The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > Nick TMNT Cartoon Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2017, 05:10 AM   #61
Ninja Tiptup
Mad Scientist
 
Ninja Tiptup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,316
I agree with some sentiments here. This final showdown really ought to have been paced better. While Donatello got some spotlight and a lesson in the "Heart of Evil" they could have dealt with that in less than an episode and gave the demon's end game more space to breathe.

I really feel they could have at one point had Kavaxas mention the requirements for his reign before this episode. If not outright saying what they are then at least eluding to them.

I suppose you could argue they were too caught off guard when they encountered Kavaxas the first time but they seemed to do alright fighting the next two times, they lost the fights but not as badly as the first time.

The explanation for the mutant hobos works for me. I wondered if Super Shredder ooze could cause some wacked out mutations for other people/creatures.

I'm amused by them reusing the China Town ghost for this and I guess extending Tatsu's use wasn't a bad call but I also agree there were plenty of dead foes they could have included here. The whole spirits assaulting the city thing was rather short-lived.

I suppose I like that Shredder dragged Kavaxas back into the underworld. It doesn't make up for much of the terrible things he did but it's something.

That whole "look toward the light" thing felt needless.

This whole thing felt like a stupid reason to temporarily revive Shredder and Bradford and it's the last we'll see of Xever and Tiger Claw on top of that? What the shell? That's no way to send these characters off with a hand wave and a sudden truce. I do prefer they live on instead of die at the hands of the turtles but if they're going to live on and reform, I'd like to see their character arcs lead to them have an epiphany that doesn't feel so sudden and convenient. If they were going to put in no effort in giving these guys a worthwhile send-off then actually killing them off in Owari would have been better. In this case Xever is like "this is getting too wack for me, I'm out" and Tiger Claw just realizes there's no point in fighting anymore because his plan to resurrect his master doesn't pan out? It seems sloppy if nothing else.

Nice to have Splinter show up briefly. That gave his death a bit more closure.

Definitely some loose ends remaining from this arc such a TON of mutant hobos with some Shredder in them and I doubt they'll even be mentioned again.
__________________
It's weird to be normal, and it's normal to be weird.
Ninja Tiptup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 08:13 AM   #62
TigerClaw
Mutant Tiger
 
TigerClaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hialeah, Florida, USA
Posts: 10,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup View Post
I agree with some sentiments here. This final showdown really ought to have been paced better. While Donatello got some spotlight and a lesson in the "Heart of Evil" they could have dealt with that in less than an episode and gave the demon's end game more space to breathe.

I really feel they could have at one point had Kavaxas mention the requirements for his reign before this episode. If not outright saying what they are then at least eluding to them.

I suppose you could argue they were too caught off guard when they encountered Kavaxas the first time but they seemed to do alright fighting the next two times, they lost the fights but not as badly as the first time.

The explanation for the mutant hobos works for me. I wondered if Super Shredder ooze could cause some wacked out mutations for other people/creatures.

I'm amused by them reusing the China Town ghost for this and I guess extending Tatsu's use wasn't a bad call but I also agree there were plenty of dead foes they could have included here. The whole spirits assaulting the city thing was rather short-lived.

I suppose I like that Shredder dragged Kavaxas back into the underworld. It doesn't make up for much of the terrible things he did but it's something.

That whole "look toward the light" thing felt needless.

This whole thing felt like a stupid reason to temporarily revive Shredder and Bradford and it's the last we'll see of Xever and Tiger Claw on top of that? What the shell? That's no way to send these characters off with a hand wave and a sudden truce. I do prefer they live on instead of die at the hands of the turtles but if they're going to live on and reform, I'd like to see their character arcs lead to them have an epiphany that doesn't feel so sudden and convenient. If they were going to put in no effort in giving these guys a worthwhile send-off then actually killing them off in Owari would have been better. In this case Xever is like "this is getting too wack for me, I'm out" and Tiger Claw just realizes there's no point in fighting anymore because his plan to resurrect his master doesn't pan out? It seems sloppy if nothing else.

Nice to have Splinter show up briefly. That gave his death a bit more closure.

Definitely some loose ends remaining from this arc such a TON of mutant hobos with some Shredder in them and I doubt they'll even be mentioned again.
Its one of my grievances about this show, things like, Whatever happen to Mutagen Man, Newtralizer, or Pigeon Pete?

I hope all will be addressed in Season 5.
__________________
TigerClaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 08:16 AM   #63
Vegita-San
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,704
or, 'they've got anti mutagen..why don't they clean up some of the sadder mutants like fish face?'
Vegita-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 09:14 AM   #64
victory_angel
Foot Elite
 
victory_angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ca
Posts: 2,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup View Post
I agree with some sentiments here. This final showdown really ought to have been paced better. While Donatello got some spotlight and a lesson in the "Heart of Evil" they could have dealt with that in less than an episode and gave the demon's end game more space to breathe.

I really feel they could have at one point had Kavaxas mention the requirements for his reign before this episode. If not outright saying what they are then at least eluding to them.

I suppose you could argue they were too caught off guard when they encountered Kavaxas the first time but they seemed to do alright fighting the next two times, they lost the fights but not as badly as the first time.

The explanation for the mutant hobos works for me. I wondered if Super Shredder ooze could cause some wacked out mutations for other people/creatures.

I'm amused by them reusing the China Town ghost for this and I guess extending Tatsu's use wasn't a bad call but I also agree there were plenty of dead foes they could have included here. The whole spirits assaulting the city thing was rather short-lived.

I suppose I like that Shredder dragged Kavaxas back into the underworld. It doesn't make up for much of the terrible things he did but it's something.

That whole "look toward the light" thing felt needless.

This whole thing felt like a stupid reason to temporarily revive Shredder and Bradford and it's the last we'll see of Xever and Tiger Claw on top of that? What the shell? That's no way to send these characters off with a hand wave and a sudden truce. I do prefer they live on instead of die at the hands of the turtles but if they're going to live on and reform, I'd like to see their character arcs lead to them have an epiphany that doesn't feel so sudden and convenient. If they were going to put in no effort in giving these guys a worthwhile send-off then actually killing them off in Owari would have been better. In this case Xever is like "this is getting too wack for me, I'm out" and Tiger Claw just realizes there's no point in fighting anymore because his plan to resurrect his master doesn't pan out? It seems sloppy if nothing else.

Nice to have Splinter show up briefly. That gave his death a bit more closure.

Definitely some loose ends remaining from this arc such a TON of mutant hobos with some Shredder in them and I doubt they'll even be mentioned again.
They were hinting at Kavaxas betraying Tigerclaw with the way he would sarcastically or resentfully call him Master. And also in heart of evil TC did point out that Kavaxas was becoming unusually invested in the Shredders reserection. And Kavaxas just throws him a dirty look.
__________________
victory_angel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 10:51 AM   #65
PApagreg
Stone Warrior
 
PApagreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 804
Yeahh I kinda dislike this episode, while I did think Splinter's temporary reunion with his family was heartwarming(if a little bit corny) everything else felt like a fart. We had all this buildup to a demon invasion and Kavaxas betraying Tiger Claw but just like Bebop, Rocksteady and a lesser extent Baxter he gets b$tched by Shredder. Whats worse is the treatment with Tiger Claw, not only does he just commits a truce off screen(so after summoning a demon I guess he just quits or something) but Alopex the character who is important to Tiger Claw's past doesn't even show up in this episode.
__________________
PApagreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 11:02 AM   #66
Vicky82
Foot Elite
 
Vicky82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dunstable, UK
Posts: 4,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApagreg View Post
Yeahh I kinda dislike this episode, while I did think Splinter's temporary reunion with his family was heartwarming(if a little bit corny) everything else felt like a fart. We had all this buildup to a demon invasion and Kavaxas betraying Tiger Claw but just like Bebop, Rocksteady and a lesser extent Baxter he gets b$tched by Shredder. Whats worse is the treatment with Tiger Claw, not only does he just commits a truce off screen(so after summoning a demon I guess he just quits or something) but Alopex the character who is important to Tiger Claw's past doesn't even show up in this episode.
Baxter wasn't in this episode.

Where did you get the idea that Alopex was going to be in this episode. There wasn't any indication that she was going to appear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
or, 'they've got anti mutagen..why don't they clean up some of the sadder mutants like fish face?'
Because Fishface is a villain, he wants to change back to human, changing him back will give him satisfaction, staying as Fishface is his punishment.

It was different with Baxter because he wanted to stay as a fly, so changing him back to human is like punishment for him.
__________________
My heart!!!! One of my favourite moments.


Last edited by Vicky82; 04-10-2017 at 11:31 AM.
Vicky82 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 11:30 AM   #67
PApagreg
Stone Warrior
 
PApagreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky82 View Post
Baxter wasn't in this episode.

Where did you get the idea that Alopex was going to be in this episode. There wasn't any indication that she was going to appear.

I ment that Baxter had potential to become independent but ultimately became Shredder's b$itch same with Bebop and Rocksteady


Also with this being Tiger Claw's final episode I was hoping Alopex would at least get a cameo or mention, hell they brought back Ho Chan but apparently Alopex is chopped liver. Though looking back maybe I should've said that Alopex should've been at the beginning of this arc.
__________________
PApagreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 11:33 AM   #68
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApagreg View Post
Yeahh I kinda dislike this episode, while I did think Splinter's temporary reunion with his family was heartwarming(if a little bit corny) everything else felt like a fart. We had all this buildup to a demon invasion and Kavaxas betraying Tiger Claw but just like Bebop, Rocksteady and a lesser extent Baxter he gets b$tched by Shredder. Whats worse is the treatment with Tiger Claw, not only does he just commits a truce off screen(so after summoning a demon I guess he just quits or something) but Alopex the character who is important to Tiger Claw's past doesn't even show up in this episode.
They did an excellent build up to the invasion, and all the henchmen were caught in the crossfire.

As for Alopex her VA said she was going to be in a Season 5 episode, so we'll wait and see.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 11:40 AM   #69
Vegita-San
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky82 View Post
Baxter wasn't in this episode.

Where did you get the idea that Alopex was going to be in this episode. There wasn't any indication that she was going to appear.



Because Fishface is a villain, he wants to change back to human, changing him back will give him satisfaction, staying as Fishface is his punishment.

It was different with Baxter because he wanted to stay as a fly, so changing him back to human is like punishment for him.
which of course was never really brought up before that..and probably wouldn't get brought up again if he returns in season 5.

more weird writing.

I also wonder how fish face, let alone tiger claw knew the story of the cult mutants at all... as far as we know, none of them talk .

oy.
Vegita-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 11:43 AM   #70
Vicky82
Foot Elite
 
Vicky82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dunstable, UK
Posts: 4,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApagreg View Post
I ment that Baxter had potential to become independent but ultimately became Shredder's b$itch same with Bebop and Rocksteady


Also with this being Tiger Claw's final episode I was hoping Alopex would at least get a cameo or mention, hell they brought back Ho Chan but apparently Alopex is chopped liver. Though looking back maybe I should've said that Alopex should've been at the beginning of this arc.
Bebop and Rocksteady were forced to join the Foot Clan. As they disappeared during the final battle we could still see them again in other episodes and will be independent because the Foot Clan is gone

Alopex probably can still appear, she doesn't have to appear in the same episode as Tiger Claw, they arn't joined at the hip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
which of course was never really brought up before that..and probably wouldn't get brought up again if he returns in season 5.

more weird writing.

I also wonder how fish face, let alone tiger claw knew the story of the cult mutants at all... as far as we know, none of them talk .

oy.
It wasn't weird, it was a twist to the story, that's why we never heard about Baxter wanting to stay as a fly.

The cult mutants probably just took Tiger Claw to where mutagen spillage was and Tiger Claw guessed what happened.
__________________
My heart!!!! One of my favourite moments.


Last edited by Vicky82; 04-10-2017 at 11:54 AM.
Vicky82 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 01:45 PM   #71
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky82 View Post
It wasn't weird, it was a twist to the story, that's why we never heard about Baxter wanting to stay as a fly.

The cult mutants probably just took Tiger Claw to where mutagen spillage was and Tiger Claw guessed what happened.
I wouldn't bother replying to Vegita-san in regards to the Nick show. As you've seen by his posts he makes up stuff that never happened in the show and then believes his own BS. This is the same guy who keeps saying characters are forgotten or that Shredder was "barely the villain" of the series, whatever the hell that means.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 02:05 PM   #72
Vegita-San
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky82 View Post


It wasn't weird, it was a twist to the story, that's why we never heard about Baxter wanting to stay as a fly.

The cult mutants probably just took Tiger Claw to where mutagen spillage was and Tiger Claw guessed what happened.
From my point of view, it's either bad writing, or just plain bad show running.

If you want people to care about these characters, you have to set it up before hand.

Even though baxter was a true jack in the box in the 4Kids series, I truly felt sorry for him at a certain point, because he no longer deserved all the harsh treatment befell upon him and it was just gratuitous violence..

I felt sorry for Fred Wolf Baxter, because he was never really evil or ambitious to start off with and just fell off in the wrong crowd.

this baxter is just an idiot with no character development.
Vegita-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 02:13 PM   #73
Vicky82
Foot Elite
 
Vicky82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dunstable, UK
Posts: 4,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
From my point of view, it's either bad writing, or just plain bad show running.

If you want people to care about these characters, you have to set it up before hand.

Even though baxter was a true jack in the box in the 4Kids series, I truly felt sorry for him at a certain point, because he no longer deserved all the harsh treatment befell upon him and it was just gratuitous violence..

I felt sorry for Fred Wolf Baxter, because he was never really evil or ambitious to start off with and just fell off in the wrong crowd.

this baxter is just an idiot with no character development.
Ok if you think plot twists is bad writing then you shouldn't watch the show at all or any show for that matter and your wrong about Baxter having no Character development, he had plenty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
I wouldn't bother replying to Vegita-san in regards to the Nick show. As you've seen by his posts he makes up stuff that never happened in the show and then believes his own BS. This is the same guy who keeps saying characters are forgotten or that Shredder was "barely the villain" of the series, whatever the hell that means.
Yeah I know he/she is an idiot but sometimes I like to reply to their stupid comments.

Think i'll keep him/her on ignore for the time being, it's a shame they can still see my posts though.
__________________
My heart!!!! One of my favourite moments.

Vicky82 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 02:18 PM   #74
Vegita-San
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,704
lol...

so, someone disagreeing with someone else is now cause for name calling i see ;o)...

funny, I now feel like that's a great idea. old ignore button it goes ;o)...

smh

sometimes i wonder why i bother hanging around this place anymore ;o)
Vegita-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:17 PM   #75
GoldMutant
Rest. In. Peace.
 
GoldMutant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New England
Posts: 1,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky82 View Post
Ok if you think plot twists is bad writing then you shouldn't watch the show at all or any show for that matter and you're wrong about Baxter having no Character development, he had plenty.
To quote Cube: "LOL, what?" He's not developed at all. To reiterate what I've said before, read this: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...0&postcount=13 (quoting would enlarge the discussion by a bit much otherwise)
__________________
Quote:
"It's only natural for living creatures to fight to protect their own lives. But what makes us human is that we fight for others. But who do you fight for? How hard must you fight...? That's the true measure of what human life is worth. Even when the battle's over, and the bonds that connect us are severed... We always return... Time and time again." -Phoenix Wright
GoldMutant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:19 PM   #76
Vegita-San
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,704
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!
Vegita-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:25 PM   #77
FredWolfLeonardo
Mad Scientist
 
FredWolfLeonardo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Fourside
Posts: 1,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!
Even though I am a big fan of the Nick series, I will admit that in my opinion, the biggest flaw of the show is certain characters being drowned out due to the background noise of the references, new characters making characters like Baxter less impactful. In the OT on the other hand, everytime he appeared, Baxter completely stole the show but thats because the show was very simple and didn't have many side characters, so the one's that did appear left quite a mark when they appeared. Guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. If your show has many references, new characters and less of an original identity, you are bound to get a lower impact from some of the characters.
FredWolfLeonardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:31 PM   #78
Vegita-San
Foot Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,704
I just feel like the FW show and the 4Kids show had not only better writers that where ALLOWED to run things the way they wanted (for the most part, until playmates stepped in)...but also just knew what they wanted to do more. which is tell fun stories.


with this series, it just seems so over the place that it's hard to have any impact at all.

Hell, they destroyed the entire earth in season 3 and then un did it the next episode, so it left no impact at all! i mean, that' just bad shock value stuff!

you're also left wondering what else is going to happen, so you don't really have time to sit back and appreciate all the weirdness cause it comes at you rapid fire left and right and left and right, and either never gets resolved, or gets resolved quickly with no setup or exposition and boom. done.


That's why I like older shows that didn't NEED to be grand to be fun. they set EVERYTHING up in the first 30 minutes of the pilot and that was the status quo. it was up to the writers to make the status quo fun and memorable.

now a days, things have to be grand, shocking, dramatic, well planned out,inter connected, and it just makes things way more complicated than it needs to be and things suffer because of it
Vegita-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:31 PM   #79
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!
What the hell are you talking about? Baxter appeared as many times as he needed to and he worked mostly in the lab on Shredder's mutagen.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:35 PM   #80
CyberCubed
Overlord
 
CyberCubed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 30,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegita-San View Post
I just feel like the FW show and the 4Kids show had not only better writers that where ALLOWED to run things the way they wanted (for the most part, until playmates stepped in)...but also just knew what they wanted to do more. which is tell fun stories.
More idiocy. I love the original cartoon, but it had no real plot or continuing storylines to speak of besides minor stuff. They were literally just making random episodes as they went along till the show ended.

Quote:
Hell, they destroyed the entire earth in season 3 and then un did it the next episode, so it left no impact at all! i mean, that' just bad shock value stuff!
Do you actually watch this show? Fugitoid said the Earth would still be destroyed unless they stopped the Triceratons, it didn't matter the Earth was restored. No impact? The whole goddamn space arc resulted from it.

Quote:
That's why I like older shows that didn't NEED to be grand to be fun. they set EVERYTHING up in the first 30 minutes of the pilot and that was the status quo. it was up to the writers to make the status quo fun and memorable.

now a days, things have to be grand, shocking, dramatic, well planned out,inter connected, and it just makes things way more complicated than it needs to be and things suffer because of it
You're basically comparing episodic shows to shows with continuity. There's nothing wrong with either approach.

It seems to me you lack the mental comprehension to follow a show with continuing storylines where things aren't wrapped up nicely in 22 minutes. If that's the case it's obviously your problem you can't handle storylines that continue over a season.
CyberCubed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.