The future of Rise

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

We just gotta believe. A bunch of ninja turtles is only slighly more ridiculous then a man dressed like a bat fighting clowns and ninjas. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

Definitely wishful thinking.

Those other properties have occasionally been taken seriously for 5 minutes, which is what has allowed them to thrive for so long and constantly find a new audience with each passing generation.

TMNT, on the other hand, does nothing but try to pander to the new "lowest common denominator" and every "reinvention" does more harm than good. They turn off older fans and do nothing to create new ones. Sure, a few people fall into it by accident, but not that many.

Frankly, I'm fine with it. If "Rise" and the BayTurtles movies are indicative of what the Powers That Be want us to swallow from this franchise, then to be blunt the brand doesn't deserve to survive and I'll actually be kind of happy to see it retired. It should have been shut down over ten years ago, when we could still say "At least MOST TMNT things are Good." We'll never be able to say that again, and I'd rather see it pass away with grace and dignity rather than see a parade of diminishing returns aimed at a dumber and dumber audience every time out, which is what's been happening.

I've made my peace with the franchise. It's a zombie already anyways. I don't wanna be 80 years old and seeing some terrible "Rick & Morty"-style reboot of TMNT. I know it's a vast minority opinion, but a mercy killing would ultimately be for the absolute best. That way people could at least hang onto their GOOD memories without having them tainted by the deluge of unwatchable crap that's become the overwhelming legacy of this franchise.

Again, I am very well aware that this is a minority opinion. I prefer to see things go away while they're still Good. Toy Story should have stayed three movies, and TMNT should have been shelved in 2008. Probably even sooner, before "Fast Forward" came out.

They can keep doing toys, that's fine. Just no more movies or TV shows, please. I've seen enough to know I have seen too much.

[IndigoErth]

Already such a grouchy old man at such a young age. That's okay, some others of us will willingly keep watch and keep hope and call ya should any miracles happen.


Maybe Nick will never allow it. Maybe it's foolish. But there's worse, more detrimental things to be a hopeful fool for in life, I guess.

[Leo656]

Hey, it's been a rough decade since the Nick buyout. 10 straight years of nothing but junk would make anyone jaded!

But even that doesn't change the "kids don't care about TMNT" factor, which is the larger problem. It would be one thing if it were a recent phenomenon, but nobody under 20 cared about the 2003 reboot, either. Kids weren't the ones buying the toys and kids weren't the ones watching the cartoon. Fast forward to the last few years, same thing. The same people who watched religiously in 1989 are watching religiously in 2020. But their own kids, or their nieces and nephews? Nah, they've got better things to do. Outside of a handful, a very, VERY small handful, nobody under age 30 cares about Ninja Turtles.

The same people who cared about TMNT in 1989 are 99% the same people who still care. That's nice, but it's also a huge problem; that being, only a very small number of younger people who are exposed to it nowadays bother to stick around for the long haul. That could be because the products aren't good, and it could be because "kids these days" just plain don't get as invested in things. Frankly, I think it's a bit of both. I don't like how Nick has handled the brand but I kinda just think it doesn't have enough to get peoples' interest anymore. I'm pretty sure it was mostly a product of its time.

Those 80s/90s kids aren't going to be around forever, and the brand simply doesn't get its hooks into people the way it did when we were kids. Anyone can do the math from there. Brands that can't continuously breed a new audience with every generation end up dying off. TMNT hasn't ever managed to do that. Even when people try and "force-feed" it to their own kids, those kids don't care about it.

That tells me that one day, it's gonna go away. Maybe not like, "erased from cultural memory" like stuff like SilverHawks has been, but at some point there won't be any more projects in active development for the brand, and it will be a "Remember that?" kind of thing.

I'd think differently if I've seen even one strong example in 30 years of a "New Generation" firmly latching onto the brand for more than a minute, but that never, ever happens.

[IndigoErth]

I dunno, my nephew likes them. Maybe in ten years as a young teen he'll have given them up in favor of something else, or maybe he'll be busy discovering Mirage and borrowing my volumes, who knows. An aunt can hope. (But not via force.)

If he wants to watch Rise someday, that is up to him. Unfortunately, it's so hyper it would probably have him so wound up he'd be tearing down the walls, so right now that one is a solid NO. (Prob hardly the only kid banned from it for that reason...)



Who knows, someday after they've been mostly forgotten for a while, would be interesting if they ever had a renaissance AFTER copyrights die and they become public domain. Would be neat if people were to pick them back up and freely do everything they want with them, including whatever darker stuff no company would ever approve of in our time. Esp maybe some new independent films. Too bad we won't be alive to see if it ever happens.

[Leo656]

My niece also liked it a lot very, very briefly around 2008 or so... then she got really heavy into Alvin & The Chipmunks. She's now thoroughly ashamed of all of that.

See, I don't even think the type of products being released is the biggest factor. Some people think a "Batman Begins" type of thing would spark a renaissance and enti e a whole new group of people into liking TMNT, and I kind of don't even think that would work. Kids fall out of love a lot quicker than our generation did. They don't seem to have the capacity for nostalgia; "Old Things" are just Old. New versions of old things are seen by them as being desperate and embarrassing. You could put out the coolest TMNT thing ever and the younger crowd would still dismiss it.

That's why I have a very hard time believing that there will even be a "new generation" of passionate TMNT fans. A, there's nothing presently worth being passionate about, and B, kids these days just don't have it in them to establish that kind of connection to anything, period. They go through interests faster than chewing gum and absolutely do not care what their Dads or older brothers liked.

It is what it is. I mean if I'm wrong and TMNT is still gasping and wheezing along in 100 years, that's fine. I just can't realistically see that happening. Not a single "reboot" of the brand has consistently captured the younger demo and I can't see how that would ever change. Tastes are just too fickle anymore.

[srmff]

Just putting my two cents in. I would be a new fan in the last 25 years. I'm 22 and first got into TMNT when the 2003 series was airing on TV. I loved my Shredder action figure and also had a sticker book and information book on the series (still have them all). I actually ended up growing up on the 80's cartoon as well since the network in Ireland was airing both the 80's and 2003 show simultaneously. They used to always show old cartoons in the mornings like the Flintstones, He-Man, She-Ra, etc. Since I was watching in Ireland, I always knew which version was airing since the 80's one was called Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. Even though they were both very different interpretations of the turtles, I enjoyed watching both without one version tainting it for me. I did prefer the 2003 version since I like when there's an actual overall story with development and I preferred the characters. I still enjoyed the 80's show for its standalone episodes and a bit of fun. A bit like the way I'm viewing Rise at the moment. If I asked my mum, she'd probably say that the 80's was her favourite and Raphael her favourite even though I don't think she'd call the 2003 version of him her favourite.

I got into TMNT again when I was at home on my school holidays so I was about 16. I saw that a new series was airing and watched 'The Mousers Attack' episode. I got really into it and it actually caused me to chuckle now and again. I just fell in love with the characters again and loved the interactions between the brothers. I quickly caught up on all the episodes that I had missed and kept up to date with the US schedule. It also made me re-watch the 2003 show again. I re-watched the 2003 series with my brother who would have been about 19 at the time. I got him to watch the first three seasons of the 2012 series as well. The first season of the 2012 series was my favourite. I also tried to watch the 80s show again. I only got so far with that one.

I watched the first few episodes of Rise. My brother was not at all impressed with it though. I didn't hate it. However, I wasn't invested enough to keep up to date with its schedule and the fact that it wasn't always airing episodes in chronological order irked me. I'm catching up on the episodes and I'm actually enjoying them for what they are. For me, it's just a bit of fun that's not to be taken too seriously. Oddly, Leo is probably still my favourite even though he's completely different to any other version.

I have 3 close friends who I keep in regular contact with. They all speak of TMNT fondly with nostalgia. I asked them before who their favourite turtles were and all four of us had a different favourite. I found it interesting that we all went for the turtle who we were closest to personality-wise. I'm not as obsessed with TMNT as I was when I first came across the 2012 show. However, I think that I'll always come back to it. I have a few obsessions that seem to rotate but I always return to them at some point. I may always leave them for a while but I always seem to come back to them. I never had much time for the Bay movies (still haven't seen the second one) but they never caused me to dislike the series as a whole. I became disillusioned with Star Wars after seeing The Last Jedi in a way that never happened with TMNT. The disillusionment wore off and I started to feel better about it once I could just laugh at the Disney trilogy and consider it separate to the other films. I think that the reason for it is because every version of TMNT is a standalone that has no bearing on what has come before it unlike Star Wars where it was a continuation. I'm still happy to see new interpretations of the TMNT.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I think the movie is still supposedly happening, but I have a feeling it will depend greatly on just how much of it they already have in the can. And if/when it comes out I don't think it's going to be exactly the same thing they envisioned when they announced it. It will probably have some of the stuff that was outlined for the remaining unproduced episodes stuffed into it, for starters, in addition to whatever else they were going to use to wrap things up.

If they've already started working on it and it's at least partway done, it'll probably come out. If they'd barely started on it, then maybe not. I've said this before but multiple, conflicting TMNT movie projects happening at the same time or even close together doesn't fit their model at all. So if the production of the Rise movie didn't get far, it wouldn't be a shock to see them very quietly sweep it under the rug.

It does make me wonder if the original story for the movie was completely changed or at least altered a bit. I don't think they ever planned for Leo to become leader until the tail end of this show....and I was right. If this takes place after the show and he's the lead turtle again, then this had to have been reworked.

50/50 chance of this movie happening. On one hand, the ending alluded to the movie and the crew behind the show, kept tweeting "see you at the movies." On the other hand, with how they abruptly cut this season short, it won't be a shocker if it gets canned.

[IndigoErth]

I'll be rather surprised if the movie doesn't deal with the Utroms. Possible it was going to all along anyhow and they just cut out the one-off junk episodes and jumped to the intended, if rushed, ending.

Little confused by their original claim about the stand alone movie still being kind of a link between seasons, but maybe they meant seasons 2 & 3, before they figured out that 2 would be the last. I suppose even then it may have intended to bring in the Utroms, but might have then influenced a third season had it happened.

If it's Utom centered, then I want to see a Yokai identity crisis Yokai my ass, you're just a bunch of mutants. (Isn't the mystic city then just Mutant Town underground?)

The future of Rise

The future is now null.

[shredder orokusaki]

Yes it is the first series that dont have Utrom or any other aliens! That also one of the reasons it failed. Instead of Utroms creating the mutagen this time it was magical creatures like Draxum who did it.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

So Karai was in the finale right? Do you think they ever intended for her to be in the show or was it a last minute idea given the rushed finale? Cause I'm convinced they never intended for the Foot Recruit to become C.J. but did it because they figured since the show is ending, they were like "eh, screw it."

[IndigoErth]

I doubt it. Maybe Karai would have shown up more later, but she was technically a ghost of an ancestor and retired back to the spirit world (or whatever) after it was said and done.

Hard to guess if this was a very late idea or not... There was that one hint of ancestor stuff once, but not her.

I find the whole grandma Karai thing a rather weird choice and I'd have rather they made this a different character, but I did like the character though. The ghost of an ancestor showing up sometimes to guide them could have been an interesting concept for the series, but like many things ultimately got wasted.

I sorta think they intended the crazy girl to be Casey, due to the season 2 "Brownies" episode and her as the person behind the Brownie troop and the cookie brand being "Grandma CJ's." But if this was a rather late idea is anyone's guess. If they intended it all along and her being nameless all that time was supposed to be "fun," then they don't know what fun is. (As a woman, a female character not even having a name for all that time is kind of off putting. She was reoccurring enough that she could have mattered more, but mostly she was just some crazy b*tch.)

Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki

Yes it is the first series that dont have Utrom or any other aliens! That also one of the reasons it failed. Instead of Utroms creating the mutagen this time it was magical creatures like Draxum who did it.

Well, there's like dead Utroms. But like many things, this show took the pointless route of renaming the mutagen. Assuming it was mutagen...

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Like you said, hard to tell if this was a late idea or not. They sure had no qualms with bringing as few familiar characters into this only to radically change them. Seriously, Baxter Stockboy? W-what?! Shredder looks....maybe they should've stuck with Draxum. Though based on what I've watched, none of the new characters interested me, except maybe for the Foot Lieutenant and Brute as well as the idea of origami ninjas. Some have speculated that the brain creature might be Krang as opposed to an Utrom. I'd rather the Utrom, personally.

[IndigoErth]

If they do show up in the Netflix thing... Knowing this series, they'll axe Krang and the Utroms and rename them/him the Spawn of Cthulhu instead.


I actually kind of wish they stuck with Draxum. At least in some of the minor, skippable eps he's still there as the villain. The Shredder episodes are ultimately so few, what was even the point; they wanted to bring him in as the bigger villain, but they just barely bothered with him.

edit: Sure, season 2 was cut short, but it's not like most of the remaining ones wouldn't have been more of the random one off eps like the first half and the prior season were anyhow. Cutting it short probably did little aside from just cutting those out. Maybe Shredder would have still shown up at a mid season break to shake his fist at the Turtles, but probably then not again until the end we skipped to.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

When I saw that link to the twitter page of one of the creators listing episode ideas where Raph and Mike were going to crash Ghostbear's wedding and where Mike's brothers get turned into tots (which was done before in FW), those make me glad they never saw the light of day.

As far as the movie goes, I'm curious to see how Raph handles Leo being the leader as I'm sure there will be tension. But also how it will affect Donnie and Mikey as well since they were so used to looking up to their crazy but positive big brother and now that he's no longer in charge, they may never see him the same way. I'm sure Splinter had a reason for changing the team dynamic.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I'm sure Splinter had a reason for changing the team dynamic.

I dunno.... For a series that had Leo and Mikey playing waiter and they got paid in tiny toy unicorns that appeared to be alive, I don't think this show dabbles much in reasons.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

True, can't argue with that.