Star Trek: Picard

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

I binged all of TNG and the movies before watching Picard.

I'm not really disappointed or even mad, per se, even though I have no interest in seeing any more of this or Discovery. I just don't understand how this got made, other than as a means of selling CBS All Access.

I don't understand why THIS version of Picard got made, and why everyone went along with it.

It's like making a Barack Obama movie, and pitching the guy as a failure. And yes, that probably offends some people, but I take Jean-Luc Picard's reputation as a leader fvcking SERIOUSLY.

[Leo656]

He'll never be Kirk. Kirk went places with his dick that I wouldn't go with a phaser, pally.

But yeah, for example if they did a TV show where they brought Kirk back after three decades, I'd want something a bit more uplifting and triumphant than subversive and so forth. There's always a time and a place for deconstruction but I think the wisdom is in knowing when the proper time and place actually is.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I don't understand why THIS version of Picard got made, and why everyone went along with it.

It's like making a Barack Obama movie, and pitching the guy as a failure. And yes, that probably offends some people, but I take Jean-Luc Picard's reputation as a leader fvcking SERIOUSLY.

Because it unfolded during the height of leftist mania in the country and probably had a room filled with creators scared to shut down the mentality. So everyone smiled and said "it's great! It's great great great!" as a function of group think, and thus Picard season 1 was born in all of it's ******** glory.

[DarkFell]

I actually got to hear the reviews for S.T.P and well honestly, it sounds like they castrated a damn fine former Captain. Let that sink in, my fellow fans.

Originally Posted by Leo656

There's always a time and a place for deconstruction but I think the wisdom is in knowing when the proper time and place actually is.

Destroying the things that a fanbase once held in high regard, seems to be a current 'hobby' that a few film directors enjoy doing when all they need to do is create their own ideas. That way, we can judge their merit and worth accordingly.

[Leo656]

Yeah but "new ideas" don't get huge budgets and familiar/renowned casts, and if you don't have both of those things then your project is never likely to get made. There's the rub, unfortunately.

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah but "new ideas" don't get huge budgets and familiar/renowned casts, and if you don't have both of those things then your project is never likely to get made. There's the rub, unfortunately.

The trick is to get people to stop falling for it. I understand the "anti-SJW" stance on this, but to be honest, following all these old IPs with such diminishing returns feels like a chore in 2020. How many times to we have to watch the zombified remains of all these old franchises shamble back in forth in front of our eyes?

At what point does the general audience just get tired of it?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by DarkFell

I actually got to hear the reviews for S.T.P and well honestly, it sounds like they castrated a damn fine former Captain. Let that sink in, my fellow fans.

You're not really wrong. They did to Picard what Rian Johnson did to Luke Skywalker.

I enjoyed parts of the show, but damn, it was brutal overall.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

The trick is to get people to stop falling for it. I understand the "anti-SJW" stance on this, but to be honest, following all these old IPs with such diminishing returns feels like a chore in 2020. How many times to we have to watch the zombified remains of all these old franchises shamble back in forth in front of our eyes?

At what point does the general audience just get tired of it?

I think you're right, except in the instance of Picard, you have fans who were crippled with disappointment over Nemesis and have waited for almost 20 years for a resolution. This as opposed to simply having "another modern Trek" show or film.

[neatoman]

I just finished this... It's... Not as cringeworthy as I imagined, it's only episode 5 that makes me want to kill myself.

Much like STD, the primary problem here is that it just ignores what the previous shows were or tried to convey. And much like STD it also fails in trying to make any of the characters compelling enough to care about them as much as it wants us to.

It's bad, dreary and just kind of lame. The reason I'm not as annoyed with it as I am STD, is that at least this thing has a much more reasonable story to tell. The whole "androids will destroy the universe" prophecy/conspiracy coupled with the murder mystery isn't that interesting, but at the very least it's not a giant retcon of nonsense that had no chance of working based on how convuluted and contradictory it is.

If they had called this "Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep? Part 2: Attack of the Paranoid Space Elves" it would have been a little less annoying than stitching the Star Trek name and one of it's most popular characters onto it.

[DarkFell]

It took a few seconds on my end not to read ST-D as an STD. Whoops. That's what I get for being tired.

I caught an episode of Discovery while dining with the family at a Mama Margie's some years ago. Despite the noise, the football game on the other flat screen TV was more appealing. I guess visually, it felt less like Star Trek and more like another series.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I think you're right, except in the instance of Picard, you have fans who were crippled with disappointment over Nemesis and have waited for almost 20 years for a resolution. This as opposed to simply having "another modern Trek" show or film.

For me it was less waiting for a resolution as much as it was just wanting new Trek. As in, pushing the timeline forward... not revisiting old-ass TOS stuff with a bunch of retcons.

[Andrew NDB]

So now the old Zimmerman thing might not be true?

https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/...ks-dark-horse/

OK. Reconciled with Levar's comments... they did an about shift. They had some loose plan for season 2 and now they're stretching. They're stretching. And all of the TNG people are back.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

So it's basically a reunion/continuation show now? I could possibly get behind that.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

So now the old Zimmerman thing might not be true?

https://comicbook.com/startrek/news/...ks-dark-horse/

OK. Reconciled with Levar's comments... they did an about shift. They had some loose plan for season 2 and now they're stretching. They're stretching. And all of the TNG people are back.

Wrong link. Are you saying no Robert Picardo?

I look forward to seeing Worf and Geordi again, so there's that, at least. Sigh.

[CyberCubed]

Are you guys sure you want to even see everyone again? Sometimes its best to leave well enough alone. Because you know the usual character assassination or bad writing can poison a character from their last appearance.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Are you guys sure you want to even see everyone again? Sometimes its best to leave well enough alone. Because you know the usual character assassination or bad writing can poison a character from their last appearance.

The first season didn't completely piss me off. I liked parts of it, and am sorta curious to know if Worf is captain of the Enterprise or not.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

The first season didn't completely piss me off. I liked parts of it, and am sorta curious to know if Worf is captain of the Enterprise or not.

Which would be strange now that Starfleet was shown to have an entire fleet of nothing but the same ship - whatever class Riker was commanding along with his copy and paste CGi armada.

So many problems with Picard season 1. So many.
-Picard unnecessarily torn apart by every woman on the show

-"White privilege" assigned to a guy that earned his entire career

-Bring Data back simply to kill him off again immediately (those words fail to explain how dumb this was)

-Picard is dead and now there's basically a synth version of him walking around. There's no argument for memory transfer - it's not the real Picard under any circumstances. As soon as you cut the continuity of though in the same vessel, that person is dead. Memory/mind transfer is film is a trope but if you transferred your memories into a new body as life extension, you'd still be dead. Dead. And whatever was walking around acting like you is a simulacrum. This isn't about religion either, it's about psychology. For anyone who disagrees and educated only through pop culture narratives, then I'd point to the scene in The Sixth Day that illustrates this perfectly.

-An entire fleet of ships but a fleet sized armada of the exact same class of vessel and nothing else

I could go on, but ugh.

[Galactus]

^^^

We've seen transferred consciousness in Star Trek before. I don't see why this would be different.

By your logic every character who has ever used the transporter is dead. It's the old argument that by taking you apart molecule by molecule is essentially killing you and making a perfect copy in your place but no Trek fan ever takes that argument serious.

As for Picard the show it was okay. I don't mind the idea of Picard being a fallen idol after all that is a set up is a great one to see a now humbled lead character rising up from the ash heap and prove himself to the people he'd failed. That being said I never got what he did that made most of the characters he recruited to his crew resent him' it was not having the clout to persuade Starfleet to save more Romulans after the Synths blew up the ship yards. That was hardly his fault. Also the lessons he learned were things that given how Picard was always characterised (even during the show) is stuff he already knew.

The show wasn't a masterpiece by any stretch but it was perfectly watchable and the fan services moments worked well. I tend to think the show should establish it's own identity before going full on making it a TNG reunion.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Galactus

The show wasn't a masterpiece by any stretch but it was perfectly watchable and the fan services moments worked well.

What fan service moments? The only character even happy to see Picard on the whole show was Hugh, and then they killed him off. The Riker and Troi reunion, which got immediately saddled with dead baby melodrama and Troi yelling at Picard? Maybe "Acting Captain Riker" joining the non-battle and leaving right away, you think?

There was an episode of TOS all about a guy transferring people's minds into synthetic bodies. It underscored the idea that even in doing that, it isn't the same person.

[Galactus]

Specifically thinking of Ira Graves from the Schizoid Man who is the best example as he placed his consciousness into Data and there was certainly no question of whether it was actually Graves consciousness.

And yes those are the fan service moments I was thinking of. I'm sure we'll get more of that in season 2 although from a creative stand point I'm not sure they will want to make this a TNG reunion show and while I love him I doubt Sir Pat Stew would ever allow the show to become that.