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Old 05-09-2017, 08:28 AM   #21
mrmaczaps
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Also, this isn't the same as a fan comic or the end of v3. This is just copying a copyrighted book and making a few cosmetic changes. The cover price info is gone and adding the fans commission pinup to it.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DestronMirage22 View Post
If that's your own personal opinion, I can respect that. But you shouldn't call out other people for wanting to take part in this. Some of us REALLY need this issue, and this could be the only way for some of us to actually get it.

And Nortock is doing us a HUGE favor for doing this. Not many people would go to the lengths he's gone in order to help people with their collections. And he's a great guy for doing this.
It's not my personal opinion that it's illegal. Laws say that this is illegal.

If you want to take part in criminal activity, that's your business and I won't try to stop you as long as you keep it to yourself. But using a TMNT fan site to promote something illegal is pretty much the opposite of keeping it to yourself. I enjoy reading these boards and don't want to see them shut down. But if the boards end up hosting illegal activity, even unknowingly, the site could be forced to close. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Absolutely. Why risk it?

Finally, since when is REALLY needing something justification for breaking the law?

I REALLY need to be at work on time today, so I'm going to speed to get there.

I REALLY need rent money, so I'm going to grab this lady's purse real quick.

I REALLY need this comic book to complete a run, so I'm going to break copyright law to get it.

As someone said, Peter was kind enough to not only publish these issues initially, but he also made them available to read for free online. If you really need a physical copy for your own personal use, print it out and staple them together. But taking copyrighted material to a printer and then distributing it is 100% against the law in the U.S.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:41 AM   #23
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Stop with the goody two shoes ****. I bet each and everyone of us breaks at least one law every day because there are so many laws on the books. I'm not saying there should be total lawlessness but even the individuals that pass them don't even follow them. If he gets in trouble, that's on him.

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Old 05-09-2017, 11:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sabacooza View Post
Stop with the goodie two shoes ****. I bet each and everyone of us breaks at least one law every day because there are so many laws on the books. I'm not saying there should be total lawlessness but even the individuals that pass them don't even follow them. If he gets in trouble, that's on him.
The first part of this post is irrelevant to the conversation at hand, but the bolded part is relevant. The only problem with it is that if he gets in trouble and a lawyer is feeling especially froggy, it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that the Technodrome Forums could be found complicit in the illegal activities by allowing them to take place on their forums. The site could be shut down as a result.

Think about it. Why do you suppose the moderators don't want people posting links to other sites where people can download TMNT-related material?

Risking a public site we all seem to enjoy to promote illegal wares warrants speaking up in my book.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:28 AM   #25
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Nobody is going to shut the goddamn board down. Relax.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:43 AM   #26
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Nobody is going to shut the goddamn board down. Relax.
Have I posted anything to make you think I'm anything other than relaxed?
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:44 PM   #27
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Hi everyone,

I’d like to step in and maybe help put things into perspective.

I understand the concerns which are expressed in this thread.
Yet there might be an overreaction when you look at what we are dealing with here.

We are talking about a mere 22 copies provided with no profit by one fan to a bunch of other fans.
The book reprints a story whose scans are legally available and which is very unlikely to be reprinted officially in the upcoming years.
Moreover all people involved spend their bucks on TMNT books and goodies on a regular basis.
The board is not in jeopardy.

I will repeat myself but my belief is that there is a zone of tolerance within which my project falls.
This consideration is a legitimate opinion. And it is mine as well as other dromers’ here.

When I mentioned examples of creative fan works such as Odyssey, it might have lacked the required accuracy.
I should have referred to Tale of the TMNT #71 which is in my opinion of the same nature as my fan print project (even if the amount of work put in my project is not of the same extent at all).
Tales of the TMNT #71 is a small print of a very scarce copyrighted material, not a fan work, made available to fans through an unofficial channel.
I am very thankful to the fans who made this possible and I know I am not the only one.
I can also thank the zone of tolerance which I talked about above.

At this stage, if board moderators judge that this thread needs to be locked. So be it.

Cheers!
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nortock Diab View Post
Hi everyone,

I’d like to step in and maybe help put things into perspective.

I understand the concerns which are expressed in this thread.
Yet there might be an overreaction when you look at what we are dealing with here.

We are talking about a mere 22 copies provided with no profit by one fan to a bunch of other fans.
The book reprints a story whose scans are legally available and which is very unlikely to be reprinted officially in the upcoming years.
Moreover all people involved spend their bucks on TMNT books and goodies on a regular basis.
The board is not in jeopardy.

I will repeat myself but my belief is that there is a zone of tolerance within which my project falls.
This consideration is a legitimate opinion. And it is mine as well as other dromers’ here.

When I mentioned examples of creative fan works such as Odyssey, it might have lacked the required accuracy.
I should have referred to Tale of the TMNT #71 which is in my opinion of the same nature as my fan print project (even if the amount of work put in my project is not of the same extent at all).
Tales of the TMNT #71 is a small print of a very scarce copyrighted material, not a fan work, made available to fans through an unofficial channel.
I am very thankful to the fans who made this possible and I know I am not the only one.
I can also thank the zone of tolerance which I talked about above.

At this stage, if board moderators judge that this thread needs to be locked. So be it.

Cheers!
For the record, just because it's free online, it doesn't legally give you the right to print your own damn copies! Buy a vowel, get a clue.

You are 100% breaking the law in making copies in order to sell, regardless if you make ANY money out of it.

The pages were online for free for those folks who missed out.

Tales 71 was green lit by Peter from my understanding as they didn't have the okay yet to do the Cerebus reprint and needed a filler issue. Again, this is not what you have done with your fan print. Your fan print is nothing more than copying issue 29 and adding a fans paid commission to it. The fan seems not to care that something he wanted done is being copied and passed around... and mayne IDW & Mirage/Peter don't care either that you have done this, but its still not legal.
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nortock Diab View Post
Hi everyone,

I’d like to step in and maybe help put things into perspective.

I understand the concerns which are expressed in this thread.
Yet there might be an overreaction when you look at what we are dealing with here.

We are talking about a mere 22 copies provided with no profit by one fan to a bunch of other fans.
The book reprints a story whose scans are legally available and which is very unlikely to be reprinted officially in the upcoming years.
Moreover all people involved spend their bucks on TMNT books and goodies on a regular basis.
The board is not in jeopardy.

I will repeat myself but my belief is that there is a zone of tolerance within which my project falls.
This consideration is a legitimate opinion. And it is mine as well as other dromers’ here.

When I mentioned examples of creative fan works such as Odyssey, it might have lacked the required accuracy.
I should have referred to Tale of the TMNT #71 which is in my opinion of the same nature as my fan print project (even if the amount of work put in my project is not of the same extent at all).
Tales of the TMNT #71 is a small print of a very scarce copyrighted material, not a fan work, made available to fans through an unofficial channel.
I am very thankful to the fans who made this possible and I know I am not the only one.
I can also thank the zone of tolerance which I talked about above.

At this stage, if board moderators judge that this thread needs to be locked. So be it.

Cheers!
Look, I really believe that you "believe" that what you've done is legal, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't. As I stated, this "zone of tolerance" you believe is keeping you legal largely applies to fan art, fan fiction, and parody. You're dealing with copyrighted material that is owned by a company who purchased the sole right to distribute said material.

But there is an easy way to settle this. Send an e-mail to Nick's/Viacom's copyright department and ask for their input.

copyright@mtvn.com

As many have said, given the context (low availability of the original book, high price of the original book, low print run of the proposed new book, etc.), they may not care at all and give you permission. If that's the case, you just took something that is illegal and turned it 100% legal and no one would have said a word.

But until you get some sort of written permission (expressed, written consent as the NFL is always going on about), this project breaks U.S. copyright law. This e-mail should have been sent out well before you went to the printer. You can still make this project legal, but you need to reach out to Nick/Viacom before proceeding any further in order to do so.

So far, Mr Maczaps has been correct on all accounts. You should really listen to what he's telling you. You may not want to hear it, but it is in your best interest to fully understand the situation.
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:52 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Peter Palmer View Post
Look, I really believe that you "believe" that what you've done is legal, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't. As I stated, this "zone of tolerance" you believe is keeping you legal largely applies to fan art, fan fiction, and parody. You're dealing with copyrighted material that is owned by a company who purchased the sole right to distribute said material.

But there is an easy way to settle this. Send an e-mail to Nick's/Viacom's copyright department and ask for their input.

copyright@mtvn.com

As many have said, given the context (low availability of the original book, high price of the original book, low print run of the proposed new book, etc.), they may not care at all and give you permission. If that's the case, you just took something that is illegal and turned it 100% legal and no one would have said a word.

But until you get some sort of written permission (expressed, written consent as the NFL is always going on about), this project breaks U.S. copyright law. This e-mail should have been sent out well before you went to the printer. You can still make this project legal, but you need to reach out to Nick/Viacom before proceeding any further in order to do so.

So far, Mr Maczaps has been correct on all accounts. You should really listen to what he's telling you. You may not want to hear it, but it is in your best interest to fully understand the situation.
What he said.... and basically.

Also, someone mentioned the drome being culpable for allowing this to be advertised, the shop that printed these for you broke the law by printing them....
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:11 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Peter Palmer View Post
Look, I really believe that you "believe" that what you've done is legal, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't. As I stated, this "zone of tolerance" you believe is keeping you legal largely applies to fan art, fan fiction, and parody. You're dealing with copyrighted material that is owned by a company who purchased the sole right to distribute said material.

But there is an easy way to settle this. Send an e-mail to Nick's/Viacom's copyright department and ask for their input.

copyright@mtvn.com
That's a horrible idea.

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Old 05-10-2017, 10:18 AM   #32
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Its only horrible because they would say "uh hell no" and shut that sh!t down... lol.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:52 AM   #33
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So what do you say, OP? Are you still holding onto the idea that there is a legal "zone of tolerance"? Look at the facts just in this thread. You've got 4 supporters who have posted in defense of this project since the idea that it's illegal was first posted.

-One said the companies haven't printed more and thus obviously don't care about you or their product, so you've got to take what you want.

-One said that the real copy is too expensive and people really NEED this issue, so they are glad you're breaking the law to get this out to the people.

-One said everyone breaks the law, so stop making a big deal about this particular project. He basically says you're doing it at your own risk.

-One basically stated that contacting the Nick/Viacom copyright department would be a terrible idea. If this were within a "zone of tolerance", why would that be bad?

So of the 4 people who have posted in defense of this project (defense, in this case, being posting here in regards to the legality but not calling for it to be taken down.), NONE of them have agreed with you that you're acting within the legal parameters of copyright law. Even your supporters don't share your point of view.



If these are your supporters, do you still think what you're doing is legal?
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:27 PM   #34
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Hey Peter, IDW guys have been made aware of it... over in the ask the editor thread. Also the guys that worked on the original copyrighted material have been made aware. Laird & Lawson...

I love actual fan works, but blatantly ripping off entire stories like this is just ridiculously illegal.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:12 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Nortock Diab View Post
Everything is on track!
Enough people showed their interest.
I now only have to update the file to send it to the printer and decide the exact print run.

I will then let you know about the cost per copy and shipment options.

In the meantime you can read this lovely testimony of a lucky fan who found an original copy.
Enjoy!
The exact same book is on ebay at the moment:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TMNT-29-VOL-...YAAOSwurZZEtl7

Maybe he isn't that passionate at all, as he saw the prices the book sold for the in the last few months
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:07 AM   #36
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The exact same book is on ebay at the moment:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TMNT-29-VOL-...YAAOSwurZZEtl7

Maybe he isn't that passionate at all, as he saw the prices the book sold for the in the last few months
It's not the same copy. Take a look at the turtle head sketch.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:36 PM   #37
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The exact same book is on ebay at the moment:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TMNT-29-VOL-...YAAOSwurZZEtl7

Maybe he isn't that passionate at all, as he saw the prices the book sold for the in the last few months
That's pretty obviously not the fan print... and its signed by Laird... are you high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaczaps View Post
Hey Peter, IDW guys have been made aware of it... over in the ask the editor thread. Also the guys that worked on the original copyrighted material have been made aware. Laird & Lawson...

I love actual fan works, but blatantly ripping off entire stories like this is just ridiculously illegal.
You are a miserable ****.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:01 PM   #38
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My personal opinion: this isn't something I would advocate, or be a part of. It's not quite the same thing as DemonAlukard printing the "lost" TMNT #8 replacement that only ever officially saw print in, like, one Latin country but never in the US (plus he printed them out of Russia, so... I don't know that a letter from Nickelodeon is going to do much of anything there). It's a fan reprinting the actual work of Peter Laird and Jim Lawson, without their permission or consent of an issue that saw official release here in the US, direct from Mirage under license/agreement from Nickelodeon. This is true.

I'm really torn on the matter. It seems like a niche supply and demand kind of thing. Will Peter start up the cogs at Mirage and print more of #29? The odds are probably the same as seeing a new issue of Volume 4 at this point... highly unlikely. Now, does that make it right for someone to just start printing up reprints on their own and selling them willy nilly? There could be an argument for just doing so "at cost" (i.e., no profit), but no. But is it the kind of thing that needs to be vigorously swatted down? I'm not sure. I mean, if Peter and Jim felt strongly, then absolutely. I just don't think the OP set out to do this with dollar signs in his mind. I know I didn't with the Image finisher or Odyssey (although those are entirely different beasts). Maybe negative dollar signs.

I guess this is the kind of thing I'd have just run by the parties involved first, even casually. If it's just shrugs from Peter and Jim on it, and no profit earned, then I don't see the harm. Though I do worry about the precedent it sets.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:52 AM   #39
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That's pretty obviously not the fan print... and its signed by Laird... are you high?
Of course it is NOT the fan print. Are YOU high or just not able to read?
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:55 AM   #40
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That's pretty obviously not the fan print... and its signed by Laird... are you high?
Maybe you should read the whole post before commenting, he was replying about the link in the quote about a guy who found the original comic.


reading comprehension, it goes a long way.
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