Crossover ("Wanted: Bebop & Rocksteady") Arc Discussion Thread (WARNING SPOILERS!)

[sdp]

Yes, his vendetta was more important than anything else as we saw when he would rather kill Splinter than save the world/karai/himself in season 3.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that unlike Turtles Forever even when this second crossover was just making fun of the OT turtles, it still wasn't mean spirited and as bad as it got in the other film.


Instead of Shredder acting like a coward to show he was weak, in this crossover you saw him give facial or vocal cues that he clearly was outmatched like in the second round against Beebop/Rocksteady and he goes "I went easy *he looks to ther ight* on you, yes*. That's so much more effective.

The other visual gags like throwing boxes and that not really affecting them whatsoever worked. The only one that really didn't work was Raph trying to open the hydrant and not working, that's almost as bad as what was done in TF.

I still feel they were mistreated but not like TF, here it was done much better even if they had done it perfectly in the previous crossover.

[CyberCubed]

The original cartoon world had cartoon physics. The part with the Turtles dropping cardboard boxes on Bebop/Rocksteady is what they would do all the time in their universe, with boxes, or nets, or whatever and the villains would be trapped under the them.

I mean I love the original cartoon, but it's obvious the OT Turtles were the worst "fighters" out of all the cartoon universes. C'mon now, that's accurate. They had their moments especially in Seasons 1 and 7 but their fights were always brief and simple.

And this is the same Fred Wolf Shredder who was defeated by the Turtles throwing a pizza pie at his face in some episodes, or the Turtles tripping him over and him going flying.

Going from a slapstick Saturday Morning cartoon universe into more "realistic" universes like the 2k3 or Nick verse with actually fighters, of course that's going to be a thing.

[newfan]

I've been interested to see for myself whilst watching the old toons, just how off they were, or not.

[sdp]

They're definitely exagerated versions but they did play with more cartoon physics. Before BTAS/X-Men TAS action cartoons were meant to be taken seriously but were not as "realistic". Still, Shredder was never defeated by a Pizza, closest thing was maybe being tripped by trash cans and running away after that since his main plan had failed but not really "beat".

Season 1: Fairly realistic portrayals
Season 2: Shredder is still seen as a match for the turtles, defeating them all easily.
Season 3:This is where the degradation starts to occur and sillier plots become more apparent.
Season 4: This is where they are at their silliest, still not even the worst episode matches the personalities of Turtles Forever. The European Vacation side-season from S7 takes place here and they're easily the worst episodes of the OT, bad animation/plots etc, if you can survive S4 along the S7 side-season you can survive everything)
Season 5: Things are a little less silly and we finally get a bunch of mutants in the show, it's surprising that the OT is famous for having "so many" mutants but really during turtlemania they hadn't introduced that many, they start introducing more here
Season 6on't really remember anything particular from this season.
Season 7: began the more "serious" tone of the TMNT, praised by many fans, I though it was good but not the best, heavily influenced by X-Men. The side-season European Vacation should be viewed after S4 since that's its place in continuity and seems to have been written during that time.
Season 8: No more Shredder, Lord Dregg is the main villain, I was excited for fresh blood but boy did it suck.
Season9/10: They finally write the new characters much better and give us a great send of to the characters.

[newfan]

I noticed on the DVD's here that the later series are a higher certificate, that must be to go with the more serious tone.

I did see Lord Dregg already, the DVD's I have are the first 2 seasons but with 4 bonus eps so I watched the first disk and the last ep jumped to a much later ep, with Leo turning into a monster (something Dregg did to him). The design of the turtles was a little different as was April slightly.

[CyberCubed]

The Nick show had a lot of throwbacks to the OT.

For example the Squirrelnoids were basically the same Alien homage the Pizza Monsters were in the original toon:

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The Nick show had a lot of throwbacks to the OT.

For example the Squirrelnoids were basically the same Alien homage the Pizza Monsters were in the original toon:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-cont...er-Monster.jpg

Sure it's not just a coincidence and that they're just separate parodies of the Alien movies? If that really was the intent, why not just use the Pizza Monsters themselves?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by sdp

Season 6on't really remember anything particular from this season.

You have these episodes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenag...ies)_(season_6)

[IndigoErth]

So there is literally nothing known of the mutagen bomb and the cause of it and the apocalypse? The hell...? And here I was trying to void spoilers or any episode info because I figured the last few I'd see would touch on it. Um.


I dunno... That the series went out while still going pretty strong, what are the chances there may be a movie or special at some point that explains all this...? Hmm.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

So there is literally nothing known of the mutagen bomb and the cause of it and the apocalypse? The hell...? And here I was trying to void spoilers or any episode info because I figured the last few I'd see would touch on it. Um.


I dunno... That the series went out while still going pretty strong, what are the chances there may be a movie or special at some point that explains all this...? Hmm.

No explanation of the bomb. Ciro wants to tell more stories around it and pitched a movie for a story which would have taken place just before but Nick passed. Obviously at the mo they have the new show to focus on and get off the ground.

[CyberCubed]

The bomb didn't go off till years later, not sure why you would expect anything from the present day out of it.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by newfan

No explanation of the bomb. Ciro wants to tell more stories around it and pitched a movie for a story which would have taken place just before but Nick passed. Obviously the at mo they are getting their new show off the ground.

idiot shouldn't have said they only wanted to tell five seasons then. or, you know, should have spent more than 2 episodes building up to the damn thing. had your chance, now this series is a part of tmnt history thankfully.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

idiot shouldn't have said they only wanted to tell five seasons then. or, you know, should have spent more than 2 episodes building up to the damn thing. had your chance, now this series is a part of tmnt history thankfully.

I suppose even if he hadn't said 5 years to start, Nick still may have wanted to cancel anyway. As for the arc, we were told he did want to make it longer but Nick wouldn't give the 26 eps. (arguably yes they could have taken an ep from the halloween arc but I don't know where production was at that point)

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

idiot shouldn't have said they only wanted to tell five seasons then. or, you know, should have spent more than 2 episodes building up to the damn thing. had your chance, now this series is a part of tmnt history thankfully.

You're calling Ciro an idiot for not building up a mutagen bomb that happened years in the future and was just the explanation for the apocalypse?

Your trolling in the Nick section has gotten to almost parody levels at this point.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

One of the major points of the finale was to shroud how the apocalypse came to be in mystery until the end.

Plus, it was pretty obvious the Kraang did it. They used Mutagen, there was a technodrome in a flashback and were the main villains of the show from episode 1.

[sdp]

It doesn't matter how many episodes a producer wants, if the company paying for it wants to cancel before or add seasons they will do it. That's why we have many shows that end with cliffhangers, and shows that had a series finale and yet have another season or two even though most things had been wrapped up.

That's why most shows leave finales with some plots here and there so that they can work as a series finale and yet can still continue making new episodes. The OT had plenty of those, 2k3 meant to continue but they gave us the wedding "just in case" which was good. I'm sure if Viacom had said "one more season" then we would've gotten another season of "tales", and also that they weren't sure if they were getting season 4 which is why we got Shredder's defeat there and then, they might've thought it was their last season and were surprised to get a fifth one, it's logical since even S5 only got 20 episodes instead of the usual 26 that the show as used to.


As far as the mutagen bomb, I don't think it was ever meant to be explained, even though it's meant to be in continuity that episode was kind of done as an elseworlds story or alternate future and not to think much about it. An actual episode telling the story of the mutagen bomb would likely be boring. It's like in Star Wars, the idea of a prequel of how things got that way was cooler than the actual prequels, it's hard to tell those "prequel" stories that are hinted at.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

One of the major points of the finale was to shroud how the apocalypse came to be in mystery until the end.

Exactly. The whole arc was built in mystery and you don't need every little thing explained.

Vegita-san is literally trolling.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by newfan

No explanation of the bomb. Ciro wants to tell more stories around it and pitched a movie for a story which would have taken place just before but Nick passed. Obviously at the mo they have the new show to focus on and get off the ground.

Ohhh... an online comic that would have covered that would at least have been cool.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The bomb didn't go off till years later, not sure why you would expect anything from the present day out of it.

Not sure why you'd assume I'd already somehow know that the final arc I'd watch of this would all take place at present time.

[newfan]

[QUOTE=IndigoErth;1727154]Ohhh... an online comic that would have covered that would at least have been cool.

He's apparently been writing something with Fugitoid around that time point but that's all he said so no idea if anything will come of it.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

You're calling Ciro an idiot for not building up a mutagen bomb that happened years in the future and was just the explanation for the apocalypse?

Your trolling in the Nick section has gotten to almost parody levels at this point.

Ah, so I see the student has surpassed the master.