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Old 07-29-2017, 01:32 PM   #1
neatoman
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What is honestly better about OotS than the first?

Alright, so it's been over a year now and I get the impression that the general consensus now is that both of these movies are just awful. Anyone who claimed to really like one of them seem to have changed their mind or been uprooted. What I don't get, are the people who still claim the second movie was an improvement over the first one. How was it a better movie?

The first one is not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination but at least there was set-up, payoff, minimal character motivation, acceptable pacing, only really juggled one plotline and if nothing else it was short for a movie of it's time.

The second one is longer, has sub-plots that go nowhere, concepts that aren't given satisfying any explaination, one villain who does nothing, another who is given very little screentime and two really annoying villains.

How is it better? It's just an even bigger mess.
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:40 PM   #2
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I fully agree, they both suck
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Old 07-29-2017, 02:01 PM   #3
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Neither of them are good movies and are hugely flawed for separate reasons (with some shared reasons in the middle).

Personally, I prefer the second, primarily because it put the focus on the brothers as the stars of it (not halfassed April), the relationships between them (somewhat), tried to show a minuscule amount of down time with them, they look better in better lighting and tweaks to the models, Leo's vocal acting is better with Pete (for various reasons imo) and they did more with him than just have him present... and whatever else I'm forgetting.

That does not forgive it for the flaws, esp in a very lazy story, Casey, etc... but it did at least do a bunch of things (as mentioned) that I'd hoped for and, most importantly, did not leave me walking out feeling depressed like the first one did. (I'm sure getting some things I hoped for helped.) Feeling like "best movie ever"? God no... but I'd at least prefer not to feel depressed over it, even if some elements deserved an eye roll.



The only real subplot I see happening in the second - though imo it is very vague and you gotta pay attention to it to even pick up on it - is what's going on with Leo and his dealing with the failure of stopping Shredder from escaping, his disappointment in how he thinks they are not performing together as a team well (hit on by the opening training stuff, his comments after they go down the water fall, in the plane, etc), and the fear of how this new "it could turn us human!" ooze could tear them apart...all while Splinter told him that if he keeps the team together they'll always succeed. (And we know failing the last thing this guy wants to keep doing.) Stuff is bugging him for a good amount of the movie if you keep an eye on him... I give them a little credit that they keep this going with him and being vague isn't really a bad thing as its fun to pick up on it if you look hard enough, but it would have been nice to have at least one other subplot that is a bit more obvious and actually goes somewhere.

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Old 07-29-2017, 02:22 PM   #4
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Not to mention all violence was pretty much avoided. It sucked way harder.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:02 PM   #5
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Well, the second one does have alot more screentime and focus on the turtles rather than April, and I think the voice cast/performances of the turtles were pretty well done, as if they really were brothers. And the turtles themselves are better than the first, having more distinct personalities rather than just all being Michelangalo and having more colourful and cartoony designs than the last film.

Other than the turtles, my reasons for liking Oots more than the first are the side characters. I really enjoyed Bebop, Rocksteady and Baxter Stockman in Oots and found them really memorable.

The only things I like better from the first film is the plot and April's connection to the turtles which wasn't there as much in oots, in favour of reducing April into seducing Mad scientists in schoolgirl outfits.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:35 PM   #6
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This one has more to make fun of.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:35 PM   #7
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April wasn't the star of OOTS, that alone makes it superior, to me. But like FWL said, the turtles themselves are seen more & done a little bit better in general, + Bebop/Rocksteady weren't half bad. Loses major points for the Casey Jones botch-job, though, among other more obvious errors. I just find it easier to watch. 2014 is just bad, whereas 2016 is nearing the "so bad it's good" territory. Originally, the awfulness just hurt, it made me angry, but on the second go it was almost self-aware in its stupidity, so I was able to laugh a few times.

The first movie is darker & more violent, which I appreciate about it in comparison, but it was tonally all over the place, riddled with plot-holes, too many human leads, etc. Its sequel was goofy as hell, but at least it was consistent in that regard, focused on the turtles, & tried to pick up some slack by pandering to Fred Wolf fans (which I normally hate, but it helped, in their case, IMO).

Lest there be any confusion, I think they're both garbage. But I re-watched OOTS, & wish never to re-watch its predecessor. Well, I'd peep a fan-edit that cuts out a lot of stuff, but that's it.
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:41 PM   #8
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The first one was like a drunk driving bumper cars on steroids.

The second film was as pointless as one of the later Fred Wolf cartoon episodes times 4... but it made me laugh a few times so thats about all it had going for it.

I'm sure I'll get some grief despite this being a thread started as "these movies sucked" and I didn't start it... lol
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Old 07-29-2017, 03:48 PM   #9
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For me, it's the turtles themselves. We actually get time in OOTS to learn more about them and really see how they interact with one another. When I watch a TMNT movie, I want to see the Turtles primarily and not April O'Neil. The turtles felt almost lij guest stars in the first one so that was a welcomed change for the second.

There were a few moments that I really enjoyed in the second one: "Not a monster" scene, some of the interactions between Leonardo and his brothers and as cheesy as it is, I do love the "no one messes with Mikey" scene. BeBop and Rocksteady made me laugh as did Baxter Stockman.

It's hardly a masterpiece but it entertained me far better than the first one did.
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Old 07-29-2017, 04:49 PM   #10
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I think one of my favorite parts really is the ending. People panned it at first, thinking it was going to be the Turtles outed, but since it takes place ONLY with the members of the police force who are now aware of them, and not the public at large, I'm okay with that. Wrapping it up with the Turtles receiving 'keys to the city,' which would surely mean a lot to them, was kind of sweet really.

Plus the final shot of them up there in the torch of the Statue of Liberty. Probably kind of a cliche way to close it, but since it's a local historical monument they'd probably never gotten the real opportunity to check out, it's cute. Just wish we'd gotten to follow them up there, climbing all those stairs. (Missed opportunity to have Mikey start to whine about it. lol)
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
I think one of my favorite parts really is the ending. People panned it at first, thinking it was going to be the Turtles outed, but since it takes place ONLY with the members of the police force who are now aware of them, and not the public at large, I'm okay with that. Wrapping it up with the Turtles receiving 'keys to the city,' which would surely mean a lot to them, was kind of sweet really.

Plus the final shot of them up there in the torch of the Statue of Liberty. Probably kind of a cliche way to close it, but since it's a local historical monument they'd probably never gotten the real opportunity to check out, it's cute. Just wish we'd gotten to follow them up there, climbing all those stairs. (Missed opportunity to have Mikey start to whine about it. lol)
Not to mention the music, which I still remember while I forgot what the background soundtrack of the 2014 movie was like. I liked the end scene of them celebrating on the torch, and the music certainly helped in that case.

And who could forget the theme song at the end. I loved the mashup of the original cartoon theme and Go Ninja Go.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:51 PM   #12
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The Turtles personalities themselves were definitely a lot better in the second. Not "good" by any means, but they still felt more like the Turtles. First movie they had no personalities at all besides Raph being angry and Mike being a pervert.

And best of all, ASIAN Shredder. Shredder a Japanese man.

No disgusting white man Eric Sachs. Eric Sachs didn't appear at all, which is great because the actor signed on for multiple movies. I HATE Eric Sachs. He's easily the worst official TMNT character of all time. A disgusting and offensive nearly 60 year old who almost became white man Shredder.

I actually like rewatching the beginning of Batman The Dark Knight Returns so I can see Eric Sachs be killed in the opening bank robbery scene by the Joker, when he puts a grenade in his mouth:



^ Everyone watch this 5 minute clip from the movie to watch Eric Sachs shot by the Joker and then put a grenade in his mouth. Eric Sachs deserves DEATH.
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Old 07-29-2017, 06:02 PM   #13
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Fitting, since I kinda like to figure that Eric Sachs is essentially Michael Bay, and his actions in the film akin (allegorical?) to Bay's assault on TMNT. (Drain them, even if it kills them; stupid rich... etc.)
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Old 07-30-2017, 12:08 AM   #14
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I agree they're both horrible movies. As far as the thread topic I'd essentially compare them to having either salt or alcohol rubbed on your wounds. You choose your method of torture when it comes to these. They both hurt but in different ways. Some might just prefer one over the other because they think it's not as bad as the alternative.
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:56 AM   #15
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What's better about OotS is that it finished the job this time. R.I.P., f***er.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:46 AM   #16
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Williams and Sheamus felt like they had really good chemistry, like they could be friends off-set even years later, like they could be out for steak and beers tomorrow.

I feel like overall the script was more... Turtle-y? If that make sense? Like it wasn't just an action movie with the Turtles shoved in, but a movie built around the Turtles.

I also liked the aspect of the Turtles making good with the NYPD. Wayyy too rushed, though. It should have been something that was introduced in the first one and followed through to completion here.

I'm leaving out what I don't think worked, because that's not what the topic is about.
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Old 07-30-2017, 11:54 AM   #17
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Eric Sach's

Almost forgot about that.

I appreciated tiny bits and pieces of each but they both completely failed in my eyes. Couldn't even finish the second film.
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:43 PM   #18
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Seeing the worst version of April O' Neil ever for a majority of the movie as well as the origin story get completely butchered was more than enough to make me angry from the first one.

OotS, despite it's lighter tone, at the very least did some(?) things I'd like more in a TMNT film; the turtles acting a little more like characters, conflict between them, less human characters (since even the new cast was awful), etc. It does suck that there were hardly any action scenes compared to the first film which hurts me because it's what I prefer in a movie called Ninja Turtles but in hindsight, nothing about these guys scream "ninja". At least they became self-aware at everything else. It's less terrible than I thought it was going to be but still terrible.
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:19 PM   #19
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Bebop and Rocksteady to be honest. They ruined Krang and Casey. The mutant duo was the only saving grace, and of course the advantage sequels always have after their first movie. Skipping the origin and introductions and getting straight to the action.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:16 PM   #20
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There was at least one ninja in the second one, right? That's an improvement, I guess.

I never watched it.
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