TMNT Shredder in Hell #5 Preview & Discussion

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by daggio

I was thinking that at first, but he almost seems happy that he thought Earth was destroyed. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting, idk.

Um, I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting. Dude was crapping his pants terrified.

[daggio]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Um, I'm pretty sure you're misinterpreting. Dude was crapping his pants terrified.

And I'm sure that was multiplied twenty times having to witness two giant godlike creatures fighting

[CyberCubed]

The imp also told the soldier that the war was over, likely meaning the conclusion of city at war. They said time moves differently in this afterlife so all things could be happening at different times in the real world. Seems like the EPF soldier just got unlucky and got killed by a Foot Soldier or mutant or whatever.

[daggio]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The imp also told the soldier that the war was over, likely meaning the conclusion of city at war. They said time moves differently in this afterlife so all things could be happening at different times in the real world. Seems like the EPF soldier just got unlucky and got killed by a Foot Soldier or mutant or whatever.

Yeah, talk about time passing differently...Shredder just got help from Yoshi in the first 4 parts evidently after Yoshi had died, now he gets help from Yoshi before he dies

Wow, one of my predictions was actually right. Dope.

Stellar art as always. To be completely honest, the story of this mini hasn't worked for me, which is surprising since I was completely on-board with it during the first issue. A lot of stuff happened, but like, it usually revolved around things I had no emotional attachment to, or it answered questions I never found myself asking. Like, at first I thought this mini would be about making people interested in the mystic elements of the run, but instead it relied on people already caring about them. Aka's death was pretty cool, but let's be honest here, show of hands... who here ACTUALLY cared about her?

I had also hoped the story would actually be about Saki's redemption. And, while it was to some degree, I genuinely felt like Saki completed his entire road to redemption except for the very last step or two in the first issue, and spent the rest of its run just spinning around in one place.

I really don't like being a buzzkill but I just think the only thing of quality here is the art. I understand I might be in the minority on this but i personally just hope the Pantheon are out of the picture post-#100 because I have absolutely no interest in them and think they've easily been the biggest misstep of this whole run.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Igglet

Wow, one of my predictions was actually right. Dope.

What was yours? I remember predicting there would some sort of sacrifice involved in bringing the Dragon back, but I figured it would be Karai and not Aka.

This issue made Kitsune a lot more interesting in my eyes.

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

What was yours? I remember predicting there would some sort of sacrifice involved in bringing the Dragon back, but I figured it would be Karai and not Aka.

This issue made Kitsune a lot more interesting in my eyes."

Mine was that afterlife transcended time, so the Splinter guiding Saki was actually post-death Splinter. I guess it's still not 100% confirmed but I'd say it's as close as you can get.

[neatoman]

Anybody thinking the skull will have a role to play?

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Anybody thinking the skull will have a role to play?

Quite likely, even if it's merely symbolic.

[Utrommaniac]

Spoiler:

Huh, I'd thought about imagining the Dragon Lord with Keith David's Goliath voice, and then that was validated. Nice.

So much for the Phoenix being her mother though, so...great.

[CyberCubed]

So it is supposed to be creepy Kitsune loves both Shredder and her father, and now they're in the same body? Like...what? Is this some sort of incest thing?

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

So it is supposed to be creepy Kitsune loves both Shredder and her father, and now they're in the same body? Like...what? Is this some sort of incest thing?

Kitsune is Melisandre (resurrected with fire... nice...) and Cersei rolled into one.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

So it is supposed to be creepy Kitsune loves both Shredder and her father, and now they're in the same body? Like...what? Is this some sort of incest thing?

It's all the rage these days, VanillaCubed. All the Lannister kids are doing it.

Originally Posted by Igglet

To be completely honest, the story of this mini hasn't worked for me, which is surprising since I was completely on-board with it during the first issue.

Aka's death was pretty cool, but let's be honest here, show of hands... who here ACTUALLY cared about her?

I had also hoped the story would actually be about Saki's redemption. And, while it was to some degree, I genuinely felt like Saki completed his entire road to redemption except for the very last step or two in the first issue, and spent the rest of its run just spinning around in one place.

I really don't like being a buzzkill but I just think the only thing of quality here is the art. I understand I might be in the minority on this but i personally just hope the Pantheon are out of the picture post-#100 because I have absolutely no interest in them and think they've easily been the biggest misstep of this whole run.

I feel ya. That and the terrible release schedule really killed my buzz for the mini-series.

The first issue or two was great, but it just got... weird? And not bad weird, but like Morrison levels of "what is even happening and why is this still going" weird. I feel like this mini-series should have been cut by an issue, maybe even two, and it would have provided a more concise and engaging story.

Aka getting killed was her at her most interesting.

The Pantheon in general has bored me, but I do like Rat King and Kitsune both independently (even if their storylines have dragged on and on and on). And, of course, Toad Baron.

If I can keep those three characters and lose the rest of the Pantheon, I'd be fine. But having the Rat King so overpowered and so detached from stories is a huge misstep if you ask me. Bring him down a level or five, involve him more directly, and let stuff get creepy.

[CyberCubed]

Kitsune and Rat King are two of my favorite characters of the book, and of course Toad Baron, but yeah the rest of the Pantheon is a mixed bag. But that's mainly because they hardly get any screentime. Jagwar has still to date never gotten a spotlight or solo issue, Manmoth only got 1, and Gothano was just briefly touched upon. And Aka was just there as a weird ally but never did much.

But as long as Rat King and Kitsune continue to be up to mischief, I'm fine with it.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I feel ya. That and the terrible release schedule really killed my buzz for the mini-series.

The first issue or two was great, but it just got... weird? And not bad weird, but like Morrison levels of "what is even happening and why is this still going" weird. I feel like this mini-series should have been cut by an issue, maybe even two, and it would have provided a more concise and engaging story.

Aka getting killed was her at her most interesting.

The Pantheon in general has bored me, but I do like Rat King and Kitsune both independently (even if their storylines have dragged on and on and on). And, of course, Toad Baron.

If I can keep those three characters and lose the rest of the Pantheon, I'd be fine. But having the Rat King so overpowered and so detached from stories is a huge misstep if you ask me. Bring him down a level or five, involve him more directly, and let stuff get creepy.

Ditto on pretty much everything you said, I agree wholeheartedly. Rat King's got so much potential, and yet his role basically boils down to him being a looming threat, even in his own arc. I mean, the same can be said about most of the Pantheon, honestly. The story TELLS us they're supposed to be a big deal and has a habit of repeating it over and over again, and yet they don't give us actual reasons to be afraid of them. The first time the Dragon appeared, the big bad, the most powerful entity in the IDW TMNT universe, he got into a fist fight with a shapeshifting Shredder. That's not how you make him seem intimidating.

You know what's funny? I think the only time a member of the Pantheon was done right was in the Ghostbusters crossover, which is really sad. And also, Toad Baron. Toad Baron was done really well in my opinion.

EDIT: I also really like Gothano, but he hasn't been relevant in the story yet so there's no way to know if he'd actually be compelling if he popped up more than twice.

Also, I'm sorry to whine and moan again, but does anyone else feel like the Pantheon was forced into City at War just because the team thought they HAD to shove them in there? I genuinely believe they do not fit into this at all, and that the story would've been far, FAR more compelling without them.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Igglet

Also, I'm sorry to whine and moan again, but does anyone else feel like the Pantheon was forced into City at War just because the team thought they HAD to shove them in there? I genuinely believe they do not fit into this at all, and that the story would've been far, FAR more compelling without them.

Also agreed. The Dragon bursting out to, I guess, unite all the warring factions seems... interesting. Like maybe it'll be good, but it feel really, really weird.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Igglet

Also, I'm sorry to whine and moan again, but does anyone else feel like the Pantheon was forced into City at War just because the team thought they HAD to shove them in there? I genuinely believe they do not fit into this at all, and that the story would've been far, FAR more compelling without them.

No, this was the climax of the arc. Kitsune bringing back Shredder is what this arc was majorly about. Otherwise it would just be Karai and Bishop forces going against each other.

Also Rat King was likely included to be a nod toward Ratking and Splinter interacting in Mirage’s City at War.

[hypered1]

One thing I've realized us that Kitsune's betrayal is her revenge for Aka giving April a magic feather to break her hold over Alopex back in issue #60.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

No, this was the climax of the arc. Kitsune bringing back Shredder is what this arc was majorly about. Otherwise it would just be Karai and Bishop forces going against each other.

Also Rat King was likely included to be a nod toward Ratking and Splinter interacting in Mirage’s City at War.

A climax that was absolutely undeserved, without a proper buildup, leading to what I found to be a genuinely comical hijacking of the story by Kitsune. No, the arc would not have just ended with the Foot Clan and EPF battle going on in #99. The fact that, by removing the Pantheon, you would be left with that is simply a matter of circumstances - circumstances that the writers themselves are responsible for. Of course, if the story wasn't leading towards this moment, it would've unfolded far differently. The point is that it should not have led towards this moment, or if it did, the road towards it should have been far different, as the way the Pantheon was integrated into the story was, in my personal opinion, outright bad.

The fact that Rat King was included as a homage doesn't make it any better whatsoever. If something that takes up a significant portion of a very important arc has no purpose in it other than as homage, then leave it out. It feels cheap and hollow.

I realize I'm being very harsh, but I genuinely don't have any ill intent and wish all the best to the whole team, I think the work they've done on this run is great, which is why I'm even putting in the effort to write these rants. No hate towards anyone who's enjoying this either, I just disagree with the points raised here.