"Be patient. It’s going to be okay. We’re being respectful of the franchise.”

[Papenbrook]

I'm ashamed that Mr. Suriano was harassed so heavily that he had to tweet a response.

I want to wait and see what happens. Until then, I'm not going to judge his decisions.

[Rooish]

I dunno, looking through this thread, if someone comes up with goddawful designs and completely changes well-established characters and adds magic and other weird gimmicks, maybe they should be reassuring that they're going to be respectful of the franchise? It begs the question, in what way are you planning to be respectful of the franchise?

Yes, yes, it's a kids' show and adult hardcore fans should not expect kids' shows to cater to them, but it does affect the franchise as a whole for adult fans who want new adult-oriented content. Plus, cartoons for kids are written by adults and often have stuff adults can enjoy (the Nick cartoon was obviously enjoyed by many adults), so it makes sense that hardcore fans might get invested in a new cartoon that's coming out.

Plus every time they come out with something new it shifts all the new material that is released, henceforth. Subtle changes to the characters and designs that bleed into the other content, such as the IDW comics (which are the closest thing to enjoyable adult content that we're getting right now, and even they are kind of immature at times). Like, Don's stupid oblong head and tooth gap showed up in IDW, and Michelangelo becoming more and more of the runt of the litter. All this new stuff also fundamentally misunderstands Raph, who I never thought really wanted to be the leader but really didn't want Leo bossing him around. Not to mention it misunderstands Don and Mike who are not blind followers and would probably never follow Raph's impulsive nonsense.

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.

Although April looks like a pretty cool change. Love how nerdy she looks.

[Xiewin]

Leo always came off to me as the most consistent turtle of the bunch while the others seem to keep getting shafted in a one dimensional sense.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by Rooish

I dunno, looking through this thread, if someone comes up with goddawful designs and completely changes well-established characters and adds magic and other weird gimmicks, maybe they should be reassuring that they're going to be respectful of the franchise? It begs the question, in what way are you planning to be respectful of the franchise?

Yes, yes, it's a kids' show and adult hardcore fans should not expect kids' shows to cater to them, but it does affect the franchise as a whole for adult fans who want new adult-oriented content. Plus, cartoons for kids are written by adults and often have stuff adults can enjoy (the Nick cartoon was obviously enjoyed by many adults), so it makes sense that hardcore fans might get invested in a new cartoon that's coming out.

Plus every time they come out with something new it shifts all the new material that is released, henceforth. Subtle changes to the characters and designs that bleed into the other content, such as the IDW comics (which are the closest thing to enjoyable adult content that we're getting right now, and even they are kind of immature at times). Like, Don's stupid oblong head and tooth gap showed up in IDW, and Michelangelo becoming more and more of the runt of the litter. All this new stuff also fundamentally misunderstands Raph, who I never thought really wanted to be the leader but really didn't want Leo bossing him around. Not to mention it misunderstands Don and Mike who are not blind followers and would probably never follow Raph's impulsive nonsense.

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.

Quoted for truth.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

Leo always came off to me as the most consistent turtle of the bunch while the others seem to keep getting shafted in a one dimensional sense.

Well... to this version's credit, they are rounding out the characters... by making them completely different from all other incarnations?

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Spoiler:

I dunno, looking through this thread, if someone comes up with goddawful designs and completely changes well-established characters and adds magic and other weird gimmicks, maybe they should be reassuring that they're going to be respectful of the franchise? It begs the question, in what way are you planning to be respectful of the franchise?

Yes, yes, it's a kids' show and adult hardcore fans should not expect kids' shows to cater to them, but it does affect the franchise as a whole for adult fans who want new adult-oriented content. Plus, cartoons for kids are written by adults and often have stuff adults can enjoy (the Nick cartoon was obviously enjoyed by many adults), so it makes sense that hardcore fans might get invested in a new cartoon that's coming out.

Plus every time they come out with something new it shifts all the new material that is released, henceforth. Subtle changes to the characters and designs that bleed into the other content, such as the IDW comics (which are the closest thing to enjoyable adult content that we're getting right now, and even they are kind of immature at times). Like, Don's stupid oblong head and tooth gap showed up in IDW, and Michelangelo becoming more and more of the runt of the litter. All this new stuff also fundamentally misunderstands Raph, who I never thought really wanted to be the leader but really didn't want Leo bossing him around. Not to mention it misunderstands Don and Mike who are not blind followers and would probably never follow Raph's impulsive nonsense.

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.

Although April looks like a pretty cool change. Love how nerdy she looks.

Still, a person shouldn't harass/ berate the creators for following/ building their personal vision for the TMNT franchise, nor should they harass/ berate the individuals who happen to enjoy said vision.

Even if a person were to dislike the current direction of the franchise, that shouldn't give them the right to constantly insult the creator's work through blatant disrespect. It just isn't necessary.

Why follow the franchise anymore if people aren't allowed to freely explore their own version of the TMNT? What would be the point?

In short, what someone may find disrespectful may be seen as respectful, or even creative, to other people.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Rooish

We have every right to be annoyed with really ugly bizarre new content, even if we just complain to each other. No, people should not be abusive to the creators of these cartoons, although Ciro kind of brought it on himself with his treatment of the Don/April thing and his comments about female characters.

Although to be fair, you should be able to say something stupid and not have to worry about getting angry death threats sent at you from crazed 'fans'. that just makes it worse for everyone else with an opinion.

But yeah, even if you're not interested in this new show, as a fan of the FRANCHISE you have every right to complain about it if it's not to your liking.

I didn't particularly enjoy the last outing. I thought it had too many extra things added. a Stupid inter species romance love triangle. A Mikey so dumb he might as well be brain dead at times. Forgotten plot points. Forgotten characters. bad writing. ugly designs. over used horror elements.

Yet, say any or all of those things, and the crazed fans of the internet think you are 'trolling'. despite being a fan of the franchise for 25 years and liking MOST of what they did with it. now all of a sudden you get tossed out if you don't like one iteration? SMH...

The Internet 2.0, as it was most recently called, is way too much of a millennial headache to put up with sometimes...It's all over the place in emotions.

[CyberCubed]

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

In short, what someone may find disrespectful may be seen as respectful.

This is utter BS. Respect can be defined. It's not open to interpretation.
If you want to argue the turtles can be reinterpreted, fine; but let's not start suggesting words themselves are open to interpretation. You're being absurd.

[ProphetofGanja]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Although to be fair, you should be able to say something stupid and not have to worry about getting angry death threats sent at you from crazed 'fans'. that just makes it worse for everyone else with an opinion.

Well, there's a difference between saying something that's merely stupid and saying something misogynistic; what Ciro said was definitely the latter AND the former.

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

I didn't particularly enjoy the last outing. I thought it had too many extra things added. a Stupid inter species romance love triangle. A Mikey so dumb he might as well be brain dead at times. Forgotten plot points. Forgotten characters. bad writing. ugly designs. over used horror elements.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.

Eh, I think you're a bit biased on that point, Cubed. But I guess it's all a matter of opinion. I know that I couldn't get into the 2012 show's style so I just didn't bother with it; I didn't see much point in hate-watching it just to complain about it. I have better things to do with my time.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

This is utter BS. Respect can be defined. It's not open to interpretation.
If you want to argue the turtles can be reinterpreted, fine; but let's not start suggesting words themselves are open to interpretation. You're being absurd.

What do you mean?

How am I absurd? I merely stated that every single TMNT fan, whether they be a viewer, reader or creator, has/ have differing views of respect.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because the 2012 show had none of those things.

Actually it did.

Love triangle? Check.
Dumb Mike? Check.
Overused horror elements? Check.
Bad writing? Check.
Ugly designs? Check. Very much so.

I do not want to say that other TMNT incarnations were perfect, but all of the above things were indeed present in 2k12 and they ultimately pushed me away from the show.

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

What do you mean?

How am I absurd? I merely stated that every single fan, whether they be a viewer, reader or creator, has/ have differing views of respect, at least for this franchise.

For most people, respect means "treat source material with modicum of attention and understanding", not just take stuff, gut it and add some ******** in a place of what was before, calling it "new creative vision".

[ProphetofGanja]

Originally Posted by Sumac

For most people, respect means "treat source material with modicum of attention and understanding", not just take stuff, gut it and add some ******** in a place of what was before, calling it "new creative vision".

True, but Papenbrook isn't wrong in that because people value different things, what some people view as "disrespecting" a franchise others may view as a fresh new take on it, an injection of creativity.

I don't care that all of these differences are present in the new show. I'll check out the first few episodes to see if I like the vibe, and if I don't I'll just stop watching. I do think there's a lot of potential with the added mystical elements though.

Also, does anybody else think the first few episodes will be premiere back-to-back as part of a multi-part story? Since it's a quarter hour show maybe the first four episodes will air on the same night. I hope so anyways

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Although to be fair, you should be able to say something stupid and not have to worry about getting angry death threats sent at you from crazed 'fans'. that just makes it worse for everyone else with an opinion.

But yeah, even if you're not interested in this new show, as a fan of the FRANCHISE you have every right to complain about it if it's not to your liking.

I didn't particularly enjoy the last outing. I thought it had too many extra things added. a Stupid inter species romance love triangle. A Mikey so dumb he might as well be brain dead at times. Forgotten plot points. Forgotten characters. bad writing. ugly designs. over used horror elements.

Yet, say any or all of those things, and the crazed fans of the internet think you are 'trolling'. despite being a fan of the franchise for 25 years and liking MOST of what they did with it. now all of a sudden you get tossed out if you don't like one iteration? SMH...

The Internet 2.0, as it was most recently called, is way too much of a millennial headache to put up with sometimes...It's all over the place in emotions.

Like totally. Especially we should have a right to complain here, on a ninja turtles discussion board.

Obviously no one should get death threats, those are illegal anyway? But they should be able to receive criticism if they choose to make their version of the franchise the same in name only.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by ProphetofGanja

True, but Papenbrook isn't wrong in that because people value different things, what some people view as "disrespecting" a franchise others may view as a fresh new take on it, an injection of creativity.

Although in the context they used, to respect something would be to be faithful to the history of a thing, or at the very least the most fundamental parts. Having respect or being faithful kind of conflicts in word use when talking fresh new takes on something...


Unless their idea of being respectful to it is just keeping the most basic, superficial aspects intact... such as pizza, mask colors, and being Turtles.

Two of which could acceptably be dropped or gone retro, the third... well they did try to veer off into different lanes in terms of species but stayed on the same turtle highway.



Maybe someday a show creator will share my perspective of new being more story-based and continuation, allowing them to continue to thrive and have new adventures, rather than going back to the beginning all over again for the billionth time but changing who they are as people in order to be different... (I realize what we know of them now isn't exactly the same as they were in Mirage, but I prefer that it has at least been a very slow 30+ year evolution of who they have become as characters over time. Not this abrupt ridiculous and unnecessary nonsense for the sake of change.)

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Actually it did.
Love triangle? Check.
Dumb Mike? Check.
Overused horror elements? Check.
Bad writing? Check.
Ugly designs? Check. Very much so.

The love triangle got annoying in some eps, but it was ultimately just a running gag. As for dumb Mike? It's a problem in most incarnations, the 2k3 series made Mikey overly annoying after he won the Battle Nexus in Season 2 for the rest of the series.

Overused horror elements? Sure, but they didn't bother me too much. As for bad writing, every show has both its good and bad episodes, so this is the norm. In terms of the main plots they were handled well. As for ugly designs, what are you referring to here?

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Actually it did.

Love triangle? Check.
Dumb Mike? Check.
Overused horror elements? Check.
Bad writing? Check.
Ugly designs? Check. Very much so.

I do not want to say that other TMNT incarnations were perfect, but all of the above things were indeed present in 2k12 and they ultimately pushed me away from the show.

That's just our resident troll trolling again ;o)...pay him no heed.

But yeah. all that stuff above , AND adding in super long breaks that where sometimes months apart didn't exactly make me have a love fest with this series.

I think this is the only series so far where some shows I've barely watched once, and some i had to force myself to finish.

This new series, so far, does not exactly SCREAM respect. It screams of 'This series has b een rebooted so many damn times, How can we make it feel different and look new?' the first iteration of this idea was Platinum Dune turtles. they apparently KNEW we'd hate the designs, but went ahead with them anyway because they looked different. and we all knew how respectful THAT version was.

[sdp]

Spicing things up is always good, taking a new approach is usually good as well. This new show is neither of those, it's one of those desperate attempts at trying to make a brand appealing again with style over substance. It's natural people are not going to like it.

Who knows how the show will turn out; Batman Beyond didn't look good on paper either but it's easily one of the coolest takes on it. However if we go by history most of these radical for the sake of doing something new and unique like this don't work since fans don't like it, they steered too far from what makes the franchise and whatnot. I tend to like these weird alternate takes like Gilligan's Island in outer space, but more of a novelty.

It's perfectly understandable for people to be upset about this even if they're "casual" fans, even big nerds like Black Nerd and Pixel Dan seem to try very hard to be positive about it and they are always positive about everything.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The love triangle got annoying in some eps, but it was ultimately just a running gag. As for dumb Mike? It's a problem in most incarnations, the 2k3 series made Mikey overly annoying after he won the Battle Nexus in Season 2 for the rest of the series.

Overused horror elements? Sure, but they didn't bother me too much. As for bad writing, every show has both its good and bad episodes, so this is the norm. In terms of the main plots they were handled well. As for ugly designs, what are you referring to here?

That's just it, depends what bothers you. Things like the horror elements being used a lot were there but it didn't ruin it for me either. The new show will have it's mystical theme which will bother some and not others. Things like designs are matter of opinion.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by sdp

It's perfectly understandable for people to be upset about this even if they're "casual" fans, even big nerds like Black Nerd and Pixel Dan seem to try very hard to be positive about it and they are always positive about everything.

don't they get paid too, or at least incentivized too?