Where would you place TMNT in the world of pop culture?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Biker Mice From Mars wasn't really popular from what I remember. For a while TMNT's biggest contender was Captain Planet until the latter and TMNT started to fall behind Power Rangers. DBZ never really registered apart in some Euro countries like Portugal and France (I think).

It may be slightly more popular now but it wasn't when I was growing up. Never saw the cartoon advertised, never saw a tie-in video game, nothing.

Biker Mice were popular in Portugal for a while. Most people of my generation(born in 1989-1992) remember watching it when they were kids and having action figures of them.

Eh, really? I thought DBZ was the most well known anime on the planet alongside Pokémon? I mean, who doesn't even know DBZ? It's one of those few anime everyone watches at some point even if they're not into anime. Thought that was a global thing? I know that DBZ at least was hue in USA and Latin America.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Was Captain Planet a major hit in Portugal? It wasn't much of that in Sweden.

Captain Planet?! Was that even a popular thing?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Captain Planet?! Was that even a popular thing?

It aired for six seasons, so I guess it was.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Was Captain Planet a major hit in Portugal? It wasn't much of that in Sweden.

It was almost as big as TMNT in the UK to begin with. In America it was massive as well and had a lot of merchandise from what I understand.

Originally Posted by Prowler

Biker Mice were popular in Portugal for a while. Most people of my generation(born in 1989-1992) remember watching it when they were kids and having action figures of them.

Didn't get much exposure in the UK, in the US it did okay but not great.

Originally Posted by Prowler

Eh, really? I thought DBZ was the most well known anime on the planet alongside Pokémon? I mean, who doesn't even know DBZ? It's one of those few anime everyone watches at some point even if they're not into anime. Thought that was a global thing? I know that DBZ at least was hue in USA and Latin America.

Nah. It was never shown on terrestrial TV where everybody could see it so by default it had limited exposure. I would imagine it would be difficult for kids to get into due to the level of violence and crazy humour. Today I still don't see any UK TV shows or news reports mentioning DBZ as a household name the same way TMNT or Pokemon is. Pokemon is definitely popular where I live, DBZ isn't at all. It's niche and did not register in popularity over here.

Originally Posted by Prowler

Captain Planet?! Was that even a popular thing?

Latest six seasons, is one of the most popular shows produced by Ted Turner, still has charities related to the cartoon today and back then it was pretty big in the UK. Captain Planet as a phenomenon kind of gets lost in between TMNT and Power Rangers.

[Chabrendeki]

At it's peak of popularity around 1990-92 TMNT was the biggest. DBZ was at it's own peak nothing even close.

How about this:

The popularity of a franchise isn't a constant. First of all it must have a first wave of popularity, when it gains acknowledgment and get's known. The Turtles had this in the 90's.

But that's not enough.

The brand must be reinvented over and over - and this reinventions must gain popularity too. Because that first wave will fade. There must be other waves too.

Batman, Spider-Man, Looney Toones had already more international succesful waves.

How many had TMNT?

I think just one really big (the first one), and some little ones. There was a second bigger wave withe the 2012-series and the first PD movie and the IDW comic - all released within few years and targeting different audiences (kids with the show, older kids and young adults with the comic, and all ages with the movie - very similar in the approach to the first wave of the franchise: Mirage-comics, FW-cartoon, 1990-movie).
But it didn't had the same impact like the first: first of all, because the movie was awful, and secondly because there are far more kid's shows now like in 1987, so the animation couldn't had the same big impact.

The other problem: most people look at TMNT as a kid's franchise, because the biggest succeses were always the animated shows.

Marvel, DC or SW already managed it to make the franchise attractive to all ages. TMNT has to go with nostalgia to attract the same audience. Or at least the owners of the franchise think they have to.

I think TMNT has the potential to be on the same level of popularity like Marvel or DC or SW. It already was once.

The future of TMNT is in a succesful new live-action movie or live-action TV-series, that present TMNT to new audiences and not just to kids.

[CyberCubed]

TMNT won't ever reach the permanent heights of DC, Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, or Japanese franchises like Pokemon, Dragonball Z, etc.

But that's ok. TMNT doesn't need to be huge to continue. We're about to have the 4th TMNT cartoon debut and the IDW comics are continuing with no signs of slowing down. It feels like the only thing TMNT is lacking is a new major movie franchise, obviously because the Michael Bay movies bombed, but that's it.

I mean the fact that the franchise is officially 30+ years old and it still has NEW series airing and comics going says a lot in itself. Back in the late 90's we thought TMNT was pretty much dying forever. I never would have imagined it'd still be going on in the modern year of 2018 when we were in 1999.

[Chabrendeki]

Perhaps the new series will be followed with a movie reboot too in a couple of years, and let's hope this time it will be a hit.

[Plasticplayhouse]

there are so many popular toy/cartoon/nostalgic lines out there, its really hard to accurately place them. I would say they make the top 100 list easily though.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

TMNT won't ever reach the permanent heights of DC, Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, or Japanese franchises like Pokemon, Dragonball Z, etc.

But that's ok. TMNT doesn't need to be huge to continue. We're about to have the 4th TMNT cartoon debut and the IDW comics are continuing with no signs of slowing down. It feels like the only thing TMNT is lacking is a new major movie franchise, obviously because the Michael Bay movies bombed, but that's it.

I mean the fact that the franchise is officially 30+ years old and it still has NEW series airing and comics going says a lot in itself. Back in the late 90's we thought TMNT was pretty much dying forever. I never would have imagined it'd still be going on in the modern year of 2018 when we were in 1999.

Yeah, TMNT doesn't need to be as big as Star Wars, Pokémon, Batman, etc.

As for DBZ... well I know DBZ Kai came out a few years ago, but before that was there any Dragon Ball stuff at all between the end of GT and the beginning of DBZ Kai? As in manga and anime? Because DBZ never stopped having video games and merch being made out of it. Hell, I remember DBZ being called "the biggest cash cow ever" at some point.

I remember some of my HS classmates raving about the DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi games.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Yeah, TMNT doesn't need to be as big as Star Wars, Pokémon, Batman, etc.

As for DBZ... well I know DBZ Kai came out a few years ago, but before that was there any Dragon Ball stuff at all between the end of GT and the beginning of DBZ Kai? As in manga and anime? Because DBZ never stopped having video games and merch being made out of it. Hell, I remember DBZ being called "the biggest cash cow ever" at some point.

I remember some of my HS classmates raving about the DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi games.

Well, thanks to them screwing up the dub the first, and second time around, they were able to continue to re-release the series during that time. They would release all of Dragonball on DVDs. They'd release DBZ Ultimate Uncut, then the Dragonboxes, as well as releasing the 'lost episodes' of GT which Funi purposely skipped so I wouldn't really call those lost.... and then of course Kai would come out and we'd have Kai releases. DBZ never stopped being released in some way shape or form, and the games would keep popping out like Cell Jrs.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Well, thanks to them screwing up the dub the first, and second time around, they were able to continue to re-release the series during that time. They would release all of Dragonball on DVDs. They'd release DBZ Ultimate Uncut, then the Dragonboxes, as well as releasing the 'lost episodes' of GT which Funi purposely skipped so I wouldn't really call those lost.... and then of course Kai would come out and we'd have Kai releases. DBZ never stopped being released in some way shape or form, and the games would keep popping out like Cell Jrs.

Speaking of GT... I notice that the Dragon Ball series that gets the most love is Z. A ton of DB fans seem to dislike GT. Also, no one seems to remember the original Dragon Ball series. In that one Goku was a kid wasn't he?

[CyberCubed]

The original Dragonball is very popular, and many prefer it plot-wise over DBZ because it focused more on adventure/humor and less on power levels. The problem is since most dubs skipped over it to air DBZ first, the west views Dragonball as a "prequel series" even though it's not. It's the first series, and all the characters are introduced and events tie directly into DBZ.

For example once you transition into the Saiyan saga and see Yamcha, Tien, Chaiotzu, Piccolo, etc. all die against Nappa...the impact is lost unless you watched Dragonball first. For those who started in DBZ you barely knew those characters, or why Piccolo would sacrifice himself, but if you watch Dragonball and then realize all the human characters you watched for 150 episodes were completely outclassed and devastated by these Saiyan aliens, it's a much bigger impact.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The original Dragonball is very popular, and many prefer it plot-wise over DBZ because it focused more on adventure/humor and less on power levels. The problem is since most dubs skipped over it to air DBZ first, the west views Dragonball as a "prequel series" even though it's not. It's the first series, and all the characters are introduced and events tie directly into DBZ.

For example once you transition into the Saiyan saga and see Yamcha, Tien, Chaiotzu, Piccolo, etc. all die against Nappa...the impact is lost unless you watched Dragonball first. For those who started in DBZ you barely knew those characters, or why Piccolo would sacrifice himself, but if you watch Dragonball and then realize all the human characters you watched for 150 episodes were completely outclassed and devastated by these Saiyan aliens, it's a much bigger impact.

I see. the 3 DB series aired in my country, and Kai is also airing. All dubbed.

I must be one of the few people in my country that isn't really a DB fan. It's like everyone born between 1980 and 1994 here loves the franchise. It's weird.

I saw some eps when it was rerunning on cable back in the mid-2000s but that's it. I can see the appeal I guess, but cant' say I've ever been very interested in fully watching/reading it.

[CyberCubed]

Back in 2015 I marathoned all of Dragonball, DBZ and the movies/specials because Super was announced and I wanted to rewatch everything before the new series started.

I actually took a 10 year break from Dragonball. I finished watching the series overall way back in 2005 when it finished in the U.S. After that I didn't rewatch any of it for about 10 years until 2015. I usually don't go decade gaps between fandoms I like, but I drifted away from Dragonball entirely for nearly a decade.

I probably wouldn't have gotten back into it if Dragonball Super wasn't announced either. It's funny, I'm probably now a bigger Dragonball fan than I was back in the late 90's or early 2000's.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Back in 2015 I marathoned all of Dragonball, DBZ and the movies/specials because Super was announced and I wanted to rewatch everything before the new series started.

I actually took a 10 year break from Dragonball. I finished watching the series overall way back in 2005 when it finished in the U.S. After that I didn't rewatch any of it for about 10 years until 2015. I usually don't go decade gaps between fandoms I like, but I drifted away from Dragonball entirely for nearly a decade.

I probably wouldn't have gotten back into it if Dragonball Super wasn't announced either. It's funny, I'm probably now a bigger Dragonball fan than I was back in the late 90's or early 2000's.

And didn't that marathon burn you out of it lol? Is Super a sequle or a remake like Kai is?

Dunno, man. Asa kid in the 90s I couldn't care less about anime. I didn't even like Pokémon's anime. It wasn't until the early-mid 2000s that I started to enjoy anime. It just looked "weird" to me as a kid. I used to not like the artstyle and such. That's why I missed the DBZ train in elementary school when everyone was a huge fan of it.

[CyberCubed]

Super is a new series, takes place after the end of the the Boo saga in DBZ. It's a continuation, much like the new Star Wars movies are continuations of the old ones.

I'm not a big anime fan either outside a few series, but I guess the ones I watched when I was a kid I still have an attachment to.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Speaking of GT... I notice that the Dragon Ball series that gets the most love is Z. A ton of DB fans seem to dislike GT. Also, no one seems to remember the original Dragon Ball series. In that one Goku was a kid wasn't he?

Remember is kind of a strong word, care seems more accurate. The first two shows make up one cohesive adaptation of the manga, Z is more like episodes 154-444 of the original show than it's own thing. Even if you don't know that you're still going to figure out that Z isn't a standalone show, based on all the backstory you're just expected to know.

[Prowler]

I think the biggest problem is, TMNT's popularity and mainstream relevance is very cyclical. It comes in bursts/waves. While properties such as Star Wars, Batman, Spider-man, Mario, etc. never seem to miss a step or go into dormant state. They're always around/out there for you and the common man doesn't forget their existence ever. Remember when the 2007 CGI movie and the first Bay Turtles movie were announced? Most people thought it was a return of the TMNT... meaning they didn't know about the 2k3 and the 2012 cartoon series.

TMNT is very cyclical, and I guess that's why its cartoon series tend to last several seasons and span over 100 episodes. Because unlike Spider-Man, batman, etc. they don't feel much pressure to pump out new stuff constantly, so they can afford to start over with a totally new cartoon series some years after the previous one ended and thus get a new generation of kids interested in the Turtles. Although it seems the gap in years between TMNT cartoon series is getting smaller and smaller every time a new series comes up.