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Old 06-25-2016, 03:54 AM   #81
Refractive Reflections
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So just for my understanding and clarification on this issue , how would some of you counter against the right-side making these arguments for Brexit?

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Old 06-25-2016, 06:34 AM   #82
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So just for my understanding and clarification on this issue , how would some of you counter against the right-side making these arguments for Brexit?
The video is a whole mass of assumptions and cherry picked arguments, much in the same way the Remain camp was as well. Neither campaign was brilliant. For many things, we JUST DON'T KNOW, as they have to be negotiated now following the vote to Leave.

What both sides did was highlight the most obvious headlining grabbing positive or negative sides to their campaign (so for Leave, the supposed 350M a day that could go elsewhere like the NHS, and for Remain, how the economy would be thrown into another recession after analysis from practically all financial leading analysts). The choice really was between better the devil you know (Remain), or the complete uncertainty of what happens post leaving.

See my post on the previous page about the scenario of Texas leaving the Union about some of the things that could happen to us. COULD. I keep repeating, most are yet to be finalised because this is all what happens now once Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is invoked, and you've got up to two years to decide what happens to everything EU related in the country.

Berlusconi had enough scandal that I don't think him remaining in Italy was ever going to happen regardless. The UK has had 92% control over the laws passed in this country, only 8% came through Europe.

Can't argue about not recognising the MEPs. Then again, you ask people here to recognise their local MP, the same would happen. People tend to just vote for the person representing their party, not the person themselves.

Turkey has to pass 32 criteria points on a list to be able to join the EU. They've barely passed 2 so far. Yes, he claims about EU corruption in the video and that's true, but given the UK has a veto vote while being in, I think we'd pay close attention to whether Turkey had really passed all 32 when they apply.

EU migrants have to be in the UK for at least 3 months before they can claim any benefits, so they'd need enough money to last them that long. Can't see that happening with any of the people escaping Syria et al, if they happen to then somehow get a passport in another EU country.

We get roughly half the money back that we pay in via grants and subsidies to various parts of the country (like Wales, amazed they voted out), so while we contribute 350M per week, the actually net total we contribute is more like 160M per week. So if we stop contributing, then theoretically we would STILL have to supply some of our own money to the places getting the EU funding, otherwise THEY'D DIE! So the amount is a misnomer.

And just look at the markets and their value once Remain became clear it had lost. They dropped a lot. Wiped out more value than we'd paid into the EU since we started. We get tariff free access trade to other EU countries, and that adds to the economy MORE than what we pay in. Video doesn't mention that of course. Non-EU companies invest in the UK so they can have better access to markets in the rest of Europe. Plus we can access the best talent in the EU to hire in our companies.

It also doesn't quite affect us as much because we stayed out of the Euro and kept the pound. We're not bound by the currency fortunes. That's why we've not had austerity as bad. If we were Spain, or Portugal, or Greece, or Italy, then leaving would not be very surprising! The governments and population saddled themselves with so much debt in the 1990s once they had access to Euro based loans, it was stupid.

Can't argue too much about the fishing rights, bar the fact that we were overfishing the areas anyhow, EU or no EU control.

Arguing about Switzerland is not bad, but the problem is, a lot of people voted Leave in the UK because of the free movement of EU migrants to the UK. Guess what, that's one aspect Switzerland has to abide by as well for their trade agreements. And they have a greater percentage of EU migrants in the country than we do here.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:14 AM   #83
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You can say a lot of things about Donald Trump, but don't be dumb; Trump is an excellent businessman. That's why he's gotten as far as he has.
Seriously incorrect. He was born rich and inherited his father's real estate empire -- that's why he's gotten as far as he has. Past that, his actual record is mediocre at best and he's famously driven business after business into the ground. Here's a list of several of his failures. And here's a writeup about how mediocre his record really is.

In fact, there's a very strong argument that Trump would have more money today if he'd just invested his inheritance and not pursued his business ambitions at all.

He's a narcissist and a con man whose real business is getting attention, and at that, I'll give you, he's truly talented. But even that has recently cost him quite a bit financially.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:17 AM   #84
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Its weird to think Trump has always existed in our lifetimes but being kids we didn't realize he existed until the early 2000's.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:22 AM   #85
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Its weird to think Trump has always existed in our lifetimes but being kids we didn't realize he existed until the early 2000's.
probably when they watched that Apprentice TV Show.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:24 AM   #86
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Its weird to think Trump has always existed in our lifetimes but being kids we didn't realize he existed until the early 2000's.
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probably when they watched that Apprentice TV Show.
Or Home Alone 2: Lost in New York.

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Old 06-25-2016, 11:32 AM   #87
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Trump looks old in 1992. That was 30 years ago.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:50 AM   #88
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Everyone goes after Trump on this thread but what about Hillary? Honestly she's probably even worse, she may be experienced but she's so god damn corrupt and evil with her use of power. I'm really hoping for an independent for president, preferably Jill Stien, although Johnson is better than both Trump and Clinton.
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Old 06-25-2016, 12:02 PM   #89
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Its weird to think Trump has always existed in our lifetimes but being kids we didn't realize he existed until the early 2000's.
TMNT had like 2 different Trump parody characters back in the 90's.


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Everyone goes after Trump on this thread but what about Hillary? Honestly she's probably even worse, she may be experienced but she's so god damn corrupt and evil with her use of power. I'm really hoping for an independent for president, preferably Jill Stien, although Johnson is better than both Trump and Clinton.
Whatever your opinion of her is, she's at least qualified, educated and not uber abrasive.

But yeah, I'm a registered Libertarian so Johnson/Weld for me.
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Old 06-25-2016, 12:37 PM   #90
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TMNT had like 2 different Trump parody characters back in the 90's.




Whatever your opinion of her is, she's at least qualified, educated and not uber abrasive.

But yeah, I'm a registered Libertarian so Johnson/Weld for me.
He is not anything like Donald Trump,but is name is a clear pardoy of his in the 1990 episode, "Raphael Meets His Match".
http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/MacDonald_Crump

There is also Donald J. Lofty, the elderly business tycoon from the same stretch of episodes in 1990. Like Crump, Lofty has not actual similarities to the person Donald J. Trump.

Agreed on the Johnson statement considering the lack of choices.
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Old 06-25-2016, 03:34 PM   #91
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You're the one to talk. You're not even worth anything.
Missed this in my Trump tantrum. But yeah, get bent kid.

Whereas you frequently show your ass as one of the biggest buffoons of the fan base, Powder is a fount of TMNT knowledge, one of our best artists (he's collaborated with several Mirage guys), a talented musician and a really funny, self-aware guy.

Anyways, back to business...

This just in, Donald Trump has announced Caitlyn Jenner as his VP.
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Old 06-25-2016, 03:48 PM   #92
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Missed this in my Trump tantrum. But yeah, get bent kid.

Whereas you frequently show your ass as one of the biggest buffoons of the fan base, Powder is a fount of TMNT knowledge, one of our best artists (he's collaborated with several Mirage guys), a talented musician and a really funny, self-aware guy.

Anyways, back to business...

This just in, Donald Trump has announced Caitlyn Jenner as his VP.
I had to go fact-check that on Google because, well hell... it's Trump, so who the hell even knows anymore.
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Old 06-25-2016, 04:00 PM   #93
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I had to go fact-check that on Google because, well hell... it's Trump, so who the hell even knows anymore.
Lol, is there anyone I could have said that would have come across as too ridiculous? I think not.

For real though, I'm betting on either Putin, Snooki and/or J-Wow, Kevin Eastman, Kevin Hart or the ghost of Herbert Hoover.
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Old 06-25-2016, 04:09 PM   #94
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Lol, is there anyone I could have said that would have come across as too ridiculous? I think not.

For real though, I'm betting on either Putin, Snooki and/or J-Wow, Kevin Eastman, Kevin Hart or the ghost of Herbert Hoover.
I predict he chooses Pamela Anderson. It seems like something Trump would do.
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Old 06-25-2016, 04:54 PM   #95
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I have read reports suggesting he wants Ted Cruz to get wider appeal. It would be along with the tradition of picking a running mate based on whoever finishes runner up in the primaries. It is not always the case,but a common practice. However, whoever he chooses will do little for him in the positive.
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:00 PM   #96
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Everyone goes after Trump on this thread but what about Hillary? Honestly she's probably even worse, she may be experienced but she's so god damn corrupt and evil with her use of power. I'm really hoping for an independent for president, preferably Jill Stien, although Johnson is better than both Trump and Clinton.
The president does not have absolute power. I never understood why people worry themselves to death over the president. There's a system of checks and balances, the president can't do whatever they want.

We sat through Bush for 8 years, people, I don't know about the rest of you but I got along just fine in those 8 years. Granted I was still a teenager at the time but still.
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:01 PM   #97
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Looks like the voters are now having doubts about the Brexit, and they now #Regrexit
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/politi...xit/index.html
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:07 PM   #98
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The president does not have absolute power. I never understood why people worry themselves to death over the president. There's a system of checks and balances, the president can't do whatever they want.

We sat through Bush for 8 years, people, I don't know about the rest of you but I got along just fine in those 8 years. Granted I was still a teenager at the time but still.
Yeah. Either way, with Trump or Clinton as President, I'm sure there will be ample opportunity for him / her to be at least impeached.
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:11 PM   #99
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I have read reports suggesting he wants Ted Cruz to get wider appeal. It would be along with the tradition of picking a running mate based on whoever finishes runner up in the primaries. It is not always the case,but a common practice. However, whoever he chooses will do little for him in the positive.
Will never happen. They hate each other.


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The president does not have absolute power. I never understood why people worry themselves to death over the president. There's a system of checks and balances, the president can't do whatever they want.

We sat through Bush for 8 years, people, I don't know about the rest of you but I got along just fine in those 8 years. Granted I was still a teenager at the time but still.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/03/do...e-constitution

Quick read.
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:15 PM   #100
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Will never happen. They hate each other.




http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/03/do...e-constitution

Quick read.
Never said that Cruz would agree to it. Just saying that is what his camp is floating around as the "best interest" pick. Only if CyloncsKlingonsDaleksOhMy agrees to be Donald Trump's running mate would I vote for Donald Trump anyway.
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