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View Poll Results: Would you (or do you) spank your kids?
Of course. 0 0%
Yes. 5 50.00%
No. 4 40.00%
Absolutely not! 1 10.00%
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:54 AM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Would you (or do you) spank your kids?

Where do you stand?
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:29 AM   #2
ProphetofGanja
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I dunno. I wouldn't want to, but I think very rarely it may be the form of discipline that gets the point across most succinctly. I'd rather use words to explain things but like with a toddler you can't do that very well.

In any case, my girlfriend's family used corporal punishment when she was growing up and she'll probably want to resort to it at least occasionally.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:44 AM   #3
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I don't have any and never will, but I definitely would spank 'em.

I've seen how many of my friends' kids who were raised without physical discipline behave. Boss their parents around, totally rude and inconsiderate to adults in general, constant sass-mouth, "Me Me Me" entitlement.

Now, this might sound odd coming from someone like me, because I wasn't just spanked, I was BEAT. As in, "occasionally tied up with belts so I couldn't defend myself and then whipped with branches, belts, hangers or whatever was around" kind of "beat". Once, when I was late for school, my Dad beat me until I was bleeding with a 6-foot branch, threw me in the car by my hair, drove me to school and physically shoved me out of the car onto the sidewalk and drove away. Sh*t like that wasn't every day, or even close to it, but it was often enough to the point where I thought it was just the way things were. It wasn't until I was in therapy that I realized that MOST kids don't get raised that way.

So given that, you might think I don't believe in physical punishment, since I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through ALL THAT. But for one thing, my parents were drug addicts, and when you do cocaine you're prone to that level of violent overreaction to minor irritations. So odds are good that if I had "normal" parents, it wouldn't have been so bad. It was the 80s, I still would have gotten hit, most likely, but MOST parents who hit their kids never went to THAT extreme. Not unless they were coked up, meth'ed up, or raging alcoholics. NONE of those people should be allowed to have kids in the first place.

But spanking, or even a good slap in the mouth? Not only is that fine, it's ultimately rather necessary. Kids are entitled little sh*ts who think everything is about Them until you correct them, and they only "behave" when they're afraid of repercussions. In that way, they're no different from grown-ups. People, in general, only "act right" when there's a chance they could be punished for Acting Wrong, and kids care a lot less than anyone else if they're being out of line.

I'm personally very big on politeness, for example. Many have seen how I kind of flip out when people are needlessly rude to me, and that's because I was raised to always Be Polite. Even as a kid, I had a real smart mouth; sometimes, out in public, I'd say something really out of line To or About someone else, usually an adult. This only happened a couple of times, because my Dad would immediately slap my face to "Correct" me, while loudly reminding me that "I didn't raise you to talk to people like that." And he was Right and I was Wrong. I got the message REAL quick, and my behavior subsequently improved. If all he did was ground me? Threaten to take away my video games? Pssssh.

I mean, point of fact, me and my friends were all rowdy kids. SOME level of physical discipline was necessary because we simply weren't gonna listen to Words and Threats from our parents; that's a fact and I own that. We couldn't be threatened with being grounded or whatever, we'd just say some smartmouth sh*t back like "You ain't the boss'a me!" or whatever dumb sh*t kids say. Eventually, though, you push your luck, and the grown-up says, "Oh YEAH?" And then you get the belt. And then you REMEMBER that the next time you think about acting up, and you Behave. That's how you LEARN that Actions Have Consequences; without it, that's merely an abstract concept.

My Mom's friends had three kids, all boys, ROWDY boys, great friends of mine, we all still talk, some of the best people I know, and they've got their own kids now. When we were kids, we used to amuse ourselves by sneaking into junkyards and smashing all the windows and windshields and sh*t like that, just to give you some idea of what our parents were dealing with. Their parents took NO sh*t whatsoever, because with kids like us, you give an inch we'd take six miles. When I'd go over to their house, as soon as you walked into the kitchen, the whole wall was adorned with leather belts, some of them with metal studs, as an ominous warning that You DON'T Act Up In This House. If one kid acted up, ALL of them got the belt, so there was no favoritism involved and we ALL got the message. I know I got my share of whacks for one of the other kids dropping a swear or whatever, but as long as it was all four of us it wasn't a big deal. I wasn't even their kid! But I knew The Rules and I respected them. We ALL behaved better as we got older because we'd been taught about Consequences very early on. By the time we were like, 10, nobody got the belt because nobody was acting a fool anymore. Great people, I loved going over to their house and I wasn't afraid of their parents at all even though they whacked me a couple of times. They were a lot nicer to me than my own parents generally were, and I totally understood what they were trying to do by running their house that way, and it worked. Those three kids grew up to be some of the most responsible and well-adjusted people I know, and they have great relationships with their own kids now.

Spanking your kids (Keep in mind, I do mean "spanking" and not the kind of excessive sh*t I went through with my own parents at times) only "warps" them if you 1. Do it for absolutely no reason, or 2. You've got a little snowflake who doesn't believe they're capable of doing anything wrong. Kids are very savvy that words and threats are just that, Words and Threats. But they'll always remember a sore ass or a slap in the mouth, and unless they're a complete idiot they won't do what they did that got them there. That's been my experience. I definitely did not deserve 90% of what I got, but there were times when I DEFINITELY did deserve it, and I learned from those situations and I'm grateful for it.

Everybody I know who screeches about how they'd never even DREAM of hitting their kids, their kids run the house, no exceptions. It's a big reason why everything's all screwed up nowadays, we raised an entire generation of entitled little nitwits who've never had any discipline, and they carry that attitude out into the world with them as adults. You can always tell who never got a slap in the mouth even one in their entire lives, because they're snotty little c***suckers.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Now, this might sound odd coming from someone like me, because I wasn't just spanked, I was BEAT. As in, "occasionally tied up with belts so I couldn't defend myself and then whipped with branches, belts, hangers or whatever was around" kind of "beat". Once, when I was late for school, my Dad beat me until I was bleeding with a 6-foot branch, threw me in the car by my hair, drove me to school and physically shoved me out of the car onto the sidewalk and drove away. Sh*t like that wasn't every day, or even close to it, but it was often enough to the point where I thought it was just the way things were. It wasn't until I was in therapy that I realized that MOST kids don't get raised that way.
Was any action taken against him for child abuse?
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Old 07-23-2020, 02:20 PM   #5
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Nope. Different time.

They sent DYFS to the house once, and he just yelled at 'em and they left. That wouldn't happen nowadays, obviously.

It was a small town and a different era (late-80s, early-90s). I didn't know a single kid who never got hit, it was all pretty standard. I got it worse than some a few times, but the prevailing attitudes in those days were, "Well sh*t, you must'a done SOMEthing or they wouldn't have done that." Kids were to be seen and not heard, and if parents were drinking or getting coked up and kids got a little banged up, well... you shouldn't have acted up.

I mean you can tell a counselor or even a cop, "Last night my Mom got drunk, high on coke, and threw a liquor bottle at my head," and they'd just be like "They're grown-ups, they can party if they feel like. You should've been in bed sleeping, it wouldn't have happened. That's probably why she was mad in the first place."

The school counselors would check in with me from time to time, but at some point when you realize there's not much to be done, you just lie about what's going on so people will leave you alone. It's not like I wanted to be in foster care or anything. I'unno what it's like now but back in those days those kids got molested a lot. So nobody ever wanted to get taken out of their house even if their parents were being assholes. "They're gonna put you in foster care with some child molester".

The thing I can't stress enough, is that this sort of thing was STRICTLY related to their substance abuse. When they were sober they were entirely different people. My Dad couldn't even be bothered to yell, most times, let alone get off the couch to try and come after me. My Mom wasn't an angry or violent person by nature but she would grab a belt or a spoon, but that's as far as it went if she was sober, and even that generally took a lot. I WAS a very rowdy kid and the spankings and stuff were generally "earned". The OTHER stuff was just because they were high, and didn't like me cussing them out over it. I'd holler at them for blowing the phone bill money on drugs or stealing my Birthday money and they'd just get pissed off and beat my ass.

BUT, they both had coke problems and she drank often. TOTALLY different people on cocaine. And when she was drunk, forget about it, she'd fight the whole world. Tried to push my Dad down the stairs, one time, she was legit insane when she was messed up. She got better at one point for like a year after she went to rehab to avoid jail, but she refused to make new friends so she went right back into everything because they all drank and did coke. She died when I was 14, overdose. The last two years she was worse than ever, even my Dad couldn't deal with her anymore so he threw her out and she fell in with some junkie, and then she didn't make it. She was getting so violent that we were having full-blown fistfights a few times during that period. We had a bit of a reconciliation sort of, a couple weeks before she died, but nothing was ever totally resolved. I guess it never is. I know she didn't wanna be that person, but she chose to be that person, so... Live and Learn, I guess.

My Dad didn't take her death very well at all even though they weren't together at that point, so he also got way worse. He got a new crackhead girlfriend and blew ALL our money on drugs. So we were homeless a few times and had a really rough stretch. Then we got some money, things got better for a while... then he did it all again. I ended up having to live with him into my 20s because he was in poor health and none of his other kids wanted to deal with him, but that wasn't a good time in my life. Cops were always there, lots of fistfights. Like he just would not stop coming after me with knives and hammers and sh*t when he was high so I'd have to knock him out or at least put him on the ground. One time I tackled him and we went right through the sheet rock. He was about 6'3 240, so it was mostly his momentum that busted the wall more than anything I did, but still... that was kinda f*cked up.

Again, he got kinda forced-sober way later on after he ended up in the hospital for a long time, and then he moved in with my sister, who wasn't his kid (she was my Mom's kid) but he was the one who raised her. Then he got a cold and died of heart failure on Christmas Eve, which was my Mom's Birthday oddly enough. That'll be 10 years ago this year.

We had a long talk about a week or two before he died, and he apologized for everything. So that was good. He admitted, he knew I was always right about everything, but nobody wants their kid telling them what to do and cocaine makes people violent. But he said he shouldn't have put his love of cocaine over raising his kids and that he knew everything he did was wrong and that he wished he could do it over. So for the last time we ever spoke, at least it finally came out.

It's a shame, but it is what it is. I really, really can't stress enough how drugs and alcohol turned my parents into completely different people than who they generally were. At some point, that's ALL they cared about anymore, and that's when things were at their worst. There's really no reason to believe any of the things I went through ever would have happened if they were sober.
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Last edited by Leo656; 07-23-2020 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 07-23-2020, 02:20 PM   #6
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Don't have any, and can't guarantee, but I doubt I would. A swat, sure, but full on whaling on them spanking... that just sounds like loss of control to me and I think I'd be more inclined to swat a kid as called for and move on to another form of punishment that's effective for a kid in question.

My nephew has gotten a swat by me on a very rare occasion, though he's at the defiant 4-year-old age now where they believe it's fine to hit back, as that's the example other adults set, and don't get it. He can be warned against things by being threatened with getting his but swatted, but having things taken away that he doesn't want to lose hits home more with him right now.
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Old 07-23-2020, 02:57 PM   #7
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I edited.

Yeah, they can be tough at that defiant age. I didn't get to the "hit back" stage until I was older and the "swat" was replaced by "fist-to-the-mouth" or "frying-pan-to-the-head". Place was a f*cking zoo. But what am I gonna do, let 'em hit me with a frying pan? Whaaaaat.

I WAS a smartmouth little punk, but most times - when I deserved it - a "swat" was all that was needed to straighten my act up. Because usually it was in front of people and that kinda sh*t's embarrassing. You don't wanna make it worse, so you just pout and take your medicine. No big deal. Those things were always on account of me pushing my luck and not being as "clever" as I thought I was. Acting out for attention. So you get a smack, and everybody's looking at you and you just don't push your luck any further, that's it. I think it builds character, or at least it did for me.

The "beatings" were mostly saved for when I either yelled at them for doing drugs, or for blowing our money on drugs, or for times when I just up and threw out their drugs. Ohhhhh MAN, would I get it for that kinda sh*t. Like, you steal MY Birthday money, and then you beat me up for being mad about it. You guys are awesome, really.

The ways in which I was physically punished, and the reasons for either, were pretty far apart. If I deserved it, smack on the ass or in the mouth. If I DIDN'T deserve it, I got the living sh*t kicked out of me. Like if I hung up on my Mom's drug dealer. Sh*t like that, I'd end up bleeding.

Siiiiigh. "Thoooooooooooose were the daaaaaaaaaaays....." Not every day, thank God. That's still the thing I tell myself. "At least it wasn't EVERY day."
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:51 PM   #8
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funny, I actually made a topic about the topic of spanking all the way back in 2008:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=23165

that was six pages long.

I was spanked. It sucked but it was what I grew up with.

My mom got it worse growing up in Kabo Verde (Cape Verde Islands). They really had a "it takes a village" mentality to kids. Basically any adult could physically discipline a child if they saw fit. And parents always felt that if you got it from a random adult then you must have been acting out and you would get it some more when you got home.

Growing up it was the same mentality for me and my sisters. But something I noticed I think spankings work best on kids who generally do not have privileges to begin with. When I heard kids my age whining about how they got punished with not being allowed to go outside and play or losing TV or phone privileges and getting their allowance taken away or having their "curfew" cut in half...a lot of kids like me (who had ethnic backgrounds) were more strictly monitored/restricted generally didn't have these freedoms to begin with so there was nothing to take away if we acted up. Expect a belt to your butt. I had limited access to going outside and always had to ask first, some of the kids I knew in school could go into their back yard with out asking.

As an adult I think kids are so misbehaved and parents are so permissive it is ridiculous sometimes.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:22 PM   #9
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I agree with you.

My Mom went to Catholic school and got the sh*t beat out of her by the nuns. She used to get drunk and cry about it, and beg me that if I ever had kids I would never, ever send them to Catholic school.

I've heard horror stories, that place sounds pretty extreme. My cousins went to Catholic school and they said the place was packed full of hardcore cokeheads. Like 13-year olds. F*cking zoo. Getting hit by the nuns aside, I'd never send my non-existent kids there anyway because it doesn't seem to work well at instilling any virtues in the kids that go there, quite frankly rather the opposite.
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:53 PM   #10
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I went to a catholic school for first grade while randomly living in Nevada. I remember the teacher forcing my head down to the desk while disciplining me for telling my classmate I didnt have to do the assigned work. Weird, fuzzy little memory.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:05 PM   #11
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Never ever , if you think that you need to spank your child then you already failed hard big time on showing him how the world functions and its really on you, you failed , not the kid.2 years old kid undestands everything you say, its very important time to teach how stuff works and how to behave, you have to start very early and remember youre not raising a kid, youre raising future adult.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:10 PM   #12
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What a mark.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:13 AM   #13
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What is the difference between "yes" and "of course"?

As I grow older, I see less of a point in spanking. It doesn't establish anything other than a physical dominance over a kid. It's not positive behavior modification. The message sent is stronger people are able to exert their power over others. Ethics don't come into the picture, and that's a big problem.

I've taught kindergarten before, and I've seen some absolutely amazing results from talking problems out and coaching kids in proper behavior and better coping skills when confronted with situations that classically provoke bad behavior.
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Old 07-29-2020, 02:17 AM   #14
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Awesome. On my first day of Kindergarten, I saw a kid split another 5-year old's face open with a rock and get expelled. Same kid got kicked out of every school he ever went to and ended up dealing drugs to the whole town by the time he was 15. Arrested dozens of times by then. Dude threatened to stab me once after I caught his friend trying to steal my bike. Swell fella.

Some people come out of the box rotten, and talking doesn't teach 'em anything. There are no "one-size-fits-all" solutions, but I know for a fact that some kids don't respect authority and have to be controlled through fear. Some of them have to.

Obviously those are extremes. But it's absolutely naive to think that talking always works. It doesn't. I own my own sh*t; I was born thinking I was smarter than everybody, nobody could tell me anything, and I've only ever respected power. I came out of the box like that, nobody taught me that. Even the role models I chose for myself, they were The Strongest. Even as a 3-year old, I could not understand why anyone would relate to anyone who was NOT "the strongest", because it was obvious, to me, that that's what you're supposed to be, because Why Not? Why choose to be "weak" if you can be strong? Those ideas were reinforced later on by various external factors, sure, but when I was very young it simply made sense to me that Might Makes Right. To a point I still believe that, because let's face it, that's how the world DOES actually work. How it SHOULD work is irrelevant. In Real Life, people ONLY respect strength, and that's not just Human nature, it's nature in general.

Thus, I only have manners and a moral compass because it was instilled into me through firm consequences. "Don't be a dick OR ELSE." The "or else" being very important. I COULD have taken my "might makes right" attitude and used it to become a real scumbag, but I didn't, because I was shown discipline if I treated people poorly. Gradually, I learned how to genuinely respect and have empathy for other people - to a degree, still a bit of a sociopath, but again, I own it - but the carrot only came after the stick. If you tried to explain to me as a kid that "You can't say/do that, it isn't right," I didn't have the capacity to understand that, and I would literally say, "F*ck 'em, I don't care." Then I'd get slapped, and THAT I understood. Therefore, I didn't misbehave because there was a strong negative reinforcement. It was LATER that I understood that you just can't treat people poorly as a default, on account of it being wrong. But when I was 3, 4, 5, 6 years old? Pssssssh, nobody was gonna tell me jack sh*t.

I wasn't a bad kid. I didn't do bad things, I was just generally very disrespectful and self-worshiping. As many kids are.

This is why I'm an advocate for physical discipline, because I was absolutely one of those kids who would just call you a pussy if you tried to negotiate with me. I didn't respect or respond to it. If my parents never slapped me for talking out of turn, I'd be ten times more of an asshole than I am now. I own that. When I got hit for the RIGHT reasons, they absolutely did me a favor and I absolutely had it coming. And it was never even all that bad, anyway. A slap on the ass or across the cheek stings, but you're not gonna die. But I had it coming a lot of the time, and it made me a better person in the end. I own the fact that I am not generally someone who can be reasoned with, but as a kid it was a LOT worse.

I always say, you can always tell who never got disciplined by their parents, OR ever been in a real fight in their life, because they go around talking to people like sh*t. Everyone - everyone - should have to take a punch at least once in their lives, and thusly understand "Oh... this is a thing that might happen if I'm a dick to people. I sure don't want it to, I guess I'll just Be Nice." Some people ARE just nice as a default, but they're rare. And the assholes? They're ALWAYS someone who's never been properly smacked down, 100% of the time. If you've ever been knocked out even once, or even just got a fat lip, you don't go around treating people like sh*t because you know they just might light you up. Whether it's fear of consequence or just plain altruism... f*ck it, man, whatever keeps people from acting like douchebags.

Thankfully, not every kid needs or requires very much discipline. Some kids? Some definitely do. And the ones who need it and don't get it? They grow up to be terrible people. But they wouldn't have if anyone had properly intervened, instead of trying to be their "pal".

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What is the difference between "yes" and "of course"?
"Of course" is more smug. It implies that one is stupid for even asking the question. Kinda like the difference between "No" and "Go f*ck yourself." Same general answer, totally different intensity.

I mean, you asked.
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