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Old 04-14-2017, 04:43 AM   #1
Nortock Diab
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TMNT Volume 4 #29 FAN PRINT

Hi everybody

I wanted to let you know about a project I have in mind which consists in reprinting TMNT vol.4 #29.

As you know, this is one of the rarest and most sought after TMNT book and for quite some time I realized that the only way to get a physical copy would be to print it myself.

Scans are legally available on the web and I was able to print a copy that I am quite satisfied with (even if scans are not of the highest resolution).
You can find some photos of the only existing copy below:
Blank sketch page is filled with a Jim Lawson drawing related to a possible conclusion to Volume 4.
This drawing was commissioned by a fan and never saw print in a book before (Jim talks about it on his Facebook page).

Now that the pages layout is done, other fans like me could benefit it.
Thus, I plan to print a batch of this book for any people interested in a copy.

I told the fan who owns the Jim Lawson drawing about this plan and he gave me his blessing for using the "Possible conclusion to Volume 4" in my project. In my opinion that is a very cool added value that makes this print more unique.

The price per copy shall not be higher than $10. For your information, I do not plan on making profit with this print. Price paid for a copy will only cover printing and shipments costs. This is very important for me. The idea is mainly to fill the gap in fans collections.

I'll be happy to answer any questions !
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:11 AM   #2
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Thats all copyrighted artwork except maybe the fans commission... and illegal to print your own. Any place thats printing these is breaking the law. Unless you have the printer and are doing it yourself.... which then, its still not legal...
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:32 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by mrmaczaps View Post
Thats all copyrighted artwork except maybe the fans commission... and illegal to print your own. Any place thats printing these is breaking the law. Unless you have the printer and are doing it yourself.... which then, its still not legal...
Lol, what a cuck. If Mirage actually gave a ****, they'd have made a second printing.
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:32 PM   #4
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I'm in for one.
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Old 04-15-2017, 01:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaczaps
Thats all copyrighted artwork except maybe the fans commission... and illegal to print your own. Any place thats printing these is breaking the law. Unless you have the printer and are doing it yourself.... which then, its still not legal...
I understand your concern. Yet my belief is that there is a tolerance to encourage the fan community to take part in the process.
Thanks to this we saw an ending to Volume 3, Odyssey, a reprint of an official story only published in Spain and many others.

In my case we are talking about a book legally available on the internet, not currently available in a physical copy from the publisher and which will likely not see print for years.
As stated above, this project not being profitable is mandatory in my opinion and I will pay a close attention to this point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder
I'm in for one.
Thanks!
I will let you know when I need more information.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nortock Diab View Post
I understand your concern. Yet my belief is that there is a tolerance to encourage the fan community to take part in the process.
Thanks to this we saw an ending to Volume 3, Odyssey, a reprint of an official story only published in Spain and many others.

In my case we are talking about a book legally available on the internet, not currently available in a physical copy from the publisher and which will likely not see print for years.
As stated above, this project not being profitable is mandatory in my opinion and I will pay a close attention to this point.




Thanks!
I will let you know when I need more information.
Theres a difference between a full fan made comic and taking digital copies of a book that has been published and making your own printing of it. The book/artwork may be legally available online for download but that does not mean you can legally print out copies to sell. Its still copyrighted material. Someone did this a few years back on here and I said the same thing then too.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaczaps View Post
Theres a difference between a full fan made comic and taking digital copies of a book that has been published and making your own printing of it. The book/artwork may be legally available online for download but that does not mean you can legally print out copies to sell. Its still copyrighted material. Someone did this a few years back on here and I said the same thing then too.
There is no difference, jackass. Either way, it's not for profit. TMNT and all of its characters are trademarked, so selling your own fan comic is just as "illegal".

But if he's only being reimbursed, plus the whole issue is online FOR FREE, there is no crime. Stop crying.
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:16 PM   #8
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Interested in a copy if you end up doing this. I'm trying to complete my comic collection and this will work to fill the gap!
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:26 PM   #9
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I'd love to get one, but do you accept money orders? That's the only form of payment that I have, since I don't own a credit card.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesyKitty
Interested in a copy if you end up doing this. I'm trying to complete my comic collection and this will work to fill the gap!
Thanks!
I'll give you more info in due time but everything is going well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DestronMirage22
I'd love to get one, but do you accept money orders? That's the only form of payment that I have, since I don't own a credit card.
I'm sure we'll figure something out. I sent you a PM.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:18 AM   #11
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Keep me in the loop too! Still kicking myself for scoffing at the $10 price tag on a big stack of #29s that I could have bought one of and got signed by Peter Laird IN PERSON at a tiny FCBD signing way back in 2008. If this goes well you should consider doing #30 too, also hard to find!
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:14 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by funatic
Keep me in the loop too! Still kicking myself for scoffing at the $10 price tag on a big stack of #29s that I could have bought one of and got signed by Peter Laird IN PERSON at a tiny FCBD signing way back in 2008.
Too bad...
I'm glad I am of some help though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by funatic
If this goes well you should consider doing #30 too, also hard to find!
As I have #30 myself, this will not be my next move.
However I have other printing plans. Particularly a 10-page story that absolutely never saw print elsewhere than in its own country. It will be fun .
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:45 AM   #13
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Everything is on track!
Enough people showed their interest.
I now only have to update the file to send it to the printer and decide the exact print run.

I will then let you know about the cost per copy and shipment options.

In the meantime you can read this lovely testimony of a lucky fan who found an original copy.
Enjoy!
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:25 PM   #14
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depending on the cost i'd consider getting a copy.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:15 AM   #15
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Exact cost will be known pretty soon and there will be some spare copies!
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:50 AM   #16
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Here are some news.

File has been updated and is now ready to be printed.
Print run for this fan edition will be 20 copies.
That will cover already interested people and a few fans who were late for the party.

Exact cost per copy is consequently US $8.50 / EU 7,50€.

There are 2 main shipping options:
  • No tracking #, may take some time, very cheap: US $2.50 / EU 1,30€
  • Tracking #, probably faster, not as economic: US $10.80 / EU 8,70€

Once I have the copies, I will PM each of you regarding the shipping address and the payment.

And of course a photo of these little beauties will be posted here!

Last edited by Nortock Diab; 05-01-2017 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:02 AM   #17
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Hi there!

Some really good news here.
22 copies were printed and are now safe at home.

Printer made a great job and small errors from the prototype are corrected (cutting and folding).
As said before, scans could be of a higher res but still, this print is very neat.

I am now going to contact each one of you who expressed your interest to organize payment and shipment.

Below some photos as promised. I love these guys .



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Old 05-09-2017, 06:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
Lol, what a cuck. If Mirage actually gave a ****, they'd have made a second printing.
Mirage, as it was before, no longer exists. But it's because they care (cleaning up your language) that we got the 1,000 copies that we did when they were still actively publishing. Poor sales didn't make it feasible to do a wide release of the last issues, so they were published on a small scale so that the small but loyal group of fans could keep reading the story. This is the reason they eventually published #31 and #32 well after Mirage closed its doors. If you think the guys at Mirage did it for the money, you're nuts. I appreciate that we got what we got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
There is no difference, jackass. Either way, it's not for profit. TMNT and all of its characters are trademarked, so selling your own fan comic is just as "illegal".

But if he's only being reimbursed, plus the whole issue is online FOR FREE, there is no crime. Stop crying.
This issue isn't whether he's making money or not...it's dealing in copyrighted material. Copyright law has a lot of wiggle room built in for fan art, fan fiction, and parody. This is why you can go to any comic convention and see artists selling prints featuring copyrighted characters (TMNT, Spider-man, Batman, etc.) and not get sued to oblivion. This is why Odyssey was able to be published and distributed without any legal hassle from Nickelodeon.

However, now we are talking about copying work that was done by/for Mirage. Nickelodeon bought the rights to that work. Printing and distributing that work puts you in direct competition with the company that owns that work. Nickelodeon could decide to start reprinting volume 4 tomorrow. If they do, do you think they really want some random guy distributing a printed copy of the least common issue when they could make money including that issue in a collected edition and selling it that way? Not a chance...and if they caught wind of it, a cease and desist order is a best case scenario.

To reiterate, it has nothing to do with making money or not making money. The guy printing these may make $100 per copy or he may give them away for free. It's irrelevant. It's piracy.



To the OP, I won't pretend to know what copyright laws are like in France (I'm assuming that's where you are). In the U.S., printing those books would be illegal. If you took it to a printer and they didn't turn you away, they would also be breaking the law. It's kind of like school pictures. When the company sends the pics home with the kids to see if the parents want to buy any, it is illegal to scan those pictures and have them printed out at Walgreens. You're not buying the photos...you're buying the RIGHTS to the photos. Walgreens knows that and will turn you away, knowing that the picture company could sue if they print the images. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Would I like a cheap copy of this book? Sure. Do I think it's ludicrous the price that's being paid for a filler issue as a result of the circumstances surrounding it? Absolutely! But I'm not willing to break the law to acquire a copy and I'd encourage others to act accordingly.
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Old 05-09-2017, 07:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Peter Palmer View Post
Mirage, as it was before, no longer exists. But it's because they care (cleaning up your language) that we got the 1,000 copies that we did when they were still actively publishing. Poor sales didn't make it feasible to do a wide release of the last issues, so they were published on a small scale so that the small but loyal group of fans could keep reading the story. This is the reason they eventually published #31 and #32 well after Mirage closed its doors. If you think the guys at Mirage did it for the money, you're nuts. I appreciate that we got what we got.



This issue isn't whether he's making money or not...it's dealing in copyrighted material. Copyright law has a lot of wiggle room built in for fan art, fan fiction, and parody. This is why you can go to any comic convention and see artists selling prints featuring copyrighted characters (TMNT, Spider-man, Batman, etc.) and not get sued to oblivion. This is why Odyssey was able to be published and distributed without any legal hassle from Nickelodeon.

However, now we are talking about copying work that was done by/for Mirage. Nickelodeon bought the rights to that work. Printing and distributing that work puts you in direct competition with the company that owns that work. Nickelodeon could decide to start reprinting volume 4 tomorrow. If they do, do you think they really want some random guy distributing a printed copy of the least common issue when they could make money including that issue in a collected edition and selling it that way? Not a chance...and if they caught wind of it, a cease and desist order is a best case scenario.

To reiterate, it has nothing to do with making money or not making money. The guy printing these may make $100 per copy or he may give them away for free. It's irrelevant. It's piracy.



To the OP, I won't pretend to know what copyright laws are like in France (I'm assuming that's where you are). In the U.S., printing those books would be illegal. If you took it to a printer and they didn't turn you away, they would also be breaking the law. It's kind of like school pictures. When the company sends the pics home with the kids to see if the parents want to buy any, it is illegal to scan those pictures and have them printed out at Walgreens. You're not buying the photos...you're buying the RIGHTS to the photos. Walgreens knows that and will turn you away, knowing that the picture company could sue if they print the images. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Would I like a cheap copy of this book? Sure. Do I think it's ludicrous the price that's being paid for a filler issue as a result of the circumstances surrounding it? Absolutely! But I'm not willing to break the law to acquire a copy and I'd encourage others to act accordingly.
If that's your own personal opinion, I can respect that. But you shouldn't call out other people for wanting to take part in this. Some of us REALLY need this issue, and this could be the only way for some of us to actually get it.

And Nortock is doing us a HUGE favor for doing this. Not many people would go to the lengths he's gone in order to help people with their collections. And he's a great guy for doing this.
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:26 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by DestronMirage22 View Post
If that's your own personal opinion, I can respect that. But you shouldn't call out other people for wanting to take part in this. Some of us REALLY need this issue, and this could be the only way for some of us to actually get it.

And Nortock is doing us a HUGE favor for doing this. Not many people would go to the lengths he's gone in order to help people with their collections. And he's a great guy for doing this.
Its still 100% illegal. If you need it and want to print you own at home, do it. Him making and sellkng copies to other people is still illegal.

Granted Mirage is not DC or Marvel and not likely to sue his ass into oblivion... but still wrong.

He's a jackass. Anyone buying it is a jackass. I really need a TMNT #1 first print, but if i scan and make copies of one, its not really a first print.

Peter Laird has made all four issues available to read, for free on his website. Thats likely where this guy got high res scans lf the artwork. Go read it there.

Hell, if you still can't find it, Turtle Power Entertainment shared all four issues of the final comics for free last year.


Illegal is still illegal even if you want or need this issue. Man up, save some pennies and buy a copy... theres a cgc one on ebay right now for 1300 bucks...
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