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Old 04-13-2017, 09:49 AM   #21
Andrew NDB
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I can't really look to the cartoons or such... since those are all "out of character moments," as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by Rooish View Post
Don seems a little off in both Mirage Volume 1 TMNT #37 and TMNT #43.

In the former, he has this spiritual revelation and completely loses his mind and thinks himself a shaman. This seems... a little unlikely for someone level headed and rational like Donatello. And by #37 he'd already seen plenty of magic and weird sh*t. He's not, like, Scully, or something.

Also, in 43 he goes entirely the opposite way. While attempting a spiritual exercise that, given his upbringing, Don should have no trouble with, he alternates between petulant and goofy. Even Mikey does better than him. Just seems unusual.
He didn't just grab a cloak and decide that's what he's doing. He was directly being influenced by the specter of the Great Turtle. Hard to refute what you can actively sense, feel and see. And by #37, he's already seen plenty of magic, and weird sh*t. Donatello isn't, like, Scully.

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Old 04-13-2017, 09:51 AM   #22
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And Raphael's personality is pretty weird in The River trilogy. I almost think the story should be Mikey's.
I don't see how.

What annoys me to no end, what's one of my biggest annoyances in the TMNT fandom is how so many people buy into and subscribe to the McTMNT™ pigeonholing of the TMNT that began with FW. i.e., if anyone has anything remotely leader-y to say, it has to be Leonardo, because he's the Leadery One. If someone needs to be the one to get mad in a conversation, it has to be Raph, because he's the Angry One. If someone needs to remark on something techy or brainy, surely it has to be Donatello, because he's the Geeky One. Something funny or a joke? Gotta be Michelangelo, because he's the Funny One. Now if Leonardo were to get mad, or Donatello to make a leadership suggestion? WHOAAA!!! That's so out of character, dude!

Vastly stupid. It's like the fandom is fully content with their Turtles being 1 dimensional.

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Old 04-13-2017, 10:00 AM   #23
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What annoys me to no end, what's one of my biggest annoyances in the TMNT fandom is how so many people buy into and subscribe to the McTMNT™ pigeonholing of the TMNT that began with FW. i.e., if anyone has anything remotely leader-y to say, it has to be Leonardo, because he's the Leadery One. If someone needs to be the one to get mad in a conversation, it has to be Raph, because he's the Angry One. If someone needs to remark on something techy or brainy, surely it has to be Donatello, because he's the Geeky One. Something funny or a joke? Gotta be Michelangelo, because he's the Funny One. Now if Leonardo were to get mad, or Donatello to make a leadership suggestion? WHOAAA!!! That's so out of character, dude!

Vastly stupid. It's like the fandom is fully content with their Turtles being 1 dimensional.
Peter himself is very guilty of this. In his published emails with Lloyd Goldfine, he would constantly shoot things out of the scripts like Leo cracking wise, Don getting pissed, etc.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:08 AM   #24
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Thank you IDW, for having Donatello completely lose his sh*t over no one treating the Technodrome like the threat it was and focusing on the "turf war".

And Michelangelo's conflicts of morality.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
What annoys me to no end, what's one of my biggest annoyances in the TMNT fandom is how so many people buy into and subscribe to the McTMNT™ pigeonholing of the TMNT that began with FW. i.e., if anyone has anything remotely leader-y to say, it has to be Leonardo, because he's the Leadery One. If someone needs to be the one to get mad in a conversation, it has to be Raph, because he's the Angry One. If someone needs to remark on something techy or brainy, surely it has to be Donatello, because he's the Geeky One. Something funny or a joke? Gotta be Michelangelo, because he's the Funny One. Now if Leonardo were to get mad, or Donatello to make a leadership suggestion? WHOAAA!!! That's so out of character, dude!

Vastly stupid. It's like the fandom is fully content with their Turtles being 1 dimensional.
I agree with all that. I like to see the Turtles' individual personalities highlighted, but not reduced to one-dimension.

I like when Leo says something funny, it's great. I appreciate though that in IDW, when he or his brothers are "on-duty", he's all business, very serious, but in their rare downtime, he can kick back finally and be an actual teenager.

I've liked seeing Donnie get mad almost as much as Raph, or when Mikey is the one to call out all his brothers for bickering and getting distracted, when he's often portrayed as the eternally goofy, off-task Turtle. And anytime I get to see Raph crack a joke without also being mad is welcome.

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Thank you IDW, for having Donatello completely lose his sh*t over no one treating the Technodrome like the threat it was and focusing on the "turf war".

And Michelangelo's conflicts of morality.
Those were pretty great moments. That's how you do characterization
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:28 PM   #26
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Turtles Forever.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:53 PM   #27
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If any version counts... I'm still resentful of how the first PD movie (and its Jackass voice replacement) made Leo come across when he throws a big arm around so-called "April" and is all, "Heeeey... glad you could make it."

Thanks. Thanks for making my fave guy in this franchise - a respectful, well mannered, honorable character - sound like some guy who wants to get you into the back of his windowless van, after which you may never be seen again. Did not enjoy being made to feel like telling Megan Fox to run away, and from him of all people. Thanks for that.

That's one of the biggest out of character offenses I can think of. Some others may be bad or ridiculous, but that was despicable. Better film makers could have focused her fear of them purely from her own perspective and misplaced fears, not by making them actually look bad.



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Turtles Forever.
Yeah, definitely have to agree there.

I saw Turtles Forever before I watched the 2003 series. It set me up to expect those Turtles may have jerky personalities. Was glad it turned out not to be the case. Turtles Forever may have tried to make '87 look bad, but it wasn't flattering for 2003 either.


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that began with FW.
I dunno, to the FW series' credit, they do sometimes turn to Donnie like, "What do we do, Donatello??" Leo may be leader and have the responsibility of calling the shots a lot of time, but Donnie is also an ideas guy (and giving him some leadership through that) when the necessary strategies require something that is out of Leo's hands.


I agree, I like them all to have fuller personalities. Although I don't want to see them all merge into being basically duplicates of the same character either. They've got their typical 'mode' that is who they are, but they should all be characters who are capable of having other sides and emotions. Though I wouldn't agree that this doesn't show up at times.

Leo being Mr. Serious a lot, it just makes his own jokes, smiles and laughs all the more sincere; I love that. Then there is the hidden raging bull in him when he IS pissed (not appearing in all versions obviously), when something has just pushed him to that breaking point. (I think he's most fit being a Capricorn, but that boy has a Taurus' anger. lol Slow to get there, but watch out if he does.)

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Old 04-13-2017, 01:10 PM   #28
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If any version counts... I'm still resentful of how the first PD movie (and its Jackass voice replacement) made Leo come across when he throws a big arm around so-called "April" and is all, "Heeeey... glad you could make it."

Thanks. Thanks for making my fave guy in this franchise - a respectful, well mannered, honorable character - sound like some guy who wants to get you into the back of his windowless van, after which you may never be seen again. Did not enjoy being made to feel like telling Megan Fox to run away, and from him of all people. Thanks for that.

That's one of the biggest out of character offenses I can think of. Some others may be bad or ridiculous, but that was despicable. Better film makers could have focused her fear of them purely from her own perspective and misplaced fears, not by making them actually look bad.
More so than how he treated his brothers regarding the purple ooze turning them into humans in Out of the Shadows because that would seem more offensive.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #29
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Agree that does suck too, though I get that he's got his reasons and fears for why he reacted the way he did. (And why I still think the other incident from the first is worse imo, as it has no basis in why he'd come across creepy like that, other than the fact that the writers just wanted us to feel April's fear of them and did it in the poorest and laziest way possible.)

This one at least goes back to a vague arc for Leo/them that the film sets up from the very beginning with the failure of their attempted training exercise. ("I thought you said squirrel formation.") He's not happy with how they are performing as a team, and this remains true for much of the film.

(Although why they'd even fumble on teamwork now after taking down Shredder and others together last time is kind of stupid.)

He's struggling to handle it, esp after the failure of not stopping Shredder from escaping, and taking it hard that he can't get them working better as a team. Splinter tells him that as long as he keeps "the team unified, and you shall always succeed." And then along comes this new mutagen that is a threat of tearing the team/family apart... So much for keeping unified as Splinter requested.

Looking at the underlying reasons of why he would react as he did, in my view, it isn't just "Leo is being a jerk, the end." I don't take him as being a jerk in that, but was he wrong in how he handled it? Yes. (And to his own fault, Splinter could have guided him a bit better and shared some of the blame, given what he says to Leo in the novelization that wasn't included in the film's dialogue.) But he did so out of his own fear and concerns; for both his family and a loss of control that could result in him failing to do the job asked of him. Not helped by "Keep the team unified..." from rat dad earlier in it. It's all aiming at one of Leo's biggest flaws, his fear of failure.

That one quiet arc, that the average non-fan viewer may not even notice, is one thing I have to give that film a little credit for. When everything else this company tried to write is so over the top, in this one way they somewhat managed to weave a subtle underlying story with a little bit of depth into it. (Even if team work problems randomly occurring now was kind of dumb.)
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:08 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
What annoys me to no end, what's one of my biggest annoyances in the TMNT fandom is how so many people buy into and subscribe to the McTMNT™ pigeonholing of the TMNT that began with FW. i.e., if anyone has anything remotely leader-y to say, it has to be Leonardo, because he's the Leadery One. If someone needs to be the one to get mad in a conversation, it has to be Raph, because he's the Angry One. If someone needs to remark on something techy or brainy, surely it has to be Donatello, because he's the Geeky One. Something funny or a joke? Gotta be Michelangelo, because he's the Funny One. Now if Leonardo were to get mad, or Donatello to make a leadership suggestion? WHOAAA!!! That's so out of character, dude!

Vastly stupid. It's like the fandom is fully content with their Turtles being 1 dimensional.
This is one of the few things you and I truly agree on 100%. Infact I just bought a TMNT beach towel the other day at Wal*Mart, and guess which of the four Turtles happened to have an angry scowl while the other three were smirking? For once it was Michelangelo. The whole time I can't help but picture a certain someone from the fandom saying "No, that's not how Mikey's supposed to be."
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:12 PM   #31
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I never looked at it that way. You make a very good point.

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That one quiet arc, that the average non-fan viewer may not even notice, is one thing I have to give that film a little credit for. When everything else this company tried to write is so over the top, in this one way they somewhat managed to weave a subtle underlying story with a little bit of depth into it. (Even if team work problems randomly occurring now was kind of dumb.)
While you're not wrong about this, at the same time compared to the first film as horrendous as that plot was, this one I felt had no plot but random events occurring within each scene which didn't feel coherent.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:46 PM   #32
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One reason Fred Wolf Donatello stands out is because he has one of the biggest tempers of all the Donatello's, and he actually acts like the leader more than Leonardo in many episodes. Seriously, in almost every episode all the Turtles would turn to Donatello in how to save the day or stop something from happening, rather than Leonardo.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:56 PM   #33
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One reason Fred Wolf Donatello stands out is because he has one of the biggest tempers of all the Donatello's, and he actually acts like the leader more than Leonardo in many episodes. Seriously, in almost every episode all the Turtles would turn to Donatello in how to save the day or stop something from happening, rather than Leonardo.
That was most likely due to the more sci-fi oriented aspect of the series. Had the show been more centered around taking on crime syndicates and such like other interpretations, then Leo would have been far more take-charge.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:19 PM   #34
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This is one of the few things you and I truly agree on 100%. Infact I just bought a TMNT beach towel the other day at Wal*Mart, and guess which of the four Turtles happened to have an angry scowl while the other three were smirking? For once it was Michelangelo. The whole time I can't help but picture a certain someone from the fandom saying "No, that's not how Mikey's supposed to be."
LOL I think I may have that same towel. I thought it was interesting that he was the one with the fierce look while the others all have smiles or look like they are laughing. Truth be told I love it when they have other sides to them as it makes them all the more relatable.
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:25 PM   #35
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I don't see how.

What annoys me to no end, what's one of my biggest annoyances in the TMNT fandom is how so many people buy into and subscribe to the McTMNT™ pigeonholing of the TMNT that began with FW. i.e., if anyone has anything remotely leader-y to say, it has to be Leonardo, because he's the Leadery One. If someone needs to be the one to get mad in a conversation, it has to be Raph, because he's the Angry One. If someone needs to remark on something techy or brainy, surely it has to be Donatello, because he's the Geeky One. Something funny or a joke? Gotta be Michelangelo, because he's the Funny One. Now if Leonardo were to get mad, or Donatello to make a leadership suggestion? WHOAAA!!! That's so out of character, dude!

Vastly stupid. It's like the fandom is fully content with their Turtles being 1 dimensional.
Oh my God, what a soap box.

I think most fans can understand the characters are more than just Leader, Angry Dude, Nerd and Jokester. You know I don't really like the Fred Wolf series right? My problem with all those issues was that the characters acted a bit off in what seemed like attempts to advance the plot. But you can just continue arguing against a straw man.

It's all subjective and the characters seem off to me in your fan fictions sometimes, too.

On an unrelated note, I forgot the most ooc moment ever. Mikey becoming a pro genocide advocate in volume 4! I guess that's what trauma can do to you. But I liked it better when he was written by Murphy to rescue that guy who tortured him. True strength of spirit there.

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Old 04-13-2017, 06:10 PM   #36
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I never looked at it that way. You make a very good point.



While you're not wrong about this, at the same time compared to the first film as horrendous as that plot was, this one I felt had no plot but random events occurring within each scene which didn't feel coherent.
Yeah, definitely agree. I don't know how they can manage to do a little better on trying to focus on the brothers a bit more, which I do appreciate and like about it, but then the rest of the entire film is just a mishmash that never amounts to much. Maybe these writers should have taken up different careers.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:42 AM   #37
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Mikey being scolded a lot by the other Turtles for goofing off in "Havoc in the Streets".
I was just going to mention that!! I hated that part of the episode!! Sure, it was essential to the plot, but still. I can understand if he did that while Shredder and Krang were an active threat at the moment, but after what Titanus and co. had done in the previous episode, why did Michaelangelo suddenly decide to start goofing off?
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #38
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Peter himself is very guilty of this. In his published emails with Lloyd Goldfine, he would constantly shoot things out of the scripts like Leo cracking wise, Don getting pissed, etc.
In Peter's defence, in many contexts, those were lines that literally look like another turtle's precise dialogue. If a line is very slangy, Leo is probably not the name that should be above it
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:21 PM   #39
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In Peter's defence, in many contexts, those were lines that literally look like another turtle's precise dialogue. If a line is very slangy, Leo is probably not the name that should be above it
Peter also prevented many completely nonsensical plot elements. And although he did spend a lot of time making sure no other Turtle acted like Mikey, that was probably a good thing as one is enough. And although I disliked that Mikey was always the doofus, the series did a pretty good job at rounding him out and giving him some development. At least he was a damn good fighter--probably second best after Leo.

I think there are many moments in the franchise where Don makes leadership decisions or gets pissed off (particularly in Mirage and in the Fred Wolf series). Leo had goofy moments that weren't too put of character in the 1990 movie, as did Don. Raph is usually kind of the same but Fred Wolf gave us an interesting interpretation, and he's practically the only sane one / straight man in the Nick toon. So all the Turtles have had variation and development outside of their archetypes in nearly every incarnation. As dumb as Michaelangelo could be in Fred Wolf, at least he stopped just being a background character like in Mirage.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:23 PM   #40
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On an unrelated note, I forgot the most ooc moment ever. Mikey becoming a pro genocide advocate in volume 4! I guess that's what trauma can do to you. But I liked it better when he was written by Murphy to rescue that guy who tortured him. True strength of spirit there.
100% agree with this.
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