many cases it could help prevent or delay entry (hopefully long enough for security to respond) by anyone during the day who should not be in the building; be it an attacker, kidnapper, or what have you. Instead of going overboard outright and forcing all the teachers to carry guns and instill the mental/emotional implications that could have by giving kids the message that they live in a military state (yeah I'm probably using that word all wrong) and are always under threat of attack... Cripe, during the years I was dealing with anxiety issues as a student I think I'd have just been given a stroke at that point if I believed our lives were considered at risk 24/7. And given the middle school I went to at the time, I would have never trusted that some of the students might not have tried to take that gun from a teacher. Let alone not knowing if all teachers are themselves even trustworthy with it, if by mindset or a simple lack of reasonable ability to handle the thing. Last edited by IndigoErth; 03-22-2018 at 10:41 AM.

03-22-2018, 11:33 AM	#65
joe-eyeball Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cleveland Posts: 681	The school my wife teaches at has automatically locking doors at all entrance points and an officer is posted at the school at all times during school hours. All of this is in place despite being an incredibly poor district and it certainly gives me some piece of mind. They also are considering armed staff (voluntary and trained by local police) which I’m also for. Mind you none of this can prevent a determined shooter from at least attempting to cause harm but it can aid in reducing the carnage quite a bit! The horrible reality is that until we find a way to fix people (good luck with that), I believe such measures are absolutely the best current defense against active shooters at schools! Remember there is no such thing as an effective deterrent for crime as long as there are people out there willing to commit it!

03-22-2018, 02:39 PM	#70
~~Sumac~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6,129	Whatever it is PC will find a way to say that it's all "white people" fault.

03-22-2018, 03:18 PM	#73
TurtleWA Foot Elite Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: WA Posts: 2,507

03-22-2018, 06:39 PM	#80
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Okay, enough of the back and forth sniping. Sumac, Plastron, Papagreg, end it now. We have more than enough of that in other threads.