The Quartering critisizes IDW Turtles

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Are you serious? Tom Waltz published his correspondence with her about his plans, asking her to design the character!

How blind are you? You’ve argued that IDW isn’t sinking, but the news is the opposite, now Sophie didn’t get tapped to create Jennika? Do your research, please.

Uh... I have read those, and IIRC their correspondence was about using her pre-existing sketches to adapt to another character. She created Artemisia(sp?), not Jennika. Jennika was a pre-existing character, dating back to the first post-#50 arc and later turned into a mutant. Do your research, please. I've asked this a few times somewhere around here before and I'll ask it again with added color: how many f***ing ways can you design a female mutant ninja turtle? The differences come down to bandanna color and boobs/no boobs. That's it.

You seem to be trying to shoehorn your agenda into the facts merely to rain on IDW's parade. I'm done with that. Cheers!

[Candy Kappa]

Jenn and Artie share like 2 things on common, color yellow and not designed to be boneriffic ie no shell boobs.

Their origin, personality and primary weapons are different

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Uh... I have read those, and IIRC their correspondence was about using her pre-existing sketches to adapt to another character. She created Artemisia(sp?), not Jennika. Jennika was a pre-existing character, dating back to the first post-#50 arc and later turned into a mutant. Do your research, please. I've asked this a few times somewhere around here before and I'll ask it again with added color: how many f***ing ways can you design a female mutant ninja turtle? The differences come down to bandanna color and boobs/no boobs. That's it.

You seem to be trying to shoehorn your agenda into the facts merely to rain on IDW's parade. I'm done with that. Cheers!

No agenda here, but yours is on full display.
For the record, It’s not the female/5th turtle at issue, it’s context.

It’s like if Batman sales really slumped, and their go to was to have him use a gun. Superman isn’t interesting, so let’s kill him.

It’s hack writing. Put the pitchforks away and recognize this move for what it is.

Laird himself has written extensively on how brainless and over suggested a 5th turtle idea was, how it was suggested by every executive, at every meeting. He also eloquently write all the reasons he refused to use said idea, and his reasoning was sound.

[ChosenOne]

Alright, now I'm curious. What is my "agenda"?

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Alright, now I'm curious. What is my "agenda"?

One of them seems to be to pick a fight with me, and level pillory accusations against a truth you refuse to acknowledge.

As I said before, this is a hack move. If you can put out an argument to the contrary, you might change my mind. The burden of proof for how this isn’t a stunt is on you, not me.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Laird himself has written extensively on how brainless and over suggested a 5th turtle idea was, how it was suggested by every executive, at every meeting. He also eloquently write all the reasons he refused to use said idea, and his reasoning was sound.

Laird also hates most mutants, Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady, etc. It's not just a female Turtle, Laird dislikes all mutants outside of Leatherhead which is why he didn't allow the 4kids writers to use any of them in the 2k3 cartoon.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

One of them seems to be to pick a fight with me, and level pillory accusations against a truth you refuse to acknowledge.

As opposed to picking a fight with everyone else because IDW "dared" to introduce a female turtle and you don't like it? I'm one of the least tolerant people of the whole SJW shtick you'll ever meet, and I like to think I'd be one of the first to denounce this whole affair if that's all it amounted to. But I also believe that people are worth more than just their gender or skin color or what-have-you. It doesn't matter that the next person to take over is trans, or that she had a hand in introducing (notice I don't say created) a major female character that's bound to be controversial. What matters is how she works that concept.

In other words, wait and see. I wholeheartedly put my faith in Sophie Campbell. She's earned it.

Originally Posted by TommyT

As I said before, this is a hack move. If you can put out an argument to the contrary, you might change my mind. The burden of proof for how this isn’t a stunt is on you, not me.

You're certainly free to think so. It doesn't necessarily align with reality, though. And you're mistaken in thinking I want or need to change your mind. It'll change by itself, or not at all, and the latter will be your loss.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Laird also hates most mutants, Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady, etc. It's not just a female Turtle, Laird dislikes all mutants outside of Leatherhead which is why he didn't allow the 4kids writers to use any of them in the 2k3 cartoon.

Also this.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Laird also hates most mutants, Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady, etc. It's not just a female Turtle, Laird dislikes all mutants outside of Leatherhead which is why he didn't allow the 4kids writers to use any of them in the 2k3 cartoon.

That's not true at all. He hated the characters of Bebop and Rocksteady, for how they were written, not all mutants.
His argument was that mutation shouldn't be a crutch, and should be substantive, not a vehicle for creature of the week. Bebop and Rocksteady are special cases of hatred for him, but the truth to why has yet to come to light, if we're being honest.

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

As opposed to picking a fight with everyone else because IDW "dared" to introduce a female turtle and you don't like it?

Who said I don't like it? That wasn't what I said. I said, it is a desperate measure, reserved for a very desperate time, like now.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Who said I don't like it? That wasn't what I said. I said, it is a desperate measure, reserved for a very desperate time, like now.

We'll just have to wait and see how desperate of a time it is. If you're right, I'll publicly acknowledge it. But you won't be.

Bear in mind, though, the comic will have to end at some point... But it's safe to say it'll continue at least up to #150.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

We'll just have to wait and see how desperate of a time it is. If you're right, I'll publicly acknowledge it. But you won't be.

Bear in mind, though, the comic will have to end at some point... But it's safe to say it'll continue at least up to #150.

When shareholders are publically calling for sale of a company, I'd place bets that I am right. When Jennika disappears in a time warp, or an alternate dimension, or is kiiled off, or joins the Muteanimals, or is spun off for her own solo adventure, you'll have to contend, STUNT. She will not remain, the addition is transient, to boost sales, nothing more.

I'd also add this isn't what most people would consider to be good writing. Sensationalism, is just that, and should be acknowledged and treated as such.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

When shareholders are publically calling for sale of a company, I'd place bets that I am right. When Jennika disappears in a time warp, or an alternate dimension, or is kiiled off, or joins the Muteanimals, or is spun off for her own solo adventure, you'll have to contend, STUNT. She will not remain, the addition is transient, to boost sales, nothing more.

As my cat's vet replied when I asked her if she thought a petition to build a local animal shelter from which people could adopt strays had any actual traction and chance to achieve its goal: people call for things publicly all the time, for all sorts of reasons. Doesn't mean they all come to pass.

We'll wait and see. If it goes your way, remind me. All I ask is that you keep the crow warm for me.

Originally Posted by TommyT

Sensationalism, is just that, and should be acknowledged and treated as such.

What did you think of Donnie's "death"? Sensationalist? Transient? It's the nature of comics. Plus les choses changent...

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

As my cat's vet replied when I asked her if she thought a petition to build a local animal shelter from which people could adopt strays had any actual traction and chance to achieve its goal: people call for things publicly all the time, for all sorts of reasons. Doesn't mean they all come to pass.

We'll wait and see. If it goes your way, remind me. All I ask is that you keep the crow warm for me.

I think it's very important, as fans, to not be myopic. IDW isn't failing BECAUSE of TURTLES, it's failing for a whole host of reasons, Turtles is one of it's stronger brands.
That said, Rise, and Micheal Bay, have spent a huge chunk of the social cred Turtles once held, (squandered, if you ask me), and diluted. Inspite of that, the love for the core idea remains.
My larger concern, is the stunts will be more dirt on the proverbial coffin, as TMNT is held up as the sacrificial lambs to bail out a company that thought Wyatt Earp was a good idea, or that anyone gives a damn about their barn of broken IP's.

Turtle-mania had an element of self sabotage, that while funny in hindsight, has real world repercussions. The brand is a buisness first and formost, and if Sophie is set up as the last thing the public see's, holding Jennika out as the latest and greatest TMNT has to offer, and it all goes tits up anyway (i almost said turtle tits, but that's both crude and rude) she'll wear the Venus hairshirt, and none of it will be her doing.

Donnies death? VERY stuntterrific. I did not approve, but I would have, if he stayed dead.

[ChosenOne]

Alright, I see your point. But only time will truly tell.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Alright, I see your point. But only time will truly tell.

Cool. Also, for the record, not anti-Sophie, and not a Trump supporter.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

Cool. Also, for the record, not anti-Sophie, and not a Trump supporter.

Well, nobody's perfect.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Well, nobody's perfect.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just hope they don’t end up at DC. Image or Marvel, okay. They don’t belong at DC.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TommyT

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just hope they don’t end up at DC. Image or Marvel, okay. They don’t belong at DC.

On the odd chance it comes to that... Prepare to be disappointed, most likely. The groundwork's already laid out with all these crossovers.

[Damo]

October 2015: Tom Waltz introduces a human Foot Soldier named Jennika into the book, giving the Foot Clan a human face.

Some time in 2016: Tom Waltz decides to get permission to turn Jennika into a female turtle. He has indicated that this was a long and laborious process because he needed permission from a lot of higher-ups.

January-April 2017: Jennika's origin is featured in TMNT Universe.

May 2017: Tom Waltz communicates with Sophie Campbell about coming up with a design for Jennika as a turtle. He indicates Jennika will have a yellow bandanna. Campbell is struck by the fact that she had done a fancomic with a turtle sister named Artemisia, with a yellow bandanna. Sophie suggests maybe lifting some stuff from that character. Waltz points out that Jennika was probably too fleshed out for incorporating things like personality (since her origin had just come out), and Campbell moves away from that suggestion, not incorporating any visuals from Artemisia.

July 2019: News of Jennika's mutation is announced, a culmination of years of work from Tom Waltz and an extensive process of getting permission and planning things out. Of the elements that Campbell suggested in the pitch art, the things that seem to have been used are Jennika's main weapon being claws (in reference to Shredder, and Jennika being a Foot) and... well, a decent pair of pants.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

On the odd chance it comes to that... Prepare to be disappointed, most likely. The groundwork's already laid out with all these crossovers.

Oh, I know. I have already made peace with it, but hate it None the less.

[TommyT]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Do you think perhaps the TMNT creations started off as a parody but when Laird and Eastman starting thinking about TMNT as a comic it quickly turned into an homage?

This is exactly what happened, not to retread, but this point was shot down, when it is infact the official story. Why anyone is arguing it is beyond me.