How would you rank the Turtles from 2k3 in order of preference?

[NeonTurtledude]

Raphael - I always thought he looked so cool and badass when he'd fight, I love his Brooklyn accent and his friendship with Casey Jones

Leonardo - he's a good leader to the others, I like how his 2k3 self had more development

Donatello - I like him but I don't relate to him very much, but he's a sweet dude and his intelligence with science and machinery is handy for a lot of situations

Michelangelo - he's my favourite turtle but he is very underdeveloped, I liked his scenes with Klunk though, he can be sweet sometimes, but I still prefer 87 and 2012 mikey over him.

[Cowabung-Gal]

1. Michelangelo. (Of course he’s my favorite turtle in every incarnation)

2. Donatello

3. Leonardo

4. Raphael (Screw him. He’s a bully toward Mikey; he even tried to bash Mikey’s skull with a pipe once!)

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

4. Raphael (Screw him. He’s a bully toward Mikey; he even tried to bash Mikey’s skull with a pipe once!)

I think by Season 3 and beyond we all wanted to.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

4. Raphael (Screw him. He’s a bully toward Mikey; he even tried to bash Mikey’s skull with a pipe once!)

How familiar are you with the source material?

Spoiler:

Because the same basic thing happened there. And the 2012 show did that moment too, just with Leo instead of Mike.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by neatoman

How familiar are you with the source material?

Spoiler:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/MB6RUPydpp...ZhcmkvNTM3LjM2

Because the same basic thing happened there. And the 2012 show did that moment too, just with Leo instead of Mike.

Yeah, I’m aware of the source material. 2k3 TMNT is the most faithful adaptation of the Mirage comics. But at least they were best friends in the original comics; in the 2003 series, Raph constantly bullied and treated Mikey like a nuisance. He became excited at the thought of humiliating and beating Mikey up during the Battle Nexus Tournament. He was just a crummy brother (who hasn’t had one?)

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Yeah, I’m aware of the source material. 2k3 TMNT is the most faithful adaptation of the Mirage comics. But at least they were best friends in the original comics; in the 2003 series, Raph constantly bullied and treated Mikey like a nuisance. He became excited at the thought of humiliating and beating Mikey up during the Battle Nexus Tournament. He was just a crummy brother (who hasn’t had one?)

Can't the same basic criticism also be applied to the 2012 show?

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Can't the same basic criticism also be applied to the 2012 show?

Yes, Raph did pick on Mikey from time to time in the 2012 series, but at least you knew that he loved his little brother. He was usually the first to rush to Mikey’s side whenever he was in trouble and was very protective of him. He has hugged Mikey more than once (when has 2k3 Raph ever hugged Mikey?). He even affectionately calls Mikey “Little Brother”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnWikCDrrak

A pretty big contrast to what I’ve seen in the 2003 series.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Yes, Raph did pick on Mikey from time to time in the 2012 series, but at least you knew that he loved his little brother. He was usually the first to rush to Mikey’s side whenever he was in trouble and was very protective of him. He has hugged Mikey more than once (when has 2k3 Raph ever hugged Mikey?). He even affectionately calls Mikey “Little Brother”.

A pretty big contrast to what I’ve seen in the 2003 series.

I don't know if I buy that. Everyone in the 2012 series kinda treated Mikey like the autistic little brother who ruins everything. In the 2003 series, Raph and Mikey were the only ones with this dynamic because Raph has anger issues and Mikey likes poking the bear (turtle?). Despite this, Raph has shown affection towards Mikey and cares for all his brothers. Like when Mikey was pretending to be hurt in The Shredder Strikes and Raph was trying to comfort him. He never outright came off like he hated him, Mikey was just his annoying younger brother.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Turo602

I don't know if I buy that. Everyone in the 2012 series kinda treated Mikey like the autistic little brother who ruins everything. In the 2003 series, Raph and Mikey were the only ones with this dynamic because Raph has anger issues and Mikey likes poking the bear (turtle?). Despite this, Raph has shown affection towards Mikey and cares for all his brothers. Like when Mikey was pretending to be hurt in The Shredder Strikes and Raph was trying to comfort him. He never outright came off like he hated him, Mikey was just his annoying younger brother.

Well, after season 2 of the 2012 series, they started to show Mikey a little more respect thanks to April, who berated them for not appreciating him enough in “The Croaking”. In fact they all grew as characters as the series progressed, including Mikey (maybe not as much as the others did, lol).

“He never outright came off like he hated him?” Uh…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyKIrZ1E8kU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ByaNGrVOs

And in the last video, Raph could’ve seriously hurt Mikey with those sais which he was swinging like a madman (er turtle). And over what? A game?

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

“He never outright came off like he hated him?” Uh…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyKIrZ1E8kU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ByaNGrVOs

And in the last video, Raph could’ve seriously hurt Mikey with those sais which he was swinging like a madman (er turtle). And for what? A game?

First clip is literally Raph not being able to control his anger which has always been a character flaw of his. Nothing to do with their relationship personally and he even apologizes to him later in the episode. 2nd clip is Mikey exploiting Raph's anger to make him sloppy and tired and they were both safe from any real danger since they were competing in the battle nexus.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Turo602

First clip is literally Raph not being able to control his anger which has always been a character flaw of his. Nothing to do with their relationship personally. 2nd clip is Mikey exploiting Raph's anger to make him sloppy and tired and they were both safe from any real danger since they were competing in the battle nexus.

1.) Has Raph ever shown such viciousness toward any other brother when he was angry? Maybe once, toward Leo in the SAINW episode, but technically that doesn’t count since it was in another dimension.

2.) Even if they weren’t in any real danger, the fact that Raph was trying to stab his own brother with such viciousness is disturbing enough. That’s kind of like having a fantasy of killing the person you dislike or hate, even if you don’t ever end up actually doing it. Even family members feel like murdering each other sometimes if they are angry enough.

Yes, Mikey has acted like an annoying little brother to Raph many times. Yes, Raph has anger issues. But who tries to murder his own brother just because he’s annoying? A psycho, that’s who.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

1.) Has Raph ever shown such viciousness toward any other brother when he was angry? Maybe once, toward Leo in the SAINW episode, but technically that doesn’t count since it was in another dimension.

2.) Even if they weren’t in any real danger, the fact that Raph was trying to stab his own brother with such viciousness is disturbing enough. That’s kind of like having a fantasy of killing the person you dislike or hate, even if you don’t ever end up actually doing it. Even family members feel like murdering each other sometimes if they are angry enough.

Yes, Mikey has acted like an annoying little brother to Raph many times. Yes, Raph has anger issues. But who tries to murder his own brother just because he’s annoying? A psycho, that’s who.

1. Why would he? This happened very early in the show and if he didn't learn his lesson the first time, he'd just be an idiot. The character loves his brothers and is usually depicted as the more emotional of the group because he has such strong feelings he can't control, including love.

2. Your whole point is literally negated by the fact that neither one of them were in any actual danger. They both knew this going into it and Raph felt like he had something to prove. It's a competition plain and simple.

[Sumac]

Donatello - smart, pacifistic and compassionate, my favorite combination;

Leonardo - spiritual and cool;

Raphael - immature annoying bully and sometimes an idiot, but has his good moments, also gets better as the series goes;

Michelangelo - annoying idiot most of the time;

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Turo602

1. Why would he? This happened very early in the show and if he didn't learn his lesson the first time, he'd just be an idiot. The character loves his brothers and is usually depicted as the more emotional of the group because he has such strong feelings he can't control, including love.

2. Your whole point is literally negated by the fact that neither one of them were in any actual danger. They both knew this going into it and Raph felt like he had something to prove. It's a competition plain and simple.

1.) Has Raph ever hugged Mikey? Or at least gave him an affectionate pat on the head or shoulder? Any affection at all (when Mikey wasn’t “dying”)? He’s hugged Donny before, he’s even shed tears for Leo. But he never did any of those things for Mikey. Does he love Mikey? Sure he does; that’s his little brother. But he’s still a big d**k to him. An unstable d**k at that.

2.) Again, he was stabbing at Mikey. You’re dismissing that important detail. Again, murdering fantasy. Say you were in a virtual video game and your opponent looked exactly like a family member or friend. Would you point your gun at them or stab them with a sword? No, because even though you know it’s not real, you hate the idea of hurting them. Raph? He wanted to “hurt” Mikey. This wasn’t just about winning the game; this was about getting back at Mikey for all the crap he’s pulled. You heard it right out of Raph’s own mouth, “I am so gonna enjoy this. We’re talking a lifetime’s worth of getbacks here.” And the way he said it sounded a little…sadistic.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

1.) Has Raph ever hugged Mikey? Or at least gave him an affectionate pat on the head or shoulder? Any affection at all (when Mikey wasn’t “dying”)? He’s hugged Donny before, he’s even shed tears for Leo. But he never did any of those things for Mikey. Does he love Mikey? Sure he does; that’s his little brother. But he’s still a big d**k to him. An unstable d**k at that.

2.) Again, he was stabbing at Mikey. You’re dismissing that important detail. Again, murdering fantasy. Say you were in a virtual video game and your opponent looked exactly like a family member or friend. Would you point your gun at them or stab them with a sword? No, because even though you know it’s not real, you hate the idea of hurting them. Raph? He wanted to “hurt” Mikey. This wasn’t just about winning the game; this was about getting back at Mikey for all the crap he’s pulled. You heard it right out of Raph’s own mouth, “I am so gonna enjoy this. We’re talking a lifetime’s worth of getbacks here.” And the way he said it sounded a little…sadistic.

1. I don't understand why hugging him is important.

2. Yes, I would, because it's funny. You're honestly more concerned about anything Raph has ever done to Mikey than Mikey ever was because you're making a far bigger deal about it than necessary. The fact that Raph feels he's making up for a lifetime's worth of Mikey's sh*t means Mikey had it coming. You don't f*ck with a guy and then vilify him for retaliating. Mikey is just as much of a dick as Raph is. It's a 2 way street and a typical brotherly dynamic that you're trying to turn into something it never was.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Turo602

1. I don't understand why hugging him is important.

2. Yes, I would, because it's funny. You're honestly more concerned about anything Raph has ever done to Mikey than Mikey ever was because you're making a far bigger deal about it than necessary. The fact that Raph feels he's making up for a lifetime's worth of Mikey's sh*t means Mikey had it coming. You don't f*ck with a guy and then vilify him for retaliating. Mikey is just as much of a dick as Raph is. It's a 2 way street and a typical brotherly dynamic that you're trying to turn into something it never was.

1. I said any form of affection including hugging, when Mikey wasn’t “dying”. You said it yourself, he’s “the more emotional of the group because he has such strong feelings he can't control, including love”. Of course, you’re a guy so I get why hugging is not a big deal to you. (Unless that’s just a male stereotype)

2. …um, no, it’s not funny. Not even the slightest. But at least you admitted that Raph is in fact a d**k. That we can both agree on.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

1. I said any form of affection including hugging, when Mikey wasn’t “dying”. You said it yourself, he’s “the more emotional of the group because he has such strong feelings he can't control, including love”. Of course, you’re a guy so I get why hugging is not a big deal to you. (Unless that’s just a male stereotype)

2. …um, no, it’s not funny. Not even the slightest. But at least you admitted that Raph is in fact a d**k. That we can both agree on.

If you haven't grasped Raph’s character yet, then I don't know what to tell you. But it's not like he goes around hugging everyone. Even when Leo was hurt, he was talking trash about him to try and mask his emotions but he broke which is why the tears came out.

It's funny if you have a sense of humor. Games are games. It's not like killing people in video games makes you a killer. But yes, Raph can be a dick, but so can Mikey and in doing so, brings a lot of the abuse on himself.