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Old 04-27-2017, 03:11 AM   #61
Ninjinister
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I actually didn't mean like... in the "pet" sense. I mean since I don't own the license, no incarnation is "my" turtles.

It weirds me out when people are like "this isn't my X" when it's like... You don't have X thing. You didn't make it, you don't own the rights.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:56 AM   #62
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I don't have turtles.
i don't have turtles either.

though i did have a dog that used to catch wasps and hornets in his mouth and chew them to death. never got stung either. darnedest thing.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:26 AM   #63
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If Eastman had produced that storyline it would have been a chaotic mess of Raph and his Interchangeable Brothers.

Balance is key. I'm glad we had Volume 2 which was more down to earth and character driven, despite its faults.

"My" turtles do kill when necessary but, as in the Mirage comics, they are a bit traumatized from being child soldiers and eventually tone it down.

I do have a bit of trouble imagining Mike deliberately killing but the others have shown the capacity. And those nunchaku can kill whether he wants to or not.

To me a bo seems more deadly than a sai. Some martial arts expert will have to tell me.
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Old 04-27-2017, 09:54 AM   #64
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I don't have turtles.
I do, and they are definitely killers.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:29 AM   #65
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To me a bo seems more deadly than a sai. Some martial arts expert will have to tell me.
I'm no expert, but I'd say the bo definitively have the edge over the sai despite it being a metal baton used for blocking, trapping and used as a throwing weapon. The bo got range and crushing power to boot.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:38 AM   #66
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Reminds me of when I tried to introduce fish in my turtle tank. It actually went really well, I bought mostly "bargain bin" fish to test it out and three of those fish that sticks on the glass.

Besides a few casualties the turtles seemed to grow tired to chasing the fish, 2 of the 3 suckers got eaten. But the last one grew huge, like he was as big as the turtles. After a couple of months I found the big sucker fish floating upside-down, no visible injuries, just dead. And the night after the turtles had cleaned the whole tank off the fish, there wasn't a single trace that I had fish in it, around 50 fish was just gone.
If they were plecos, sad but prob for the best... Everyone has seen these small little sucker fish, but a lot of the public isn't aware that they can supposedly get up to 2' long and live for quite a while. Better off that they took care of their potential overcrowding problem. (Besides, they also crap like crazy. Not really much of clean up crew...)

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Old 04-27-2017, 10:42 AM   #67
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My red-earred sliders are as vicious as my common snapper or alligator snapper. I can throw big fish or rats in there and they'll tear them to shreds (except the tails of rats... they'll just be floating in there), playing tug-of-war with each other over entrails. But the filter will almost right away get gunked up with scales or fur so I don't like to do that too much.

I threw a goldfish in with my razor back musk turtle tank and it lived for like 3, maybe 4 years in there. One day, just gone. In retrospect I'm fairly sure my cat scooped it out and ate it, not the musk turtles.
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:48 AM   #68
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I threw a goldfish in with my razor back musk turtle tank and it lived for like 3, maybe 4 years in there. One day, just gone. In retrospect I'm fairly sure my cat scooped it out and ate it, not the musk turtles.
Dammit, Hob!
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:52 AM   #69
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If they were plecos, sad but prob for the best... Everyone has seen these small little sucker fish, but a lot of the public isn't aware that they can supposedly get up to 2' long and live for quite a while. Better off that they took care of their potential overcrowding problem. (Besides, they also crap like crazy. Not really much of clean up crew...)
2 feet? I was aware that they could grow significantly in size but not that big, but yeah they where probably Common Plecos, I recognize the look when googling them.

Funnily, the petstore employee said hey grew accordingly to the tank, which is a common myth about turtles too, guess I was duped.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:27 PM   #70
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I firmly believe whatever non-killing iteration they find themselves in should fall under the "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" moniker.
Hey, worked for me as a kid.

I personally don't see the Turtles as killers. The Turtles are very self aware beings, killing someone would affect them too much from a psychological point of view. I prefer the Turtles to stop crime as crimefighters. Killing people doesn't make the Turtles any better than the criminals they fight, yeah that's naive of me but I like to be optimistic when it comes to heroes. It allows us to believe in them.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:36 PM   #71
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Is it Thursday already?

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Hey, worked for me as a kid.

I personally don't see the Turtles as killers. The Turtles are very self aware beings, killing someone would affect them too much from a psychological point of view.
They're not humans. They're mutant freaks raised in a sewer to one day kill a man. Their "psychological well-being" was never a consideration.

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I prefer the Turtles to stop crime as crimefighters. Killing people doesn't make the Turtles any better than the criminals they fight, yeah that's naive of me but I like to be optimistic when it comes to heroes. It allows us to believe in them.
They're not heroes. Not supposed to be, anyway.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:57 PM   #72
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Next thread: Are your Turtles monsters or people?



They sure willingly take up a heroic role if they feel called to serve a greater good on occasion... Though not in a "superhero" way, and I'd rather that term not applied to them. More that they were able to do something to help a situation and chose to, even if they didn't have to get involved.

They still quietly live as part of that community, as to some extent they still depend on it (food sources, electricity, running water, shelter, material goods, etc) like everyone else. I'd have no issue with them trying to find a purpose for their lives that makes use of their only skill set after the targets they were raised to go after are removed. If their enemies were gone, they're not regular little pet Turtles that would be content to just sit in a confined space for a lifetime and stare at a wall in the lair.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:28 PM   #73
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Because this is a franchise spanning several decades and countless tones and audiences? Because for every die-hard Mirage purist there are hundreds of people who only know the Turtles from a silly and decidedly non-violent cartoon?
So the question is really just "Do you accept that the turtles are killers?", isn't it? The answer is still the same, they're killers regardless wheter or not someone likes and/or knows about it.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:38 PM   #74
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True but the turtles aren't superheroes. They're not out to save the world, they're not out to show humanity how to better themselves. They're all about living their lives unless **** comes their way.

Superman is all about showing us that we can be better, and Spidernan and Batman feel the need to go out every night until every last lowlife is put in jail, which will never happen. The turtles aren't about that.

If a dude breaks into your house with a gun and youre lucky enough to have one, you're not gonna be thinking of morals and shoot him in the knee. Nor are you gonna hit the guy over the head with a vase or something while being extra careful to not straight up kill the guy. That's how i see the turtles and the foot. They endanger themselves and their loved ones so they must be taken out.

And yes, excellent points. Don't give a guy trained in bladed weapons, a pair of bladed weapons.... and then have him throw kicks instead.
I view the Ninja Turtles as superheroes. The thought never crossed my mind they were not until I read post by Mirage purist. They fight super villains and save the day in comics and beyond. Sonic The Hedgehog and the Power Rangers are also super heroes. Yet they aren't the typical DC and Marvel costumed hero who patrol a city but are unique just as the Ninja Turtles are. I suppose its all a matter of opinion.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:25 PM   #75
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I suppose its all a matter of opinion.
*tisk* You know people aren't allowed to have those.

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Old 04-28-2017, 03:33 PM   #76
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I view the Ninja Turtles as superheroes. The thought never crossed my mind they were not until I read post by Mirage purist. They fight super villains and save the day in comics and beyond. Sonic The Hedgehog and the Power Rangers are also super heroes. Yet they aren't the typical DC and Marvel costumed hero who patrol a city but are unique just as the Ninja Turtles are. I suppose its all a matter of opinion.
Well, technically one could argue that the Turtles are maasked, crime-fighting vigilantes, but superheroes? I don't really think so. Heroes, I can see, but superpowered? Nah. While their origins are definitely the result of unique circumstances, they have no superpowered abilities to speak of, their strength to me never appeared to be outside the range of what a normal human could achieve through a dedicated training regimen, much like the Turtles themselves are seen to engage in pretty regularly in most iterations of the franchise.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:05 PM   #77
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But they don't patrol the streets every night looking to fight crime and save the day. The closest one is Raph, and that's mostly to look for someone to beat up to let off some steam, but not for the greater good.

The 80's cartoon was kind of a mixed bag. They'd be content just veg out in front of the tv until Shredder does something. The thing is, Shredder always gets away and is a constant threat, and most of the times, HE'S the one causing trouble in the city. If they captured him since day one, they wouldn't be doing much of anything (but then we wouldn't have a show). But then we have other episodes where Splinter says they're slacking and should still go out and beat up other bad guys even though (at the moment) Shredder has been defeated.

The Power Rangers have some sort of oath to stop 'insert villain of the series here' and they can't really stop until that bad guy is eventually defeated once and for all.

Sonic kinda varies from incarnations. Sometimes he just runs around looking for adventure, not necessarily hoping to fight bad guys, and other times he's part of the last hope resistance in a planet already conquered by Robotnik.

I see the Marvel and DC gang as the classic superhero. Always going out looking for crime to stop. Devoting to use their powers for the greater good. Sometimes devoting their entire lives (and ruining their relationships) just to go out and fight some bad guys every day.

The Turtles, depending on the version, were trained to kill Shredder, or just to have self defense if they ever ran into trouble. They never once said 'we are superior martial artists and masters of deadly weapons, we must use these teachings to set forth and rid the world of all evil!"
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:06 PM   #78
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For the fun of it, I'd love to take the PD Turtles (minus overpowered nonsense, e.g. no "bullet proof" junk) and somehow put them in a crossover film with superheros from the likes of Marvel or DC. (To the resentment of Marvel/DC fans I'm sure, sorry.) And allow these non-super, non-human/not-quite-human Turtles to otherwise still portray a very human element in their efforts to keep up and play an important role in whatever it is that the movie's heroes are trying to defeat. With all their relatable hard work and effort and exhaustion, while the super people have it easy.
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Old 04-28-2017, 04:09 PM   #79
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Is it Thursday already?



They're not humans. They're mutant freaks raised in a sewer to one day kill a man. Their "psychological well-being" was never a consideration.



They're not heroes. Not supposed to be, anyway.
I believe the greatest thing about the Mirage TMNT was that they were raised to kill a guy, and succeed, and then they ponder what to do with the rest of their lives. Rarely does any other comic go into things like that.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:29 AM   #80
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The TMNT I grew up with is the 1987 cartoon and I see the core values carry over outside of the black and white comics.
The FW Turtles still blew up Dregg. There aren't really that many versions of the Turtles that haven't at least shown a willingness to kill, at least once. You're pretty much left with the live-action musical universe (Coming out of our Shells, Gettin' Down in Your Town, Turtle Tunes, and Turtle Christmas). And, I guess the NM Turtles and the Imagi Turtles, who are both variants of the New Line Movie Turtles.

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If you use it on another person, then yes. You can and will end up killing someone. You can't just stab a person non-lethally with a sword, no such thing. There may be techniques where to stab/slash a person with best outcome to not kill, but it isn't like the movies when a person drop right away. You can fatally wound someone and they die later due to damaged organs or bleeding out because a artery was cut.

So unless you live in an actual cartoon, swinging a sword to hit another person's flesh is an act of trying to kill them.
That brings up another TMNT issue I have (with almost every version), the Turtles (especially Leo) using their actual deadly weapons in sparring matches. Leo should be using a wooden sword or a bamboo shinai so as not to accidentally kill his brothers during training, yet aside from him having one in Mirage Return to NY, and having a shinai in one FW episode, he's using shown hitting his brothers with his actual swords in sparring matches.

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