Pro Wrestling Discussion

[The Deadman]

Matt Cappotelli’s Health Reportedly Declining, Cancer Treatments Discontinued
https://411mania.com/wrestling/matt-...-discontinued/

[ZariusTwo]

Cena and Nikki spotted together

http://nodq.com/news/528774376.shtml

[ZariusTwo]

FOX have secured the rights to air Smackdown

http://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/2...smackdown-live

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Cena and Nikki spotted together

http://nodq.com/news/528774376.shtml

Told ya it was a work.

[MikeandRaph87]

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/...n-reigns-more/

This made me think. I believe I brought it up before,but is it mpre important to have few titles and longer reigns or just because the company feels any wrestler of relevance needs to hold the biggest title? I mean you have Bruno San MArtino have two title reigns that lasted 12 years combined, Bob Buckland and Hulk Hogan have lengthy runs. Granted Hulk between two companies had twelve titles. I think more of his length in holding titles combined. Also for every title won there is one less loss. Its the reason why I disagree about the decision to finally make Roman a champion for 5 minutes then Shameaus takes it off of him. Just to add to the x time champion later ( and attempt to add sympathy,but that isn't the point here). Or other examples like the very brief reign of Kane just to count him a world champion like the other notables of his era. It seems like the Attitude era trying to crown many stars felt the biggest prize needed to be passed around and it cheapened the WWE championship/heavyweight championship. Just an observation, but you more hardcore fans can definitely give insight to this argument.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/...n-reigns-more/

This made me think. I believe I brought it up before,but is it mpre important to have few titles and longer reigns or just because the company feels any wrestler of relevance needs to hold the biggest title? I mean you have Bruno San MArtino have two title reigns that lasted 12 years combined, Bob Buckland and Hulk Hogan have lengthy runs. Granted Hulk between two companies had twelve titles. I think more of his length in holding titles combined. Also for every title won there is one less loss. Its the reason why I disagree about the decision to finally make Roman a champion for 5 minutes then Shameaus takes it off of him. Just to add to the x time champion later ( and attempt to add sympathy,but that isn't the point here). Or other examples like the very brief reign of Kane just to count him a world champion like the other notables of his era. It seems like the Attitude era trying to crown many stars felt the biggest prize needed to be passed around and it cheapened the WWE championship/heavyweight championship. Just an observation, but you more hardcore fans can definitely give insight to this argument.

I agree. That 5 minute Reign should not count. Sheamus' reign there should not have count cause it solely to spite Reigns and not because he wanted to be the champ.

That's why I hated the Sasha Banks/Charlotte hot potato title reign, because those reigns barely count in the long run and it was mostly they didn't want Charlotte to break some sort of PPV streak. I honestly wanted Charlotte to just lose the rematch and go away and give Sasha a decent lengthy reign. How can she be 'The Boss' if she have at least a 3 or so month undefeated title reign?

[dl316bh]

Bruno Sammartino lived in a different time, one where he could wrestle in Madison Square Garden once a month and no one bat an eyelash. Same for Hogan, though that kind of champion died with him because regular televised wrestling became a regular thing. If they tried that today, the result would be Roman Reigns holding the WWE title for three years, even if people just got up and walked out of events or the houses emptied. Wrestling has changed a lot and it's not like people rush to go watch old Bruno Sammartino matches, as important to wrestling as the man legitimately was.

Hell, we have a modern equivalent. Brock Lesnar. Everyone hates him because he shows up and defends the belt infrequently, even thought many people on the wrestling side of the business has pointed out that he's like a super old school champion to defend him.

Anyway, I had a whole big thing, but really, it wasn't worth it, because it's easier just to point out that it's not that big a deal. We've had memorable short reigns. We've had snoozer long reigns. We're in the middle of one. AJ Styles will have held the WWE title, in a combined two reigns, for a few days shy of a full year by Money in the Bank, accumulated over a year and a half. Most of it's been forgettable, despite top caliber opponents. Some of it's not his fault, but it's undeniable.

If we want to talk de-canonizing short reigns, well, we'd all better be prepared to throw Dusty Rhodes and Mick Foley in the trash, then, because neither of them held their respective titles, three a piece, for longer than a cup of coffee.

I agree. That 5 minute Reign should not count. Sheamus' reign there should not have count cause it solely to spite Reigns and not because he wanted to be the champ.

They still won the title. It doesn't matter how quickly they lost it. In kayfabe, they won it, so it's a reign. Now, if you want to make the argument that it was stupid, I'm less inclined to disagree. But I find the whole thing funny. They were trying so hard to get Reigns over they resorted to aping the Daniel Bryan story to a tee, forgetting that for it to work the guy has to be over, or no one cares if he got screwed.

[The Deadman]

There's nothing wrong with long reigns in this day and age, but they can get kinda boring when the champion literally defeats everyone on the roster almost. For example, Jay Lethal was one of the longest reigning ROH Champions in recent history and he pretty much beat everyone on the roster, on tv and house shows. That can get stale fast.

[ZariusTwo]

Yeah, long reigns in the modern era are nothing new, we had plenty in the 2000s too, Batista held the world title from april 2005 to January 2006, Cena had a similar reign with the WWE title, and for his third reign, he was champion from September 2006 to October 2007, with that only ending via injury, and he'd beaten just about everyone at that point.

I didn't see many complain when Punk had the longest reign of the modern era either, but then, he's Punk.

[Coola Yagami]

True but I see it as, if you're the champ, then you're top of the heap. You should be better than most. That's why I hate short title reigns, it makes it look like they won it not because they're the best but because it was a fluke.

[AT-Man]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

True but I see it as, if you're the champ, then you're top of the heap. You should be better than most. That's why I hate short title reigns, it makes it look like they won it not because they're the best but because it was a fluke.

You can be the best for one second. There's also usually some kind of shenanigans and tomfoolery involved, like the MITB or a betrayal of sorts.

[MikeandRaph87]

Is there a meet in the middle? I mean instead of getting it for five minutes to a week is a joke, just to say the wrestler had the title yet not for a year plus. Solid matches for six months before passing it to another solid wrestler.

Before the Attitude Era started the hot potato some top wrestlers missed out on the biggest belt and maybe some since. Who was the best to never be the champion? Rowdy Roddy Piper would be my pick.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I didn't see many complain when Punk had the longest reign of the modern era either, but then, he's Punk.

Man, Punks reign. I enjoyed Punks moment of glory as a long reigning WWE champion, but that was half a good reign followed by half a middling one. The first half, he was kicking ass with top shelf opponents like Alberto Del Rio, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Chris Jericho and a motivated John Cena. Then at some point after the heel turn his promos started to be great again, but the matches slipped. I still don't understand what they did with Ryback - which kind of screwed the character but good - and John Cena just would not stay out of the title scene, despite the "worst year of his career". Punk was struggling with injury for part of it, too.

Still, it evens out. It was a fun WWE title reign.

You can be the best for one second. There's also usually some kind of shenanigans and tomfoolery involved, like the MITB or a betrayal of sorts.

Yeah, the short ones are usually because of MitB shenanigans and kick off storylines. Take Seth Rollins, for example. He came in as the champion who never lost his title, managed to get in a match with the company golden boy and took him out CLEAN, something guys rarely got to do then. Then Dean screwed him over, but that was because of the briefcase after a long match, which doesn't nullify that Seth beat Roman with a sick counter and got to prove that yeah, he was the best. It also helped kick off the slow burn face turn.

Yeah, long reigns in the modern era are nothing new, we had plenty in the 2000s too, Batista held the world title from april 2005 to January 2006, Cena had a similar reign with the WWE title, and for his third reign, he was champion from September 2006 to October 2007, with that only ending via injury, and he'd beaten just about everyone at that point.

Even just recently, the title doesn't hot potato that badly. Say what you want about the reign, WWE held the course with Jinder Mahal and let him hold it for six or seven months. AJ Styles has two reigns, the first four months and the second will be close to eight by Money in the Bank. Seth Rollins and Brock Lesnar both had it for about two hundred twenty days. Randy Orton had a hundred and sixty days. Daniel Bryans was only cut short because of injury (it's come out the original plan was that he'd be the one to lose to Brock at Summerslam instead of Cena, so that would have been over a hundred days were it not for circumstance). Dean Ambrose had it for three months. There will be some short reigns, but WWE's definitely not allergic to long reigns like it seemed they used to be. Not anymore at least.

Is there a meet in the middle? I mean instead of getting it for five minutes to a week is a joke, just to say the wrestler had the title yet not for a year plus. Solid matches for six months before passing it to another solid wrestler.

That's fair, but that's been happening more often recently. The WWE, IC and Universal titles have had quite a few long reigns this decade. I think the worst offender for the hot potato and the one that can absolutely have a case made for is the US title, though. That belt changes hands a bit too much recently. But then, I don't know, if the matches were great, would it bother us as much? Everyone loves the WCW cruiserweights and that title changed hands all the time. It's probably more complicated than we give it credit for sometimes.

Before the Attitude Era started the hot potato some top wrestlers missed out on the biggest belt and maybe some since. Who was the best to never be the champion? Rowdy Roddy Piper would be my pick.

The fact that Jake Roberts never held a title - any title - in the WWF is almost criminal.

But my number one pick?

F***ing Vader.

That dude should have been WWF champion at least once and wrecked people like he got to in WCW. He looked and wrestled like a legit monster. Could have been a damn good heel champ, but HBK got pissy so...

[XERO]

I agree with Jake not winning any title. He was so believable with his promos and ring psychology that he was extremely captivating. He probably would've been pure main event material if the planned feud with Hogan went out the way it was supposed.

Ironically, his OWN charisma halted that push. For those not in the loop, around the 80's, Jake was supposed to be in a big angle with Hogan for the world title, and they even did a segment on Jake's talk show, the Snake Pit. At the end, he gave Hogan the DDT, setting up for the planned feud. However, instead of the fans booing Jake, they cheered the hell out of him. And if you are winning over fans from Hulkamania, that's a no no.

But DAMN... just imagine the insane promos that could've happened in that. Hogan and Roberts would've made each other look like a million bucks.

[The Deadman]

- Mike Johnson of PWInsiderElite.com commented on Big Cass' status with WWE. Here is what Johnson said courtesy of RingsideNews.com:

"Nothing is working for Colin Cassidy right now. He’s back on crutches. From what I understand he’s going to go check out to see if he needs ACL surgery again. If that’s the case, that is bad, bad news for him."

I guess Big Cass' knee is S-A-W-F-T

[dl316bh]

I was right. Last Man Standing. What a letdown.

Originally Posted by The Deadman

I guess Big Cass' knee is S-A-W-F-T

He's not s***ting about it being bad news for Cass, either, not just because of the obvious. There's no way for WWE to lose faith in you faster than to get injured several times in quick succession. You only really get away with that if you're already "made". It's not going to help that neither of his solo pushes were working out well and Enzo Amore's not around anymore to get the band back together.

However, instead of the fans booing Jake, they cheered the hell out of him. And if you are winning over fans from Hulkamania, that's a no no.

Yeah, the WWF was stupid careful about protecting Hogans heat back then, so I'm not surprised to hear about this. It sucks, too. I mean, no way Jake won the title from Hogan, but that would have been a money feud and maybe positioned the guy a bit better for maybe an Intercontinental title run.

It's amazing to me that guy was as good as he was and in the WWF (and later WCW) for as long as he was only to never win a single thing in any major company outside of lower tier territories like Mid-South.

[ZariusTwo]

Wow, Karma really has it in for Cass for that midget beat-down

[The Deadman]

ROH Honor United: Edinburgh 2018

– Shane Taylor defeated Scorpion Sky @ 7:10 via pin [**½]
– Non-Title Match: IWGP Tag Team Champions EVIL & SANADA defeated The Addiction @ 10:30 via pin [**¾]
– Kelly Klein & Chardonnay defeated Tenille Dashwood & Sumie Sakai @ 9:45 via pin [**]
– Punishment Martinez defeated Kenny King @ 11:35 via pin [***¼]
– The Young Bucks defeated Nick Aldis & Mark Haskins @ 17:05 via pin [***½]
– The Boys defeated Yano & Delirious @ 12:25 via pin[*]
– ROH TV Title Match: TV Champion Silas Young defeated Joe Hendry @ 14:10 via pin [***]
– ROH Six-Man Title Match: Champions The Kingdom defeated Hiroshi Tanahashi, Jay Lethal, & Dalton Castle @ 18:50 via pin [**]
– ROH Tag Team Title Match: Champions The Briscoes defeated Cody & Adam Page @ 19:17 via pin [***¼]

[MikeandRaph87]

I watch Survivor and was surprised when I heard a professional wrestler was apart of next season's cast. However despite his claim of being a champion everywhere he went I never heard of him. John Hennigan is his name. I thought you more die-hards would have though.

https://www.si.com/wrestling/2018/05...ivor-season-37

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I watch Survivor and was surprised when I heard a professional wrestler was apart of next season's cast. However despite his claim of being a champion everywhere he went I never heard of him. John Hennigan is his name. I thought you more die-hards would have though.

https://www.si.com/wrestling/2018/05...ivor-season-37

I'm surprised you don't know him. He's been around the block in wrestling, working for most of the major wrestling promotions in the US and Mexico, and was a mid card fixture in WWE for most of his nine years there. In WWE, he was John Morrison and was a multiple time IC champion, a four time tag champion (with Joey Mercury and The Miz) and WWECW Champion. In Lucha Underground and AAA he's known as Johnny Mundo and he's Lucha Undergrounds second Triple Crown champion (he held the LU championship, Gift of the Gods and Trios championships once each) as well as a fixture in AAA, where he was the Mega Champion - their top title - for close to a year on top of a Latin American and Cruiserweight title reign, all three at the same time for about a hundred plus days. In Impact, he's Johnny Impact, working there through an agreement between AAA and Impact and while he hasn't held a title there yet, he's been in world title contention and I imagine will hold it there at some point.

He's one of those guys I hope pulls a Drew McIntyre and, if he ever goes back to WWE, returns leveled up and ready to be a bigger star than he was. I liked him in WWE, but he wasn't as good as he is now. Dude's really freaking great in Lucha Underground. I don't know how he's fared in Impact, but it sounds like he's been in pretty good matches there too.

I wish he'd drop Starship Pain/End of the World as a finisher, though. It's unique, but he's often had trouble hitting it flush. Though it seemed to get much better in Lucha Underground.