New TRiple Crown Winner!!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by turtle1237

He won 2 out of 2, since he never was in the 3rd race lol. Again a argument over Man O War's owner over something petty that stop the legend from competing. Man O War's blood line is a strong one, Not only War Admiral, but the underdog Seabiscuit was of Man O War's line, Not sure which race horse today are from Man O War's line.

Also, it was the Derby that he didn't run, just to clarify. The first "leg" of the Crown. He won the other two pretty easily.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Oh yes, he could have, easily. He won 20 out of 21 starts, after all! If you read his history, he was THE best horse of his time, hands down, particularly as a stud. Much like Secretariat(TCW) was in HIS day. Man o' War sired such winners as Hard Tack, War Hero, War Glory(whose daughter War Whisk was the mother of 1962 Triple Crown champ Decidedly!), War Relic(sire of Battlefield, Intent, Relaunch, Known Fact, and Missile, to name a few), Battleship, Blockade, Crusader, Maid at Arms, Nellie Flag, American Flag, and Lady Glory, among others.

And yes, Seabiscuit was also out of his line(grandson). And Kelso, Personal Ensign, War Emblem, and.... Basically, one can track his line through War Admiral(a TCW!) and others he sired- 379 in 22 seasons at stud- and many of those also sired (or dammed) dozens of winners themselves, and so on. Some of his sons and daughters (or grand and even great-grandchildren) were also exported to Britain, France, and Japan, among other places, further spreading his line.

Some famous later descendants- Alydar(TCW), Strike the Gold, Big Brown, Silver Charm, Mine That Bird, Alysheba(TCW), Affirmed(TCW), Winning Colors(filly and KD winner) Seattle Slew, Real Quiet, Barbaro, Zenyatta(filly), Charismatic, Cigar, Curlin, Smarty Jones, Black Caviar(Aussie filly), Skip Away.....

War Admiral was perhaps one of the greatness race horses there ever was, even losing a good part of his foot in his victory that made him the triple crown winner, than next year he losing's to Seabiscuit, and during the build up War Admiral was pretty much made the villain by the media, when really he was just a horse?? But I do think the defeat knock War Admiral in the media eyes as a truly great horse. I was watching American Pharaoh win the triple crown, and they mention Secretariat, and Seattle Slew, and a few other Triple crown winners, and outside War Admiral named running down at the bottom of the screen with the other THAN 11 winners, He never gets a mention. Did that lost really knock War Admiral out of the media's mind? I don't think it should mean much any way since War Admiral prove his greatness the year before, All the greats lose some time, but it really hurt War Admiral standing wise vs the other great race horses.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

It's not so much a case of being "villainized", as Seabiscuit was considered a clear underdog- and we all know how people LOVE underdogs. Actually, War Admiral is in the Hall of Fame as one of the leading sires as well as winners of all time. It's primarily because of him and one or two of MOW's other sons (and SEVERAL of his daughters) that that line did so well. What is so amazing is that the line has CONSISTANTLY given great runners, breeders, and many record-setters. Admiral rightfully deserved his reputation and honors, but so did Seabiscuit. The difference is that ONE was bred and raised by a large, wealthy stable with resources to enter him in all the BIG races; the other- WASN'T. But he was just as good, and his pedigree showed it, even if he didn't have the same opportunities.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

It's not so much a case of being "villainized", as Seabiscuit was considered a clear underdog- and we all know how people LOVE underdogs. Actually, War Admiral is in the Hall of Fame as one of the leading sires as well as winners of all time. It's primarily because of him and one or two of MOW's other sons (and SEVERAL of his daughters) that that line did so well. What is so amazing is that the line has CONSISTANTLY given great runners, breeders, and many record-setters. Admiral rightfully deserved his reputation and honors, but so did Seabiscuit. The difference is that ONE was bred and raised by a large, wealthy stable with resources to enter him in all the BIG races; the other- WASN'T. But he was just as good, and his pedigree showed it, even if he didn't have the same opportunities.

I am not saying Seabiscuit was not great, but ever since that race, who got the fame, the media love, and of course, NOT 1 movie, but 2 movies base on his life, The Shirley Temple movie in the late 40's? And of course The Toby movie we got a few years ago. When is War Admiral going to get his movie, about the pains of losing a good part of his foot for the crown, his history of having trouble when the gates they used, Injured history of both horses vs Seabiscuit, Which brings other point, the 2nd movie makes it seem the owners of War Admiral were ducking a match with Seabiscuit, but the 6 matches that got cancel, IN REAL LIFE, Seabiscuit got injured 5 times, and War Admiral got hurt one time, so it was not one sided ducking the other side, they just could not keep there horses healthy for the match and thus had to post phone the match.

Once both horses were ready, they had a match for the ages, when the Admiral losing a very CLOSE match, who knows, perhaps a rematch could of had the Admiral on top? A shame it never happen. But War Admiral does get a lot of media hate.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ive never seen any media hate for him. Hes always mentioned with a lot of respect, especially for his breeding contributions. And being on of the earliest Crown winners is no small acheivement, either. If nothing else, he gets a lot of props from the media for that. The thing about that match is that we were just coming out of WWII, and people needed something to rally behind. Seabiscuit being the "underdog" gave the country something to get behind. If hed lost, WA still would have had his record, and then some, but losing to Seabiscuit proved that he wasnt unbeatable like everyone thought, and it gave people in lower classes something to point to as "one of ours".

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Ive never seen any media hate for him. Hes always mentioned with a lot of respect, especially for his breeding contributions. And being on of the earliest Crown winners is no small acheivement, either. If nothing else, he gets a lot of props from the media for that. The thing about that match is that we were just coming out of WWII, and people needed something to rally behind. Seabiscuit being the "underdog" gave the country something to get behind. If hed lost, WA still would have had his record, and then some, but losing to Seabiscuit proved that he wasnt unbeatable like everyone thought, and it gave people in lower classes something to point to as "one of ours".

Well any one can lose at any giving time, unless your 49-0 Rocky Marciano or the undefeated Miami Dolphins from the 1970's.

WA did lose predated the match with Seabiscuit. It happens in all sports, any one can be beaten. Even the great Man O War who was as close to perfect race wise, was beaten once. Almost a perfect 22-0 record lol.

The funny thing about MOW, is near the end, no one wanted to race MOW, and there was even talks to weight MOW down just so to give the other horses a sporting chance. crazy talk.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

True, but it was their reputations as powerhouses on the track that made them SEEM unbeatable- which is why some didn't want to race against MOW. Horse racing has often been as much about track politics and media spin as it has about track records of individual horses or jockeys. Horses with great records get the most publicity, obviously, especially when they have good pedigrees and come from proven winning lines.

In the case of WA and SB, they were BOTH out of the same line, so it was win-win, since either side winning would prove that the line gave champions consistently. It was as much a match of breeding vs. track history as just a straight up race. Did the better horse win? Who knows. But both ended up more famous because of it, and both also ended up proving MOW's greatness as a stud, as well as their own in the future.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

And he's done it again! After today's win in the Breeder's Cup, American Pharaoh has now become the FIRST horse to win a "grand slam" by winning both the Triple Crown AND the Breeder's Cup, thus securing his place in history and most likely a shoe in for Horse of the Year. He will be remembered alongside Secretariat, Affirmed, War Admiral, and others- and as the first Breeder's Cup winner since its inception in 1984 to also be a Crown winner, that puts him in a special place as the ONLY grand slam winner thus far- Affirmed won the Crown BEFORE the Breeder's Cup began, so as the last previous Crown winner, he couldn't have won both. Two horses have had near misses, one being Sunday Silence in 1989, but both lost one leg of the Crown.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

And he's done it again! After today's win in the Breeder's Cup, American Pharaoh has now become the FIRST horse to win a "grand slam" by winning both the Triple Crown AND the Breeder's Cup, thus securing his place in history and most likely a shoe in for Horse of the Year. He will be remembered alongside Secretariat, Affirmed, War Admiral, and others- and as the first Breeder's Cup winner since its inception in 1984 to also be a Crown winner, that puts him in a special place as the ONLY grand slam winner thus far- Affirmed won the Crown BEFORE the Breeder's Cup began, so as the last previous Crown winner, he couldn't have won both. Two horses have had near misses, one being Sunday Silence in 1989, but both lost one leg of the Crown.

Its seems American Pharaoh can do no wrong lol. I wonder as time goes on, will Pharaoh be called the greatness race horse of all time?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Not sure if any horse can top Secretariat in that respect- he still holds several records- but he'll be right up there!

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Not sure if any horse can top Secretariat in that respect- he still holds several records- but he'll be right up there!

Well yeah speed wise, Secretariat is perhaps number 1, But what American Pharaoh has done, Not only being a triple crown winner, but being a breeders cup winner, sometimes I think titles can trump records. I don't think any horse will repeat the time Secretariat set when he won the crown, and it was a once in a life time performance. But I think at the movement American Pharaoh can have a argument as number 1.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, to be fair, since the Breeder's Cup didn't yet exist in Secretariat's time (not begun until 1984), that can't be really compared. If it had been, he probably would have walked away with that one, too. So it's really speed in the existing races at the time one has to look at.

[BubblyShell22]

I totally forgot about the Breeder's Cup, or I would have watched it. Ah, well, congrats to American Pharoah.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Well, to be fair, since the Breeder's Cup didn't yet exist in Secretariat's time (not begun until 1984), that can't be really compared. If it had been, he probably would have walked away with that one, too. So it's really speed in the existing races at the time one has to look at.

But he did lose 2 races after winning the triple crown though. So perhaps Secretariat could stumble in the Breeder's cup. It could happen.

about 37 years with out a triple crown winner, and than we get a grand slam on top of that. I don't think we see something like that in a while.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Agreed. It makes me so glad I was able to watch all of them! I can say I've seen horse racing history as it happened, and it's probably the only time in my life that will happen. Woot!

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Agreed. It makes me so glad I was able to watch all of them! I can say I've seen horse racing history as it happened, and it's probably the only time in my life that will happen. Woot!

You never know, triple crown winners seem to come 3's or 4's and than take a break, than to return again.

In the 1930's though the 40's, there seem to be a winner every 3 or 4 years.

Than a major drought in the 1950's though the 1960's. Secretariat ended the drought in the 70's, with Seattle Slew and Affirmed following. Than other drought follow, so perhaps in a few years time other horse or 2 can follow what American Pharoah like Slew and Affirmed did for Secretariat.

The history of the crown winners just seem years of winners, drought, follow by other series of champions.

[shuriken]

That is pretty neat. Not a huge fan of j=horse racing but that is quite impressive.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Bumping this for the Belmont today.

Could it be about to happen again? Justify is about to run the Belmont, after having won the first two legs of the Triple Crown. Here's hoping for another TC winner!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Unbelievable! Second time in three years, and Justify led from start to finish! He was first at the post (drew the first slot in the starting gate- prime starting position next to the inside ffence) and led all the way, keeping a good, but relatively easy pace for the pack. He opened it up (though it looked like he might have still been holding back a bit) in the final turn at the last 1/4 mile, and they never caught up to him. There was a moment or two where it looked like a couple of them might, but too late, as he had already put a length or more between them, and there was not enough time or distance to close the gap.

Triple Crown Winner!!

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Unbelievable! Second time in three years, and Justify led from start to finish! He was first at the post (drew the first slot in the starting gate- prime starting position next to the inside ffence) and led all the way, keeping a good, but relatively easy pace for the pack. He opened it up (though it looked like he might have still been holding back a bit) in the final turn at the last 1/4 mile, and they never caught up to him. There was a moment or two where it looked like a couple of them might, but too late, as he had already put a length or more between them, and there was not enough time or distance to close the gap.

Triple Crown Winner!!

Seems my Post on long droughts and 2 or 3 Champions seems to ring true lol.