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Old 11-10-2017, 11:08 AM   #441
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My comment about not being canon is mostly tongue in cheek, I don't see why the episodes would not be canon, they fit just fine. Just because something you didn't want happened doesn't mean it didn't.

It's a bittersweet ending, you can have your own headcanon that it's an apocalyptic future that Renet stops but whatever, it happened.
I was just explaining where the canon/non canon thing came from

Edit: I agree on disregarding something just based on the fact that you don't like it

Last edited by newfan; 11-11-2017 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 11-10-2017, 06:32 PM   #442
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Damage control has caused a division which will likely remain. Nick counts season 5 as tales and not canon (confirmed in a tweet)
The writers however, I think did intend it to be canon (knowing that they want to write stories around the apocalypse tells me it isn't a one off story to them) Some think that Nick gets to decide what is canon as they own the franchise and then obviously others hold the writers in higher regard as they created this particular show and this has been their story.

Anyway, either you see 5's tales as canon or you don't, like a lot of others I too got tired of all the arguing over it
Creators should always have the final say, imagine if Nick comes and scraps every single Mirage comic after the first one and creates a brand new series that becomes the new "canon", can you imagine? This is the same, Ciro says it's the future of this Turtles and it's the end of the show so it is the end of the show, period.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:59 AM   #443
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I was so sure I'd flat out hate this finale after reading too much beforehand. I was POSITIVE I'd loathe this as a real and proper conclusion to this series I'd loved so much for 5 years. All the spoilers, all the badmouthing, I just nodded along with and could see myself just being tempted to shut it off multiple times out of frustration and utter disgust when I finally decided to watch it.

I was absolutely blown away though. Funny how that works sometimes lol. This is a flat-out masterpiece IMO. I feel like it maintained all the fun, wit and energy of the series at its core too, despite the downbeat events and bleak atmosphere. The action is incredible in this too. Like some of the very best the series ever put on display. Some of the sequences are just wicked. The ending is truly powerful and beautifully done as well. I teared up repeatedly. I am now just thinking about all of it.

I dunno... having been of two minds on it myself before and after seeing it, and while I can see why some still don't want to or choose not to accept this as the true "ending," I think it's absolutely amazing and the most epic conclusion we'll probably ever see to any incarnation of TMNT in most of our lifetimes. It was hugely impactful, emotional, and intense. IMO, everything a proper send-off should truly be. And even if you hate it, I'd argue it is unforgettable.

Really wish we'd have gotten toys of all these designs too. Such a damn shame. I would love a shelf just filled up with all these iterations of the characters, as well as the new ones. And a giant Chompy too!
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:53 PM   #444
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Technically those who finally wanted Scale Tail to get a debut in TMNT canon finally got it with this episode too. One of the most obscure toy characters who never got a cartoon debut before.
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:08 PM   #445
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The Scale Tail clan was awesome. So were the Badger Ravagers. Such killer designs. I'm so watching this again while I'm off tomorrow lol. Just so much awesome packed into those last 3 episodes.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:05 PM   #446
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I didn't realize the Scale Tail reference, I actually thought Karai was a reference to Snake Tail since she could just summon multiple snakes as limbs.


Yes, I think some may not like the Apocalypse Arc as a finale to Nick but as a stand alone story everyone should pretty much love it. It might not be the most original story but it's done so well that it's an amazing experience. I'll definitely be watching it again a few times before I ever decide to revisit Nick as a whole.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:35 PM   #447
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They literally called themselves, "The Scale tail Clan" like several times in the episode.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:48 PM   #448
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Finally saw it. That was a fun ride and such a bittersweet ending to the show
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:49 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by sdp View Post
I didn't realize the Scale Tail reference, I actually thought Karai was a reference to Snake Tail since she could just summon multiple snakes as limbs.


Yes, I think some may not like the Apocalypse Arc as a finale to Nick but as a stand alone story everyone should pretty much love it. It might not be the most original story but it's done so well that it's an amazing experience. I'll definitely be watching it again a few times before I ever decide to revisit Nick as a whole.
I think the last episode of the arc soured it for me, I thought the ending was rushed and that Leo's design was god awful, he didn't even look like a turtle. I also really hate the turtles having hair, especially Mikey. But i thought the first 2 episodes were really well done.
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:39 PM   #450
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I think the last episode of the arc soured it for me, I thought the ending was rushed and that Leo's design was god awful, he didn't even look like a turtle. I also really hate the turtles having hair, especially Mikey. But i thought the first 2 episodes were really well done.
They had a lot to cover in the last 22 minutes of the arc. And I agree it was really rushed, but it was the best they could do in the amount of time they had. I heard they wanted to have four episodes devoted to this arc originally, but Nick wouldn't allow it. I still think it needed that one last episode to finish everything off. I saw so much potential for that. I'm still hoping for a TMNT 2012 special or even a movie at some point that might clear some things up.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:08 PM   #451
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The thought just came to me. No matter what kind of future awaits the Turtles in Mirage, it's not a happy one. In a sense, the Nick show gave them a Mirage type ending. And seeing so many fans in denial that this is how it truly ends and it isn't some sort of alternate future or possible future, but THE future shows that they're not ready for a true Mirage style show.
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Old 11-12-2017, 02:28 PM   #452
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Finally got around to watching this, really surpassed my expectations! Loved all the little easter eggs. I guess I'm a sucker for post-apocalypse timelines, they seem to go with TMNT like PB goes with J.

So I take it there are no plans for action figures based on these designs? (I couldn't find anything in the Toy thread but I admittedly didn't dig too hard.) That's a shame as they'd probably be the only figures I'd buy other than the original turtle figs and Usagi.
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:32 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
shows that they're not ready for a true Mirage style show.
But then disagreeing with/not liking even just one thing Mirage did means they're not ready for such a show... Which, theoretically, could be everyone. (see edit)

At the same time, "Mirage style" doesn't have to be Mirage in 100% every shape and form. Would people really be mad about the TMNT getting a happier ending? (And is it really a big deal what anyone wants to make this one out to be? Not like we'll be discussing this series a whole lot for much longer anyhow.)

I think people could want a darker, grittier, more grown-up show, while being okay with (or wanting) a well deserved happier ending for them after all their troubles and hardships.




Anyhow... So long Nick TMNT. Realized while sitting at break at work that the series had officially ended a hour and a half before.



edit: *cough* Come to think of it, for example of a controversial one, Mirage had the whole Leo and Radical thing, huh? Don't like Turtles in relationships with human women? (Rage at "fangirls" for being okay with it?) Not ready for Mirage then. But wait, wasn't either Eastman or Laird supposedly not fond of it either? Guess he/they too aren't ready. Sorry, it's cannon, Turtles and humans... and Leo's got human fever, always has; you ain't ready if you aren't cool with that.

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Old 11-12-2017, 04:09 PM   #454
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Also, this show was a kids show, they get kids to love these guys, see them as heros and then give them a sad end? Maybe some of the denial came from people not expecting that.
Course, this may have been Ciro being kid friendly, seen as they were alive (in some form) in the end
I'm not sure how I would feel if the show were older and grittier, ending wise I mean, (though I don't expect to see the hero's die in movies that often but I know the original story wasn't a happy end ) I'd be less surprised. So far as these turltes go, no I didn't expect or want that for them.

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Old 11-12-2017, 07:58 PM   #455
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Also, this show was a kids show, they get kids to love these guys, see them as heros and then give them a sad end? Maybe some of the denial came from people not expecting that.
Course, this may have been Ciro being kid friendly, seen as they were alive (in some form) in the end
I'm not sure how I would feel if the show were older and grittier, ending wise I mean, (though I don't expect to see the hero's die in movies that often but I know the original story wasn't a happy end ) I'd be less surprised. So far as these turltes go, no I didn't expect or want that for them.
They didn't had a sad end, they had a bittersweet one, you know, the actual original lesson behind the whole franchise? That life at best is bittersweet?
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:11 PM   #456
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They didn't had a sad end, they had a bittersweet one, you know, the actual original lesson behind the whole franchise? That life at best is bittersweet?
That's probably how Volume 4 was going to end, that despite everything that happened to them and all the physical changes they went through, they'd at least end up together in the end.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:19 AM   #457
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They didn't had a sad end, they had a bittersweet one, you know, the actual original lesson behind the whole franchise? That life at best is bittersweet?
That being the case, I still found it sad personally (even though there was the sweet aspect). My comment was just to suggest (in response to Coola's post) that maybe this contributed to why some people were in denial about the end being permanent, because this version was aimed at kids and isn't a gritty show for the older audience, so they didn't expect it. Maybe, maybe not.

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Old 11-13-2017, 01:48 AM   #458
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That's probably how Volume 4 was going to end, that despite everything that happened to them and all the physical changes they went through, they'd at least end up together in the end.
That's not the case at all. We know canonically that they grow apart and die alone. Don in his lab, Leo at his home, Raph in the swamp, & Mike, presumably, in space.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:57 AM   #459
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I got to meet Sean Astin at RICC and I mentioned Ninja Turtles and the finale and his eyes lit up. He talked about how much he loved the script, and being Raph in general, and how he loved the risks they took and how they thought outside of the box in terms of storytelling. It wasn't what you would have expected he said. I don't care, this man's enthusiasm for the show and Raphael was palpable. It was so great to see.

A little tidbit too. He actually had to record his lines twice. He said he couldn't remember if it was too gravely or not gravely enough but there was a specific tone they were trying to reach that wasn't there and they needed him to come back so he could absolutely nail it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:47 AM   #460
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Thats good to hear - if nothing else it seems everyone working with the show really loved doing so. It raises hopes that in the event of any future crossover event in later series that the voice actors would be willing to come back now and again.

I also thought his work with Raph in apocalypse was really good. It was a great progression of age for the existing Raph voice without being so different it may as well have been a completely different character. I really hope Sean Astin does more VO work in future.
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